Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1329 Brant Herman on the Benefits of Teledentistry : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1329 Brant Herman on the Benefits of Teledentistry : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1/9/2020 6:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 200
Brant E. Herman, Co-Founder and CEO, is the visionary leader of MouthWatch. His overall responsibilities include product development, industry relations, strategic partnerships, and day-to-day operations. Widely known in the field of teledentistry, Brant is a frequent public speaker and author of articles in leading publications explaining the benefits of teledentistry to patients, practitioners, and policy makers. Brant is an experienced entrepreneur and grew his passion for building companies during the first Silicon Valley technology boom. He currently lives in Central New Jersey, close to the MouthWatch headquarters, with his wife, son, daughter and crazy dog.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1329 - Brant Herman

AUDIO - DUwHF #1329 - Brant Herman

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Howard: it's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Brent Herman co-founder and CEO he is the visionary leader of mouth watch which visually connects patients to care with internal cameras and teledentry solutions that bring patients providers and treatment together mouth watch develops turnkey tella dentistry intro camera solutions that allow Denison hygienist here in the United States and internationally to communicate more effectively with their patients in the dental chair or anywhere there are high quality affordable internal cameras chair sight dental viewers and ease integration with all leading dental imaging platforms but the power of internal imaging into every dental practice mouth watch is powerful teledentistry dentistry platform enables live streaming interactive and asynchronous store-and-forward consultations that improve care boost practice efficiency and increase access to dental care for patients in any location for clinics public health programs nursing homes managed care settings private practices dental schools and other health care providers tell the dentistry is the key to increase access to care and by the way if you're a new listener there's no commercials here no one pays me to get on the s have people that want to be on the show I could do a podcast every day for a year just on people on a standing on the list I actually wanted brand to come on because I'm he's one of the biggest names In tele dentistry so my viewers about a quarter of our still in dental care garden school so let's start with the basics what the heck is teladentristry

Brent Herman:  yeah thanks for asking thanks for having me on oh it's an honor buddy yeah so tele-dentistry is really we think a game-changing technology it allows providers to communicate and collaborate in really quick effective easy ways to share all the clinical data that you would normally share within a practice so it opens up opportunities for patients in different settings it can improve the referral process between the GP to a specialist it can change the way a growing practice help supervise and present treatment plans to patients so all kinds of ways once you take that digital technology you add some security around it and allow just like we're doing here a live video consult that might extend to a patient or allow you to kind of easily take all of the information from a series of appointments during the day and then when a doctor gets home they could sit review and do a treatment plan to get that patient connected into a practice and you you look at you I study you as a person you've always thought outside the box I mean you're from born and raised in New York and you decide that you're gonna go to four years of college in Sweden where the heck did that come right it hadn't been the hottest girl in your class said she's gonna go over there and study so you just followed her that makes the most sense is that what happened that was now what happened so I started a couple of years in Sonoma County in Northern California and I was studying organic chemistry and just had a bad exam and thought let's go see what else is out there applied for the international program went to Sweden for a year had a great time and studied kind of with organizational communications international communications and came back and started at the dot-com boom in San Francisco with some online auction companies and really got the bug for starting my own businesses there and it's kind of interesting

Howard:  so you might I ask how old are you now 

Brent Herman: I'm 44 so these

Howard:  young kids in dental school they didn't see the 94 to 2000 internet bubble pop y2k and then ten years after that we had the Lehman's brother and it's been another 10 years you're a smart guy been in the space for two expansions and contractions does it kind of smell like teen spirit to you does it kind of smell like 1999 again or Lehman's 

Brent Herman: I think there's a much broader acceptance of technology now I think there's smarter investment in companies that are launching technology products and it's so ubiquitous I mean I think everything they're required a browser on your Netscape navigator on your laptop that wasn't really powered enough so much is now available on your smartphone and it's just ever-present for consumers lives providers lives professionals at every turn and 

Howard: so um what if the new technology comes out say I ensigns equals mc-squared it could be positive with nuclear medicine and nuclear energy and it can be bad with bombs I'm telling us tree what is this gonna bring what's gonna be the nuclear medicine and energy out of tell dentistry and what is gonna be the scary stuff that the dentist don't like yeah 

