Matthew Cooke is the Vice President of Consulting Strategy at Call Box. For the past 10 years, Matt has worked with thousands of healthcare organizations to improve their strategic operations, optimize their caller experience, capitalize on marketing efforts, and streamline operational workflow. He's led numerous webinars and speaking engagements, specifically in the dental industry. Prior to his time at Call Box, Matt led project teams at Epic Systems, consulting with healthcare organizations of all sizes across the United States.
Kimeran Johnson is the Director of Client Acquisition at Scheduling Institute. For the past 15 years, Kimeran has worked with dentists and their teams to streamline processes in the practice around new patient acquisition. She helps them leverage data and training to produce greater results in marketing and team performance. Kimeran has experience in training, management and marketing. A fun fact is Kimeran trained Howard Farran’s Today’s Dental team a decade ago on the 5-Star New Patient Phone Training.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1292 - Matt Cooke
AUDIO - DUwHF #1292 - Matt Cooke
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Howard: It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Matt Cooke and Kimeran Johnson on the left is Matt he is the VP of consulting strategy at Call Box for the past ten years Matt has worked with thousands of healthcare organizations to improve their strategic operations optimizer caller experienced capitalize on marketing efforts and streamlined operational workflow, he's led numerous webinars and speaking engagements specifically in the dental industry priorities time a Call Box Matt led project teams at Epic Systems consulting with healthcare organizations of all sizes across the United States. Matt just in case they're confusing you with the blonde girl next to you Kimeran Johnson, Kimeran Johnson is a director of client acquisition as scheduling Institute and today is her 15 year anniversary at scheduling institute?
Kimeran: That's right
Howard: You think you get a cupcake or something not have to go on my show you must you must be in the timeout box for the past 15 years Kimeran has worked with dentists and their teams to streamline processes in the practice around new patient acquisition she helps them leverage data and training to produce greater results in marketing and team performance Kimeran has experience in training management marketing in fact she trained my office today's dental on their five-star new patient phone training and that was one of the best do you remember that Kimeran?
Kimeran: I sure do
Howard: You kept saying you every time I remember it was so confused very because you kept thinking I was Brad Pitt and I kept saying no I'm Howard Farran I had to get my driver's license but I'm embarrassed about that whole that because I'm my buddy dentists friend across the street Tom Mattern yep you might know Tom Mattern do you remember him?
Kimeran: I remember, yeah
Howard: He told me for like five years dude you got to get the schedule in so you got to get him and I'm just like I was trying to place implants and get bone grafting and MAGD and all this like that and I I was so amazed how your company Scheduling Institute founded by Jay Gyre I mean that that was a total new genre I mean that wasn't a me-too product he was the first guy that said you know answering the phones is pretty damn important and we're like oh well the dentist should have eight years of college the hygienist at four my assistants all went to one year of Phoenix college but oh you know the receptionist yeah we'll just hire her off the street we'll buy her a cup of Starbucks and she's good to go and then and then the reason I feel sorry for you guys I'm just being honest the reason I would never do your company because I know my dentist if I say to my dentist what would what bone graft use he knows well bonding agent he knows I mean he knows everything about doing dentistry then I'll say how many people landed on your website last month no idea how many of you called your office no idea how many people went straight to voicemail no idea and then and then he hires a marketing company and they did and they do a great job a hundred people landing on the website and ten call your office he has no idea.
Kimeran: No idea
Howard: How'd that company go they were horrible horrible and nothing happened I gave him a thousand dollars nothing happened yeah nothing happened I mean nothing happened in the cemetery last night either cuz they're all dead and I would never go into a business with dentists where they had to know anything about measuring their numbers cuz my homies know everything but their numbers the numbers is the only part they don't know which is even more bizarre because they got A's in calculus there are the only people in their town that know the difference between geometry and trig like cosine tangent me later baby I mean these it's such a weird thing where you have these doctors you know calculus geometry and trig and they don't even know how many people called their office yesterday. So what was your next worst idea beside going into a dentist answering their phones what was your backyard plan?
Kimeran: Well Howard were going to help all these people that's our plan the good news is you know right it's not that difficult to get your head wrapped around this stuff.
Howard: Well I sat in on those trainings with you and I mean I could not believe I mean I don't want to throw anybody in bus but all my girls have been with me 20 30 years so here's Dawn she's like the perfect employee and then you taped her on the phone and they said I was Invisalign and all she remembered is me saying let's try this other company well instead of Invisalign let's use another just a clear aligner but all she said is you know he used to me he doesn't do that anymore I'm like what but I had never formally sat down I had never taped her phone calls I had no and I'm even worse because the dentist across the street from me for five years Tom Mattern was saying dude you need to do this you need to do this you have no idea if it's really been good for us and it just you just exploded his practice so I'll shut up tell me what you guys are doing.
Kimeran: Yeah so Matt why don't you start because we kind of worked together on this.
Matt: We do and I can't say enough great things but the scheduling history and their programs here it's really though what we've found is it's really looking at the big picture here of making sure that not only are we looking at the trainings and the workflows and the operational procedures but how are you going to measure and manage it and our secret sauce here and one of the pieces we really like about this is is layering in technology and making sure that we're really kind of melding those two together so that we're making it easier for everybody because at the end of the day as you know Howard there's so much going on within the office and there's it's rarely a situation where the office doesn't want to do a good job it's it's just that there's so much happening how do you make it easier and we've really found that it's looking strategically at how are you training how are you building out workflows and goals for your team but also how are you getting the right tools and technology to make that, go ahead...
Kimeran: Well I think you know these guys are we're very data focused and that you know we believe anything you track improves right so right when you track but you don't necessarily get the solution to fix the problem that the data is telling you right so it's like track it know what's working and what's not working and then you know we're scheduling Institute really drives it's like teaching them what to do to fix it.
Howard: Okay well let me show you how that doesn't work though because when you track it I'll go on Matt, Matt your national Titans are four and five what are you gonna do Matt... so yeah what you don't know I mean Kimeran you been in this ballpark for fifteen years how many dentists in America today could tell you how many people called their dental office in the month of October?
Kimeran: If any not many
Howard: you're probably looking at the only one.
Kimeran: Right many of our clients for sure right so you know.
Howard: So let's back up a little bit because we haven't flying fast Matt first tell them what call box is and then Kimeran tell them what scheduling Institute is so let's started basics a lot of these listen at least a quarter of my listeners are still in dental kindergarten school so they may have a zero idea, they've never heard of this before.
Matt: No worries so no Call Box we are a provider of a variety of technological solutions to make it easier to manage what's happening on the web and on the phone and our goal and where there's a lot of synergy here and where Kimeran and I have worked closely together for a long time is that we want to be able to arm organizations with information and make it easier to gather that information because one of the biggest constraints we see across the board with our clients and we work with some of the largest DSOs in the u.s. is there's there's never enough time in the eh and how do you find out not only what is happening but how do you make that information actionable and that's really the bridge that the call box wants to help solve for.
Howard: Okay and then Kimeran what is the scheduling institute if you were only 21 years old and at AT Still University dental school in Mesa Arizona, how would you explain it?
Kimeran: So we can provide all the training team training solutions that you need around all the areas of management right so we don't do like clinical training and then coaching for doctors so we're coaching training and then we do a lot of big events where doctors and their teams can come learn about those type things right management type things but you know we really believe that human capital is like the secret right to a practice so yes marketing is important and you know yes you're building and all that but you're people or what make this machine work right and Jay Geier our founder and CEO really believes that every person has more potential than they'll ever think they have themselves so we really like to help bring out people's potential right so when we do coaching we're bringing out the doctor's greatest potential and when we do team training we're bringing out the team members greatest potential and so we're teaching them like ways to do the job they're already doing better to produce a better result but the really cool thing is like if you ask our doctors and our team members like what do you love most about working with us they're not really gonna say like the results they're gonna stay and may been like a better person right a better leader a better team member a better you know someone better to treat patients a better family member so it's really about the person right the people.
Howard: Well you tell your boss Jay Geier he on the show he was episode number 198 and that was in 2015 he had 1500 views on YouTube before we even started on YouTube I mean telling me that 10 times the reach became now but I like saying I love Jay because he he just saw this big massive void that no one was ever talking about and I was so dumb someone had to tap on my shoulder for five years before I could even see what he was talking about but I want to ask a couple specifics someone calls my someone lands on my website and they decide which is today'sdental.com so you go to today'sdental.com that's my dental office in Phoenix and then they call my office is any of that tracked in any of the over-the-counter dental practice management systems like the biggest ones are Dentrix, Eagle soft, open dental, softdent, do any of those guys trust that stuff?
Matt: Not really is the short answer there Howard because the challenge for them and any of those kind of systems that is is it's dependent on the team member entering in the information into the scheduling system so what you have a great visibility into in Dentrix and a lot of those other solutions is how many patients actually made it into the into the books and from there you can certainly track no-show rates and all of those kind of different pieces but what you're missing visibility into is is what's leaking out before it makes it to dentrix so is it when they're calling into the practice did we place that new patient on hold and they hung up before they even tried to schedule the appointment or is there some kind of behavior on the phone that my team is doing that that's not leading to the appointment even making it into dentrixs and that's really where having some type of technology to be able to kind of hone in on those kind of tee up those examples for you but also armed you with the data and information to really make those workflows that Kimeran's talking about more powerful is is really where there's a lot of synergy here that that's that's what a lot of Kim Brandeis collaboration is.
Howard: What industries in have it that when I call you my window my screen pops up, I mean what would companies are that when you call them...like when you're staying at the Marriott you call the front desk good evening Howard Fran how may I help you I mean I can tell there's a lot of places that I've called that when they answer their tea they already know who was on the phone.
Matt: Absolutely
Howard: So am I just paranoid or I mean so so why is that not in dentistry?
Matt: and it's really a matter of it's getting there and we're trying to that's part of the bridge that Kimeran and I are really trying to get out there and and hopefully your listeners today are thinking about how they can bring this technology and this approach because the honest answer is is dentistry and medical in general is a little bit behind from a phone and Technology perspective certainly there's a variety of different operational challenges as you know running a practice is not an easy undertaking by any means but part of how those those groups like Marriott and some of the others I've gotten to that place is they prioritized the investment and they've really emphasized that element of technology as a part of their strategic plan and their goals.
Howard: You know it's embarrassing for me as I I'm 50 I was born 62 this I'm 57 and most of my generation of dentist are very conservative politically and yet there's only two industries where you have to wait in line government and health care I mean when you look at everything that went it's just like you look at anything that went wrong it's always health care and government and you were like Dumb and Dumber at the bottom of every list and and it just really fries me and my conservative dentist friends to see us lumped in with those bozos I mean it just blows my mind, the United States was almost paperless in the year 2000 and yet when every time I go down to the governor of have to do something with the government of Phoenix you know the last thing my name my address is like really my I pay a million dollars a year in taxes you know my address really and then they want all these paper cards and all you know so what so obviously the dentist doesn't understand the value of this so explain the value why dentists thinks you know if I would have the greatest practice in the world I need to do the best bone graft with a noble bio care implant and why he's placing that he has no idea that three people called his office two went straight to voicemail and the other one here's out one-third of all the phone calls or answering necessary can you please hold I mean they know they know applied geometry is trig so they're not dumb so explain what they don't yet they obviously aren't seeing something.