Brent Herman: it's a great question so I think what we see is the term teller dentistry talking about it in that way in ten years we think that's going to disappear we think it's really going to become so integral and integrated into how a practice operates that considering it this different technological approach is gonna go to the wayside it's really gonna be just a way that's as obvious as day to communicate information about a patient case as long as that security surrounds it and the workflows are really effective and tailored to it I don't think it's going to be considered such a far-fetched start track technology I think some of the challenges and fears that we hear about it are really more on the home aligner approach where dentists feel like they're being left out of the loop that clinicians aren't being connected to patients that's a key part and a big differentiator for what we do with tell event which is our platform is our platforms really focused on provider to provider and then to patients so we always want to make sure a patient a dentist is at the center of tell an industry and that they're able to tap into new markets reach new patients make it really convenient to bring in patients into their practice not to eliminate it so that you've got a you know a command center where one dentist or one ortho is providing treatment plans for vast numbers of patients without ever physically encountering them

Howard: so let's be clear so I'm you know when internal cameras came out yeah we got to go back all the way to eight seven Paterson came out with the Fuji cam it was slightly smaller than your kitchen refrigerator and slightly larger than the one in your dorm room and it was a monster it was $30,000 and back then every Dentist feast I talked she said that's crazy I'd never spent that kind of money and they waited they thought smartly as the price went from about thirty thousand patterson down to about ten thousand now the next generation you see that with cad/cam you know they're trying to sell a thing for one hundred and forty five thousand when there's companies out there that can sell better technology for a fraction that price but it but i even glad I didn't wait five years for the price to go from thirty thousand ten thousand because I think I sold about a million dollars a year more dentistry so when internal cameras came out I knew that sapiens was a visual animal it's not an auditory animal like a bird and when you would show them that big black hole in their white tooth they got it because the only other deal was to speak Latin and Greek you need mo do it and then you got to trust me then you're thinking you know you're selling me and so I always thought of internal cameras as increasing case acceptance which the dentist tell you I don't want to sell dentistry ok then you can't be a good dentist if ten kids walk in with a cavity and you only convince one to fill it 90% of your restorations were never even done you're horrible but if you could get all ten to do it and you remove the decay I don't even care if you filled the filling with butter you're certainly better than the dentist across the street but are you saying that but now you're taking it to a new level because you're talking about an intro camera that the patient takes home correct so that was a while ago that we started with that approach of patients 

Brent Herman: so when we started the company our original idea was how can we allow patients to see what they're missing at home so the original idea was patients had a camera and they communicated with their dentist they could do self generated recall they could monitor healing we've evolved from that we saw dentists love our camera they loved the price point so we focused on the camera getting into every operatory at a price point that's super affordable our cameras are $2.99 they integrate with every x-ray software out there just

Howard:  $299 $299 from 38,000 Fuji cam thank you Patterson to $299 you got it so when will I be pouring out my Captain Crunch in the bowl and one just falls out for free in my Captain Crunch III can't believe it now now do you manufacture it or do you have intellectual property and you outsource it to some Asian manufacturer how does that work

Brent Herman: we work with the contract manufacturer and then we built our software to allow it to help integrate into the practice management an xray software so it's really easy there's a lot of affordable cameras that are on eBay or Amazon but you're gonna get support from China it's not gonna integrate you're just gonna basically get a glorified webcam where the color may not be that accurate it's not going to integrate and it's going to show a picture which is still effective but you're not going to be able to have your clinicians use a button press to capture it right into the patient record so our mission at 

Hward:mouthwatch is to improve oral health around the world through innovative software and products that improve communications enhance understanding and facilitate the delivery of dental care how many of these have you sold over how many years have you been selling these and how many things sold 