Kimeran: I mean Howard I think to answer that and piggyback on what you were talking about earlier you know here we just believe that right your practice is a business right so I think what Jay does really well which you get and appreciate is to treat it like that so look around at some of these successful companies that you know you reference Marriott or you know Nordstrom's are you Apple right like instead of a doctor kind of head down thinking about just being a doctor what our goal is to teach doctors how to run a business right so when you start thinking of your practice as a business and you start getting you know opening your eyes to look around at successful businesses and borrow what they're doing right to your point you call the Marriott your name pops up well you know maybe that's not the extreme you're gonna go to an a practice but like what kind of experience do you have it or ritz-carlton what kind of experience do you have at Nordstrom's Starbucks whatever I mean I think you know we're seeing this this happen right treat it like a business and start doing things like a business person would do right business good businessmen write the successful ones we admire have data right they run they run these plans off data so...
Howard: So how are they together when you go in to train the front desk to answer first of all what is the politically correct term for the front desk I mean you call them receptionist you call them front desk?
Kimeran: We refer to them as the front desk team right so we've stopped front people staff we used to do staff for a long time that schedule institute.
Howard: Staphylococcus infection a staph infection or the staff in my office you know how many people work in my office?
Kimeran: How many?
Howard: About half that's a joke yeah I love puns yeah you're thinking of a number and I'd say so but so basically so you taught my office and me by the way Jay was down here a couple weeks ago and he had his executive Bunch there that was the biggest collection of multi-million dollar practices that are probably ever assembled in Phoenix Arizona and sure you can get there by doing great quality dentistry but anyway they're there they're doing great business and if you do great business you have a million dollar practice and you may or may not be a good dentist but you can be the best dentist in town and go broke and so I get that so you guys are working together so what they want to train office so then you go in and install the call box technology and is that is it boy is it phone over the internet how does how does call I mean you're in like 50,000 different businesses how do you actually technically do it and what does it cost?
Matt: Absolutely so we are and call box works across a variety of industries medical and otherwise and in the medical space we tend to be more in the DSO and larger scale arena si is a fantastic product call tracker that is really a great solution for single practices and the key part of this technology is it can sit right on top of your phone system and that's part of what makes it so easy to install so easy to get running is that we use technology called tracking lines and what that allows us to do is capture what's happening on the phone and feed that through a team of human reviewers and that's what's uniquely different than a lot of other solutions out there is that we're really listening to what's happening on those calls to tee up the analytics and the feedback of what's happening on the phone so that it makes it easier to really work into those pieces that Kimeran's talking about around the workflows and the information to run a business you're now able to make informed decisions with data and that's really where we're our solution technologically can help businesses pricing wise it's really all over the map it depends on the size of the group and the scale of what what is being reviewed as you know really no two practices are identical so we certainly do take that into account when looking at the engagement.
Howard: Seems like when you say you work with individual offices and dsos I would imagine that a certain size of a DSO they would bring all this in-house and have their own call center and their own technology where, what size of DSOs are you still helping before they bring this all in-house like for instance Heartland has their own call center and Effingham Illinois and Rick told me that the only limit to its growth is heart is Effingham Illinois only a town of 10,000 he said I've hired every single person without a job in Effingham to work my call center because he knows how important that is he's also the only dentist in the world who's what you call a billionaire and he hasn't worked on teeth for 25 years he mastered the business of dentistry so now is this something where Heartland uses call box or does Heartland do all this in themselves?
Matt: Heartland does utilize call box funny enough I was actually in Effingham a couple weeks ago and I can say certainly I think I prefer Atlanta a little bit more but definitely the challenge for large DSO is is that there's certainly pieces that make sense to bring in-house leveraging there's a lot of great call center products out there Cisco is one that I'm a big fan of but what's different about that is that's really handling the logistics of how do you operate the call center so that's looking at the actual hardware itself of how the phone's the cueing the the different pieces of getting a call from into the call center all the way to agent Matt what Call Box really focuses on is is we want to bridge the gap for them around what's happening on those calls where are those calls coming from is it from marketing efforts so tying that information back to the Heartland marketing team or is it more on the operational side of understanding that when I spend ten million dollars on a Invisalign campaign in the northwest here's what the impact is going to be in the call center so arming them with that information is really where call boxes niches therefore for a group like a Heartland and they've actually that a longtime client I definitely enjoy that enjoy working with them closely.
Howard: My warmest memory of Effingham was I loved it's only like ten thousand people is when I was at the McDonald's and they were and I overheard them talking about how they had a new grill that cooked the top of the hamburger and the bottom of the hamburger and I said oh my god my dad was in Sonic drive-ins I would care to go back there and make my own damn hamburger and the manager says well then come back and make your own damn hamburger and and you can't do that in LA, you can't do that in Atlanta there probably be some and I got to go back in that deal lay the patties on the grill push a button and then the top girl came down so it cooked the bottom the top and held its shape and I just love them down-home down earth people you know if you were to ask that in Phoenix oh I come back there are they probably gonna give me some big legal answer about you know some well the lawyers said but anyway so your basically yours is all a software app I mean do you even mad you even need to go to the office when someone starts working with the call box is this all over the phone long distance or is the schedule Institut two people the ones that go in or how's this work?
Matt: It really depends on the engagement I'm a huge believer of avoiding cookie cutter designs on projects and and certainly it depends on what their goals and objectives are for for example for Heartland will will be there very regularly working with all kinds of operational teams ranging from marketing to the call center but it really is it goes back to Kimeran's point earlier it depends on what's going to be actionable for you and as you look at as a practice owner as a DSO owner or really wherever your stage of organization is what's the information that's going to move the needle for you and make your day easier and allow you to accomplish some of the pieces that Kimeran was talking about here and that's really where Kimeran I have worked closely over the years is I'm a huge believer of what the scheduling institute it just really teaches and how they're looking at the whole element of running it as a business and thinking about where data fits with that and that's why when we have engaged together it's been one that there's a lot of synergy here of really workflows work better with information.
Kimeran: Well and we'll get you know Howard we'll get people who call and say like I need new patients right but they to your point don't know if their phones ringing right they think that they just need to make the phone ring more right so what we're always able to uncover is if they have them if they have tracking then we can pick that data up tell them exactly what's happening and then go right in and fix it because we know exactly what to train on right if they don't have that data then our advice is right you mentioned a lot of your listeners or younger doctors right they don't know what to do first it's make sure your team's trained first right it's like making sure there's a bottom to the bucket then pour money into marketing right you pour money into marketing before your team's trained it's like you said earlier it's just like opening the window and letting money fly out if you have that team trained at your foundation right then you start marketing a little bit you use a tracking system so that you know immediately what's working and what's not working you're not taking risks right you're spending money and marketing you've got that safety net then your data is telling you exactly what marketing is working or not it's like the perfect little machine that should just give a doctor tons of confidence around marketing and conversion on the phone.
Matt: Absolutely and all of those pieces are super important together and and that's that's where I cannot agree more is doing only one of the three you're not gonna get the list it's you have to really think about how am I by training and teaching my team how do I have the data analytics to know what's working and then how am I building to work flows to lead to the outcomes we want which is ultimately helping the patient if there's...
Howard: You said one of the three what are what are the three?
Matt: I would say it's the I would say it's the thinking about the training workflows and how you're gonna have be teaching your team what to do there the data and analytics of what's working and where is their opportunity and then the operational workflows around making sure that you're driving the outcomes you're looking for which is ultimately helping the patient.
Howard: Okay I don't think a 21 year old dental school knows what a operational workflow is.
Matt: Fair enough so thinking about when when someone calls in how are you making sure that when that person calls in you're not only just answering their questions but you're helping them book that appointment for you so taking about the what do I say what do I do so that when I call into your practice asking if if you do Invisalign the response there is is not oh no, he doesn't do that anymore, I'm now actually going to know what I should be saying and that's because there's a manager there that that is helping train and teach their team with the data that's showing where they need to be improving or in many places celebrating success.
Howard: Well you know what I am you know what I think would be the coolest thing that you guys could do is for Mother's Day which is on May 10th I don't know when Father's Day as my father passed away well Google Month Mother's Day is a Father's Day June is you ought to do a a gift for Mother's Day Father's Day were you know when I'm in these dental schools a quarter of the class their mom or dad is a dentist and you could really be your mom's hero for Mother's Day your dad's hero for Father's Day because this is what your dad and your mom doesn't know this is what I believe the numbers are I believe the numbers are for every 100 people that land on your pathetic website or any dental website it converts about 3 to call the office three people have to call the office before your receptionist talks to one of them because the other two went to voicemail not answered whatever three people have to connect with your girl before she gets one to come in three people have to come in with the same cavity on one tooth before you can convince one of them to convert to do a filling so when we look at a dental office where they're doing 780,000 taking home an a 180,000 so your mom makes $180,000 a year and you know how she's made a hundred eighty thousand because she did one filling out of the three that came in to get the three that came in nine had to call the front desk for nine to call the front desk what is that like three hundred had to land on your website dude if you fix anything on the funnel your mom to be a millionaire so a hundred people land on the website three call I want one of you to answer that hundred people land on the website three call what up with that I mean and how do how do you even get them to know this is real they don't know it?
Matt: and that's where data comes in at the end of the day it's it's putting the real numbers in front of people and the conversation we have quite a bit with with organizations of all sizes is really centered on if you don't have a baseline it's you're shooting in the dark and that's a lot harder to get better about and it's it would be the equivalent of trying to do the procedures that you do on a daily basis with your eyes blindfolded you wouldn't do it and and that's really what we want organisations to really think about is that without looking at the data and without collecting the data to take action on it you're it's the equivalent of trying to do a tooth drilling blindfolded.
HowardL Are you telling me that Stevie Wonder can't be a dentist?
Matt: I would say I don't think Stevie Wonder's doing anything with teeth.
Kimeran: I'm not going to him.
Howard: I feel sorry I actually I always wonder the Stevie Wonder is only blind because they had just came out with the incubator and the atmosphere is 20.9% oxygen so of course somebody thought well 20.9% auctions good a hundred is even better so it blinded like twenty kids before they figured out that was a bad idea but i always think if stevie wouldn't have been and the first twenty incubators and he can't vision he would have been distracted we probably never even know his name it was probably being wired the title but so that's my point the dentist listen to you they're like are you kidding my girl up front she's the best she's been on my team fifteen she was my daughter's uncles cousins grandma grand you know whatever I mean they always have this emotional relationship reason of why captain flawless is perfect at the front desk and I don't like calling him front I don't think anybody should have a job named after a piece of furniture at least call in the front chair or the front door you know why don't you just call her the front door I mean really the desk I mean I'd rather be named up to the door than the desk but how do you convince how do you convince these people that mean they have no idea that they wouldn't even know how many people end on their website I mean just little things like let you go to some websites and you see that little chat box pick up yeah well I've read stuff in great references that that can double the influence like a website that maybe gets three percent converting to call that little chat box on its own will get another three percent I've heard things that don't put still pictures put YouTube videos I put YouTube videos up on mine and the two biggest markets afraid of the dentist and afraid of the cost so I have me talking about don't be afraid of the dentist on my website and my office manager talking about don't be afraid of the cost I mean all the there's no silver bullet to get everybody to land on your website to call so there's no silver bullets it's probably about a hundred different bullets that can each get you one percent but so so they don't know how many people landed on their website so they have no idea how many converted okay so now let's go to the next that they call I am told that for every three people it takes three people to call your office for one to convert to make an appointment and we're not entire do they show or not just three incoming calls from one conversion Kimeran is that the numbers you're seen at Scheduling Institute or is it better than that or worse than that?