Brent Herman: yeah we've been in business around eight years we're probably in over 17,000 practices with the cameras and it's really been a disruptive approach where a lot of providers love it in that with the older cameras or the more expensive cameras providers have to make that choice of I'm going to get one and I'm gonna put it in whose operatory so now we see that hygiene have cameras every restorative operatory has cameras so instead of doing this limited resource where it's really effective when patients can see it every time every patient every exam let's document let's have them see their teeth on a screen see the oral health issues help with education help with documentation so we've been really lucky and successful in that of allowing a practice that used to just have that one that the dentist held on to the associates didn't want to use the hygienist didn't want to use because they were nervous breaking it now every room every op has a camera and it's really done well and I think the ease of integrations really made it kind of a no-brainer for a lot of practices first of all I mean so many things popped in my head when you said that

Howard:  first of all you know moving moving cameras around so when you move a camera or whatever it is that you're moving from room to room you automatically aren't looking at your statement think I mean the dentist on average that's thirty five percent so that's costs labor is twenty five percent now combined labor and yourself now we're at 55 percent labor which is what the S 500 is the next is lab eight to ten then supply six percent so your best idea hey I'm gonna take my most expensive cost a homo sapien and have them move this camera round room to room so then you look at the most genius operators like Southwest Airlines a very capital-intensive business handed by Boeing 737s for 50 million dollars everyone on the same it's a Boeing 737 everything saying in your operatories every operatory is at Boeing 737s Southwest Airlines if you ever tell me why you saved money by not having a traitor or slow-speed or an ultrasonic cabbage your honor some some crazy insane things I know you're gonna tell me because you told me this for 32 years now you're wrong your cost is humans and you invest in technology and tools to make your humans more efficient you don't have humans standing around waiting for an object and every time I walk into a dental office at least 50% of the time the dentist is in their private office and I don't even have to ask what I do just to validate I say what are you do back here oh let me guess let me guess let me guess you're waiting for an opera Tori you're waiting for a room wait no Ethel's gonna dismiss Joan and then she's gotta clean it up set it up get it and I'm just gonna sit back here for a half an hour I was like what you know you add operatories that the dentist who have one operatory that was never used once every other day makes a hundred thousand more than the others but the guys who have two extra  they're all netting 350 plus chairs are not your costs in fact they're the anti cost when you have labor waiting for a chair or a camera or anything you're out of your mind and if you get all efficient you're gonna squeeze in one more major item add a root canal filling crown whatever but I love the fact that your first best idea is let's get the price point so low that we have one in every operatory because either the protocol is correct that homo sapien can see and comprehend and understand to remember 80% visual 20% audio and if you're gonna sit there and speak Latin and Greek in their ear you just just just hang it up now but when you visually show them and take digital pictures and put them on a red then say you can transfer knowledge is Sapien almost instantly they're like oh yeah I get it the  white there's a big black hole needs to be fixed I mean it's just it's just the only way and even you talk to a teacher they say how do you teach kids show touch feel I'm gonna stand up there and give you an audio it's show touch ville a lot of parents I talk to you're like wait I can't always look at that smart phone he should be reading a book show me the book you want met him to read well he recommended this when you flip through it no pictures it's like so it surprises you that you're kidded rather watch a video on YouTube then read this black and white textbook you know so you gotta go with the flow you can't fight it so so mouthwash so tell me more about your unique selling propositions of what you're trying to do 

Brent Herman: well I think a key point you brought up of the practice that has that extra operatory can generate more revenue can see more patients and can create new opportunities that's what we're trying to do in a lot of ways with tella dentistry I think with tell event and tell an industry there's been a long history well relatively long in the scheme of things but for tell a dentist's tree to allow in public health programs access to patients who have trouble getting into an office so that might look like a remote consult it might look like a hygiene seeing a patient in a nursing home or in a school setting but the opportunity that's really exciting that a lot more practices and states as state legislation allows it is how does that doctor tap into new patients and create an opera tori without having to physically build another room in their practice so we see a lot grow of growth in the mobile providers that are going out there of practices that are launching kind of an on-site hygiene program where they're going into a corporate campus they're providing preventive care they're billing their insurance for it and when there's a need for restorative they're referring it back into the brick-and-mortar office so that's this huge opportunity where tele-dentistry really facilitates that and what we want to do is make sure that that patients experience of the information that was found the hygienist is providing those services for the preventive care but that opens all these opportunities for that dentist to present a treatment plan for restorative to communicate visually with that patient about the need for restorative and when they want to come in for the filling the crown the cosmetic procedure they know what's happening they already has been finished so everything's able to be identified earlier and that patients got a connection with the provider that they may have never met but then when they go in they feel comfortable they've seen the issue and there's no selling of dentistry it's just allowing that practice to start working on higher value restorative cases in that operatory that's now full 