Kimeran: No it's definitely not better than that it could be worse than that I mean just some results from when we go in and fix it right so like to your point you don't know how many people are calling you don't know how many you're losing but so we do this cool thing kind of change to your question right like how do we convince these people this is important right so we do something that's and you you've seen it you talked about it right with Dawn it's kind of controversial right but it's like undeniable proof right so we mystery call and this is like a thing good businesses do right to go back to what we were saying earlier like borrow good business practices the ritz-carlton right they have shoppers patient like mystery shoppers right Nordstrom so all these companies we admire they have people like auditing the processes that are important right so we do that as part of what we do right so we do it to both help doctors who don't see it understand it's a problem right we mystery call their office we act like a new patient and we get to show them what happens when a new patient calls and the majority of the time right there floored and a lot of times really embarrassed right and then once we train with those offices to fix what was not fixed but refine how their team handles calls then we continue to do that monitoring one to show them how much better they got after training but also for that accountability to continuing to do that process the way we talk right so it's very eye-opening and important to the ongoing commitment to the process right because it's just like a diet you can decide you want to lose weight and get in shape go to a trainer for a while lose weight get in shape you get bored of going to the trainer you quit and you know it's not long before you realize you got to go back to the trainer right so you know it's just that to Matt's point it's just we can't keep reiterating it's like no the data but you got to take action on the data right and then once you take action you've got to continue to monitor the data and continue to take action on the data so like our best clients teach there I'm gonna come up with another name because now you pointed out the front desk thing and I can't get this right but their team who answers the phone right they're really like patient acquisition specialist right because the people who answer the phone are like your gatekeeper to your practice so unless I may schedule an online or walking in like they hold the key to whether that patient gets in your door right.
Howard: Yeah and they had no training I mean I mean I've lectured 1000 times in 50 countries my next lecture is in Israel I mean anybody who likes lectures you just a friend ask who's for a desk they raise your hand okay what is your job answer the phone well what else answer their questions I mean they don't know no it's to convert them from a call to a person and it chair they don't even know their basic job description and and by the way if you got all those mystery shopper calls why don't you make a one-hour bloopers video or something...
Kimeran: We totally could.
Howard: Well let's do it all, make it.
Kimeran: We totally could, that's brilliant.
Howard: Yeah Do It Yourself I'll make a podcast you send me an hour of it and me because the reason is you know when I said Dawn's name I mean she still thinks it's funny I mean you know with you you if you make people feel bad they're not gonna buy dentistry and they're not gonna work for you when you have people that still stay with you 20-30 years as a patient or a team member we didn't do that by making them feel bad you weren't you didn't do that by always being condescending Matt condescending means like when you talk down to people so yeah I wish you would I wish you'd make a mystery shopper deal because I think it's a minion so I've done this myself when I was selling you guys clients to my friends my friend to say yeah I don't know you know I think I'm gonna go to the Pankey it's always it's always there restaurants going bankrupt and they're gonna fix it by learning how to make lasagna or some new apple pie you know it's never that your foods okay but the business is horrible and I'll sit there and on my phone and I called her up I say don't say a word and then I call their office and it goes voice on it like I just left and then they answer and then when they answered I'm always like okay cuz I've called you a hundred times because you know they don't answer their cell phone I mean you don't take your cell phone with you in the operatory so you got to call the front desk and they'll sit there and it's always either go straight to voicemail or the answer can you please hold but one time the best one this is so great I said yeah I just moved here from Wichita Kansas and my last dentist right for I left said I needed four crowns and I was wondering do you do crowns and they said yeah I said well can is there any way you do all for him at the same time and she said I probably that's awesome okay well hey thanks a lot thanks running some more questions I'll talk to you later and she goes goodbye yeah you know who I am should have a lead should have a name and my staff after you train my staff thank you very little I sit there you just sneak out the back door and go home now I got a check out up front cuz you trained my girls and they're like hey you know we need you to call back Matt and Matt called and I was answering a question we didn't schedule and I don't know what he got hung up on but the main people from the scheduling Institute said you should call this person back this is a hot lead for you and then you call him back and you can tell that he's shocked we went above his expectation no dentists ever called him back and I said ain't Matt hey Dawn said you called today and you had some questions about a root canal or whatever and she feels like she feels like she didn't answer some question anyway she wanted me to call you back what exactly is your was your concern about the root canal and then it's always gonna be price the insurance pay is gonna hurt when can I return back to work if it's a girl what's it gonna look like well you know will it affect my Instagram selfie you know whatever whatever whatever and it's just it's in fact I'll always go back to say you know the easiest road to success it just always do the right thing be good and work hard I mean if you just get to work early and stay late if you're just always doing the right thing if you're just always treating people nice if you're always making them feel better that's what I like to cut up that's what I like to say jokes because I'm in a stressful profession and it's just it's so cool you know to make lighten them um I didn't feel better or whatever so back to practice manager software I know you might be biased Kimeran because you're in Atlanta and that isn't that home of Softdent and practice works.
Kimeran: Maybe maybe you'd know better than I do.
Howard: Yeah Doftdent and practice works so if she says soft it and practice works sit there and say Kimeran are you drinking buddies with some girls over there but is there any practice management software that you think is better than the others for what you do?
Matt: Well I've really...
Kimeran: We don't have an opinion about that we don't we don't deal with that on our side.
Matt: In general it depends on what you're trying to accomplish I would say I am a big fan of dentrix in general I think it's a pretty good solution out there but really it's more often than not what what truly makes a different Howard is are you using it are you entering what you're supposed to in there do you have the workflows around entering the information because most practice management software it's it's as as good as the user workflows is really what we see more often than not.
Howard: Well I want to do that bloopers video because I say my girls my girls there would be 20 years and I cannot believe what people say second all I want to tell you this that there's a lot of good data that when they just put the camera over the cash register embezzling dropped 99% I mean humans aren't dumb they're not gonna they're not going to steal money at the cash register when you're filming I mean you do things in your bathroom that you wouldn't do at the kitchen table during Thanksgiving dinner you know and so what percent of dentists do you think just basic record all their phone calls I mean I can't call anybody who's publicly traded without hearing a ting this phone call may be recorded for training purposes.
Kimeram: Well and I think the important thing is what Matt just said right like you have to take action on it so something we've really been working with our clients to understand is just because you're tracking right Tracking's not training but tracking without taking action right so like we've got a people have to like pull this information out and I mean these systems are done in a way that it's you know you just look at a simple report and you've got what you need but you have to go take action on it.
Howard: How do you say it? Tracking is not training...
Kimeran: Tracking is not training and trainings not tracking that's why this is such a great you know I always say it's like a great marriage because when our trainers go in and have data from a tracking system there's so much more prepared on how to Train right I mean we have a core training program but to know what kind of data is coming in right so if a team member says like well our phone doesn't ring enough that's why we don't have enough new patients we can immediately say hey the data actually says your phone is ringing let's focus on your part of this which is conversion right so we want to make sure people understand right this is why we work so well together that just because you're tracking doesn't mean right you're fixing it right so you've got to take action on that.
Howard: So you do you guys also do mystery shopper and is the mystery shopper a mystery caller?
Kimeran: It is right so once you have a tracking system right you can you mean you're getting real calls that are coming in and recorded so the need for that mystery shopper to just hear your calls right is less but to your point right the team members so if you're a doctor and you're in this position right now what do I do well you've got to install this stuff and you've got to prove to your team members you're paying attention so if they know you're tracking but you never bring up the fact that you know their conversion rate went down or went up then like they kind of know you're not paying attention right so the other cool part about what our system does is you know we're kind of partnering and paying attention to that with you right so the trainer comes in and trains it's like one it's not the doctor telling them the same thing over and over right it's like Charlie Brown's teacher our trainers like a third party they have credibility so they're bringing these things to the team members attention right the data came out of a system that's reliable and then the trainers teaching them a process that's proven to work.
Howard: and I'm a big fan of mystery shoppers mystery colors I actually had got a job doing that currently I'm a mystery drinker report. So someone's listening I mean again I feel sorry for you because you're trying to sell a product of consulting and managing their incoming phones and the dentist knows nothing about if you were on here today saying my god I got a new sinus lift procedure and it's just it's the best sinus lift in the world they would drive all the way from Chicago to Georgia so how what are some red flags that my homies driving to work right now he's listening saying my office is cool I did a millionaire and that's another thing I don't like about the million now the average dental office it sales is 750 and they take home 180 I swear to God once that number top-line number goes over a million I'm all that I mean just look at this I do a million Kimeran what are you saying that there's something wrong with math did I not tell you I collect a million dollars a year and and then they have to drop it like during yeah I'd like to get the cheeseburger french fries did you know I collect a million dollars a year and a beer and so this guy collects a million dollars a year so there there's nothing he has no problems instead of making 180 are you kidding me I make 250 how can you tell, what are red flags that this guy still has problems at the phone and how many offices have you met Kimeran in your lifetime that collect over 2 million?
Kimeran: We actually have a lot of doctors who are well over a million right we've taken practices from under a million to multi-million right but I think it's right it's like what your Jay always says your eyes only seeing your ears only hear what your brain is looking for right so like when I think about our very best client right it's been with us probably as long as I've been here he's done everything we tell him to do right then Jay talks about he used to drive to meetings and a you know gold Camry with cloth interior no air condition and now he flies private right so but he's that guy who like when someone says hey there's an opportunity to leverage you know a team member or an asset you already have working for practice he goes he goes after that right so like you may think you're doing as good as you want to do if you want to do better right I mean that's start number one is do you want to do better than you're doing right and then take advice from people like us and you who have seen this opportunity you know I always say with the new patient thing it's like they're hiding under a rock and it's literally like between what we both do we're literally kind of picking up that rock and going see there's all those patients right so you know it's like you just have to be if you want to grow and you want to get better and you want to have a better patient experience right because that's something we haven't really talked about is like...
Howard: This is Dentistry Uncensored I want to ask that the brutal question though the one that just makes them lose sleep at night.