Howard:so the reason I contacted you and you did not contact me and is because when you are on Google tell a dentist's tree on dental town or internal cameras whatever your names all over I mean this guy says best intro camera he says I am in need of upgrading intro cameras any thoughts on the best internal camera compatible with Dex's every every post mouthwash I bought to recently around 300 each I love it it's more also like my mouthwash great support team walk you through I mean I mean you're just crushing white why do you think the dentist I mean the dentists on what was that on commercial with this cereal I'm Mikey Mikey doesn't like anything was a life cereal was it life so Dennis there are they're all Mikey's they don't like anything I mean they made two they make two hundred thousand dollars a year with three-day weekends and you'd literally think there were coal miners that were not paid why do you think these guys like mouths watch so much the next guy says that my god this is great he goes another vote for mouthwash we have one in every operatory and we have 25 operatories love them I mean so so what what do you think you think the price point is the biggest thing $299 

Brent Herman: yeah they're $299 when you buy more than one you get 10% off so they're 269 well we think we tapped into is really that dentist got tired of being charged too much just because they were dentists and we wanted to approach it and say look this is an essential tool this is no longer the optional tool for presenting that high-end cosmetic case this needs to be documenting new patient exams when you want to submit a claim use a picture if something can't be seen on an x-ray but you can document it visually just have these in every room and I think we get more questions where people are nervous about the low cost as opposed to what they're actually seeing with the quality the ease of integration all of that so I think we've built this really strong fan base because the cameras do a great job of showing patients what they need to see the integration is key because I've seen 5,000 dollar cameras where dentists are complaining of like the image is great when I can get the image to work so it's not capturing I have to call in an assistant she's got to hit the space bar take a picture so we want to find all the ways to really make that experience as easy as possible and we try to treat this stuff as go ahead no 

Howard: no my granddaughter's Tong Tracy right would you say grandpa I'll be home right when it gets dark okay you good okay okay love you sorry about that it was a granddaughter interruption but so sorry 

Brent Herman: yes I think really just having it work well work consistently and being a price point where they're okay you know taking a chance on it and we get that a lot we get the doctors like I'll give it a chance with one and then they're coming back and they're buying seven so I think that's the change for a lot of them is I don't need the quote you know even though the quality is just the same it integrates well these guys treat me with support that I'm not paying for we remote in we make sure you're set up and working well you can call us you can chat with us all the stuff that people come to expect especially from consumer products we want it to offer to professionals at a price point that wasn't outrageous and then our bigger goal is really having those cameras a lot of what we do with tell it industry is visual so if we can get cameras into operatories and start opening minds as to oh what can I do to extend this patients experience now that I have the intro camera that's where we start introducing Teledyne so a big goal for us with tell event is when I'm creating a treatment plan for a patient and I show them that they need a crown or I show them that they need a rehab of some sort I can use pictures to share with them so that now they're at home because when they're sitting in the chair and I'm describing all of these clinical issues that need to be done and how I'm going to take care of it a lot of that's happening is the patient's hearing the dollar sign and they're kind of tuning out the actual clinical need so what we like with tell event is now the patient has a treatment plan with the pictures with the description of what they need to do they can go home they can talk to their spouse they could look at this and now they could videoconference with the provider or the treatment plan coordinator or someone and say we have a couple of questions about it but it's clearly important now that I'm not in the chair I'm not done with my appointment and you're telling me all this stuff that needs to be done 