Kimeran: Alright
Howard: Okay so yeah you call up Matt and Kimeran and they come in they install software and training and all that kind of stuff I'm we I joked about the Titans um you know they're four and six how do you decide doc I I don't think we can train Margaret up front I mean I think I think we should start from scratch and it's so emotional in fact I'll tell you something about them I'll tell you something about embezzling, half the offices that get a dental practice right just don't have embezzling going over it that doesn't mean half the officer being embezzled because why our office is calling dental office consultants it's you know because I'm not making much money and they thank god I'm working hard and because something's wrong well that that's something half the time is someone stealing your money and it could even be your wife I mean I've seen that a half dozen times no it is where she starts embezzling and the cases I know were we're all sending it out of the country a couple dollars try either US for Canada because he was thinking about a divorce but while she was thinking about it she was flowing about six thousand a month out of out of the office and then when he found out now she you called your card and she said yeah indeed I am sick of this marriage I am gonna get it or but anyways but the reason the embezzlement is so bad is because it's always someone you trusted it's the personal violation it's God you were my child's godmother and so it's so tough because so many dentists will tell me I know I should fire her but god she's been with me twelve years she's my cousin's roommate sisters brothers mother who lived across the street from my uncles you know how do you draw the line that we can't train Margaret we need the fire Margaret and let her go that's the toughest call in businesses HR so dabble on that question.
Kimeran: Yeah it's it's definitely real right you're absolutely right I mean that is kind of part of what you get with us when you sign up so if you just take that front desk area right I mean we're gonna tell you the truth right we're kind of known for that so and I mean you get this Howard right like you tell the truth you tell people what they need to hear not necessarily what they want to hear I think right and that's always been Jay Geier s philosophy because that's what's gonna make people better right data tells you what you need to hear not what you want to hear when we go in for a training right whether it's using the data or we spend a day with a group of team members and one set like this you know and rolled her eyes the whole time we don't skirt over that right we sit down with the doctor at the end of the day and we go through his people and say hey I think you got a great team but you know Susie who sat in the back with her arm cross like I think she's gonna be a problem and we're really confident and when we give that advice because we were in 400 offices a month so like we know how to recognize these things.
Howard: So your in 400 offices a month
Kimeran: Yeah
Howard: Oh good I know my homie he knows more than you he's a dentist damnit yeah crazy I'm so...
Kimeran: We just deal with it.
Howard: Another way to ask that is if you were you deal with 400 offices a month how many of those offices do you need to fire someone?
Kimera: I don't know a number but I mean you know our trainers I bet they're encountering this monthly an individual trainer right where they either need to fire someone Howard or they need to like set that person straight right so it's the other thing we believe about you know where we blend together coaching a doctor and training a team is when we used to just do team training we kind of created problems right because we were training the team and to your point we were kind of like Jay always says training kind of shines the light on both the really great people that step up and rise to the occasion but also kind of exposes the ones who aren't really good right and so you know what we faced was the team we trained teams first so we were shining those lights well then the doctors didn't know how to manage the high performers so the high performers would they get bored right they wanted to hear a vision they wanted to know this practice was going somewhere and that they had a future then the low performers were just killing the doctors right they were just beating them down taking control so you know for that reason and others Jay had to start coaching right because these doctors needed to know how to if you're a business owner you're managing a team right you've got to keep people motivated you've got to keep them excited about the future you've got to help them get over those hurdles they face right and so that's you know that was one of the right ways coaching came to be so now we're able you know our best client has their team and ongoing training and the doctors in coaching right so nobody's ever really out ahead of anyone I mean doctors always should always kind of be out ahead of the team but when we saw a team and training and a doctor wasn't in any kind of coaching it's like a rowboat that's going in circles right and the teams like outperforming the doctor then you switch it you got a doctor in coaching but the team's not in training and then the doctors like I'm running circles around these people right so that best combination is both right they're both constantly being developed as people and as you know contributors to the growth of the practice, does that make sense?
Howard: Yeah the other problem that's so hard to do is when you get so many dentists who all have different philosophies on that like if I just take the most common questions like they're gonna call your office say yeah how much do you charge for a root canal and then I mean I have a couple alcoholic dentist friends who say never tell them the price and then my other favorite alcoholic dentists francais no we always quote the fee same thing about insurance I mean so so you got all these different dentists who have wildly opposite opinions so so I'm just gonna throw that out Kimeran you take my insurance when is your first available appointment when is your first available emergency appointment this thing's hurting like hell I can't sleep last night, how long will it take and how much is this gonna cost I mean there's about a dozen questions that they always ask and for every question they ask I can find it a dozen different drinking dentist have a different idea on how it should be answered.
Kimeran: That's right that's right we created we have like a five step system right we called the five-star call so and Jay discovered this 25 years ago in a practice he was working in where he was marketing guy right he was responsible for new patients so he was doing everything to generate new patients but it wasn't they weren't showing up on the schedule and he's good at marketing so he knew like something's not right, right so the first thing he discovered was well the team is like taking lunch breaks and cutting out early and we're closed on certain days so that was like obvious he fixed that right with a process then he realized and he by doing that he had to bring someone into kind of his physical space to get them to answer when the practice wasn't answering well while that lady was sitting in his physical space he got to listen to what she was saying right so he got to hear her just like totally to your point changing the answer every time not right like not answering, answering too much and so then he realized okay there's a you know to your point 12 questions or whatever and there's 52,000 ways to answer them but if you answer each one this certain way you'll get to the outcome you want right so he created this system it's not scripts it's like a mindset and then we teach kind of like how you handle each of the five parts of the call and so we help you understand it's not like well if they ask this say yes and if asked to say no it's like if they ask this question here's how you answer to get them to the next step and it all leads to getting them to schedule right so we're helping simplify that right they don't have to know all these answers there they're to schedule the patient so when the patient calls you move them along in the call from kind of point 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 and then they're scheduled and they deal with all that other stuff once they come in.
Matt: Absolutely no I completely agree and that's where data is so important because I I mean a key part here that I believe very much and all of the steps that Kimeran just outlined here but knowing is this happening on every call is this this is where the data is coming into play because there are different philosophies out there and then when we start working with a client I believe in what Kimeran just outlined but the data will tell you the story and that's where the technology is such a key part of not only answering that question but for all of the people just starting out out there how you'll have different opinions you'll have different theories of what's what's gonna work and what you want your practice to be but the data tells the story and the data will let you know what's working and what's where's there further optimization needed and where do you need to tweak and adjust your plan.
Howard: and it and it's very very very emotionally frustrating when yet that dentist he's got as FAGD and MAGD and he's had all these he's got the entire alphabet soup behind his name and he has seen the average to below average dentists from the dentist across the street for 20 years and that guy has a million-dollar two million dollar practice and drives an f-350 Ford pickup truck because he gets an A on the phones and he gets an A on business and the other dentist gets an F or D on the phones and the business and all that stuff but he's at the pinkie Institute every weekend and trying to get the best crown margins and I love him for it but I really respect the dentist who focuses on his profit margins and his crown margins I mean you know and the dentist who focuses on his profit margins usually can buy more toys and give a staff more raises and have more fun I mean there's nothing worse than in an office where they're trying to suck blood out of a turnip because there's there's no money and the ship is not upright and awe like I said. You guys was there anything that you want to talk about that I was not smart enough to bring up?
Kimeran: I don't think so it's good facts versus feelings right something we stay here likes that's kind of what we're talking about don't make decisions about your marketing don't make decisions about whether to fire someone based on feelings make it on facts right get the data let the data tell you what to do Jay always says use the calculator right use something that gives you the facts not the feelings.
Howard: and if they wanted to contact you guys should they go more to I callbox.com or jaygeier.com?
Matt: I would say both
Kimeran: Tracking if you don't because remember this is a this is two things that work together so for tracking Call Box, training coaching Scheduling Institute if you go on our website you can take the five star lunch hour which is you as a part of that you get that mystery called it I talked about so if you know if you don't mystery call your own office who is right will do it for you.
Howard: So underneath the takes the assessment optimize your business evaluate your life that's where you take the quiz?
Kimeran: So it says take the five star challenge
Howard: Oh the 5x challenge
Kimeran: Yeah five star challenge scheduling not Jay Geier go to schedulingInstitute.com
Howard: Oh okay I'm sorry
Kimeran: That's okay
Howard: I always go to jay geier I don't think I'm this is all new to me the schedule well why would someone go to the schedulingInstitute.com instead of jaygeier.com?
Kimeran: I mean right now jaygeier.com comes more about Jay and what he's doing right just a lot beyond he's got a lot of mission work and but scheduling institute as well we talked about today right coaching
Howard: Okay I'm so anyways so if you go to schedulinginstitute.com about scheduler our solutions free assessments five-star challenge.
Kimeran: That's right
Howard: Well you know what I would do I would sue Jay I would sue Jay I think that 5x challenge I think he's plagiarizing stealing I think he stole that from the scheduling Institute.
Kimeran: What in the world.
Howard: Did he think he was not gonna get caught and what would you say to all my friends who are listening to this show who says well the FBI is already tracking all my calls do I still need call box?
Matt: Definitely do
Howard: Okay well hey thanks so much so go to go to scheduling institute there's no than that there's a it's just scheduling institute okay take the take the five star challenge and just remember I'm gonna end the show with just this for every 100 people that land on your website only 3 convert to your deal fix that just fix that if you just fix it from 3 to 6 you just just went from a million to two million dollar for every three people to call your office she only converts one to come in fix that these people fix it for Tom and Sharren Mattern across three for me I mean you exploded their whole business and and I watched that and it still took me five years to get smart enough to get that fix that you need to record your calls you need to have someone come in every month in your office where they sit the girls around and usually it's pretty cool they'll schedule one that's just like a blooper one where everybody's like really did you say that and everybody's laughing and then the next ones is like wow really you just told someone we don't do Invisalign where does that come from and then get your get your house in order and you have to do all that before you do marketing because when you do marketing I don't care what you think of it worked at you you don't even have the availability and I'll tell you it's not just dentists I went to dinner with this lawyer guy and I don't want to say his name because everybody in town knows he has cuz he's on the back of the phone book he's on all the billboards on all the commercials and he uses the same phone number on every one and I said well how do you know that I'm calling from the Billboard the how do you know and he says I don't know I'm like you should know that you really need to know that you can't have the same phone number on every deal I mean I own eight I think before I met you I would had three and now I have I think six and so on you guys you know if you can't measure it you can't manage my marketing is all about tracking I'm you guys it was an honor for you to come on the show today do make the bloopers phone call I think that no matter how many you make me it will just about Kyle will just put them out as deals I mean this this is what your dental office is saying on the phone while your bet when I go back there to do a root canal and tomorrow you know I'll have you know seven to seven I'll probably if I'm lucky I'll probably have 4 molar root canals minimum where and when you sat down to a molar it's like Stevie Wonder I mean you're picking a lock you're in the zone you don't know where you are and the weirdest thing about a root canals you know when you sit down the next time you look up an hour gone I mean you were just gone in the zone for an hour and in that hour you have no idea who called your office and what they said and you guys could really bring it home by giving us a bloopers hour but I thank you so much for taking the time to come on my show today and talk to my homies thank you very much.
Matt: Thanks
Kimeran: Thank you Howard.
Howard: Alright have a great day