Howard: so or you know so you've been how long is this mouth watch company been around we've been around eight years eight years and so it's an intraoral camera company for eight years and sold 17,000 so is tell a Dentistryyour next big bet is that like another product line is it I'm what what what what what does tell a dentistry look like now as opposed you weren't thinking about telling dentistry years ago were you well we were

Brent Herman: so when we launched our first product was taking the camera and having the patient take it home and communicate with the doctor with our software but we saw the way programs and providers were basically we love the camera we want to use them chair side and we love the software but for specific types of practices or programs they were kind of breaking it to make it work the way they needed it to so instead of it being the patient using it we had programs where a provider might have six locations and they wanted all six of those locations to communicate with a central dentist so that kind of allowed us to evolve we focused on the cameras we saw how tele-dentistry was changing and we built tell a dent and tell event is really designed as live video conferencing and store-and-forward so all the clinical information a dentist or specialist needs to create an evaluation to build a treatment plan can all be taken in our software and shared to any other provider that they've invited into the tell a dent so it allows growing practices as let's say a location now has five six ten locations you could have that one of the founding dentists or a senior dentist not driving to each location anymore but they can do live video they could share clinical data they can help those younger associates treatment plan they can also take any of that stuff and share it directly to a patient now and they can do a video consult with the patient loop them in they could have their hygiene force go working off-site seeing patients in different settings corporate campuses nursing homes school programs really taking that highest cost of that kind of approach of being the dentist and keeping the dentist in the office but having this other workforce out there seeing patients making it there's a lot of talk about access to care we see it as also convenient access to care like make it easy for people to get connected to a dentist and then they're gonna come in for the bigger treatment needs that they have so we're really a company that does two main things well inter all cameras in every op in a traditional practice setting and then groundbreaking tell identity software that's kind of a game-changer as far as the opportunities it creates for practices and programs 

Howad: so how do you you know you're you've been going in technology for a long time you were with the the last big boom you are out there in Silicon Valley doing the technology boom which is about 90 I always think of it like 94 when Amazon went public Atilla crashed March 2000 um how when you certainly didn't Ella dentistry I mean even smart Zuckerberg bought oculus for two billion dollars and nobody thinks that was a good idea but he bought Instagram for 1 billion and that was like the homerun of all homeruns how do you set up the metrics to know that if this tele-dentistry things a good bet it's really gonna take off and not be the oculus rift of dentistry 

Brent Herman: it's a good question I think the markets evolving there's challenges facing dentists that weren't there 20 years ago I think change in compensation the emphasis in preventive care the opportunities to see the patients the 60% of Americans who don't see a dentist every year how do we tap into that opportunity and I think between the progressive practice axe common-sense legislation as things are moving to allow dental care to get into more settings and not be in that traditional four-walled practice like it had been I think that's the opportunity with tella dentistry of cloud-based software ease of connecting to new patients kind of just increasing the number of ways and places where a patient can start their journey of getting dental care so it might be cleanings and lightnings right in a way that's really convenient to them it might be setting up something in a school so that the thousands of kids in a school district who might not have a dental home or a pediatric dentist or anything this is a touch point and it's an opportunity for a practice to get someone out there and kind of turn that screening or preventive care into a new patient in the practice so for us the metrics are really a combination of one naturally how many groups and practices are using tell identities innovative practice models come up where they're doing mobile they're creating different approaches and they're doing that enabled by technology I think another cool part Howard is really with telemedicine you see that adoption you see patients craving it you want the convenience you want the expertise of a clinician what's interesting about dentistry is dental still needs a butt in a chair they need a patient to go see the provider to get the work done it's not you're gonna get a prescription called in without ever physically seeing a provider we just want to make that whole opportunity and process a lot easier for patients so that they can find doctors that are tech-savvy that are thinking outside of the box making it convenient which is something patients want and then providing that expertise in a way that's really effective that's not just this removed go search online try to get some advice and figure out what you need you've got to go in to get you know wet fingers taking care of the treatment needs you have we think this is a really cool way to make that happen a little more easily

Howard: you have some big fan out here where eyelid Phoenix Arizona Arizona Elaine mamola smiles by delivery what's she doing with your product 

Brent Herman: she's got a cool approach where they have a mobile hygiene program they also do on-site dental Arizona there's a few retired people out there so what she's able to do is she'll provide screenings on-site at nursing homes at community centers at senior living facilities even retirement communities her hygienists or her assistants go out and take pictures they show the images to the patients so that they know what's going on and then she's able to share that treatment plan with the adult child of let's say a nursing home resident and the child then talks to the dentist and Elaine and her team and they look at everything they see the need for treatment and then they're able to authorize services directly to smiles by delivery who then goes back out and provides restoratives and anything a little more complex they're able to do a referral out to the specialist and 

Howard: you know this is what really excites me because you know I grew up with five sisters and a brother I had four kids I mean you know it's family first business second and you know when Dennis work four days a week and they're closed Friday Saturday Sunday and eight and a half percent of the emergency room visits in the state Arizona all odontogenic in origin the four percent of Americans finish out their life in a nursing home where it's well documented they're getting one root surface cavity a month and they're all untreated this I you know I as dentistry gets more challenging for the dentist provider more dental schools you know more government involvement with reimbursements and also yeah I know all the bad stuff up wind the downstream that we're swimming into but man for the patient it's got to be exciting I mean our losses oftentimes or big benefits for the customer I mean when I'm laying in a nursing home with nine root surface cavities I would love it if somebody came in there and could do tella dentistry and painting with silver diamine fluoride or that or I mean what's the alternative they just walk in there and shoot you 

Brent Herman: Arizona's a great state because the Practice Act allows it specifically defines telehealth technology to allow a service to be provided by a dentist so we have a program working with us and this is a private practice group practice where they're opening up offices that just have hygienists working in them so they can go into hi travelers you're backwards is that what's it called it's in Tucson  Arizona yeah and so they're able to get hi Janice who are supervised by the dentist through tell identity but they're providing preventive services for those patients and then there is a need for restorative now I'll Drive the 25 minutes but it was really easy for me to go get my prophy and evaluation done in a in a center that's more focused on hygiene and to your point about family and timing that office can be open from 7 a.m. till 9 p.m. right when people are not working when kids don't have to be taken out of school and employers don't have to ask people to take time off and they can go in and get the preventive part done and then the doctor is able to evaluate them remotely share the treatment plan and when they do come in they know what they're coming in for so it's more efficient for the doctor and it's super convenient for the patient 

Howard:  I mean there's there's a Twitter I follow it's called at senior smiles and it's one in 10 seniors die of dental neglect and it's right here in Surprise Arizona you know anything about that one I'm not sure I think it's another kind of mobile elder care yeah so what's the one in Tucson you're talking about that's

Brent Herman: called Aris Family Dental so Aer is a er is family dental and they they have a hygiene only Aris family dental is a hygiene only visitor they've got mainly private they've got mainly practices that are full restorative and they've got approaches where the hygienist can work without a dentist there and see patients for preventive care and then do that referral for restorative and that's something we're starting to see in more and more States as States allow and weird really big supporters of practice acts that allow hygienists to see patients do the services that are needed where they're communicating with the dentist the technology allows dentists not to see hygienists as a threat but to really see just like in a private practice hygienists are creating opportunity I shouldn't say that they're fine they're identifying patients that need additional treatment and the dentist comes in at the end of their appointment for a pro fee they're doing the exam and then they're rescheduling that restorative work it's been identified by the dentist so what we want to do is take that model and say well why don't we do the preventive anywhere and then refer in the restorative back to the dentist so dentists are focused on higher value restorative and they can kind of spread out their workforce to see patients that may not find them through traditional marketing approaches but they're gonna find them by being the most convenient high quality preventive care provider with them an easy referral in for restorative

Howard:  so um let's talk about the 400 pound elephant in the room and that is um you know smiles direct did IPO this year and they were kind of talking like you where we're gonna use technology and we're gonna use technology and make orthodontics faster easier higher quality cheap or whatever and but they decided in their protocol to not work with the existing orthodontic profession like Invisalign went out of their way to and like when noble biocare came out I mean brand Marc at first he would only talk to Oral Surgeons and then it was like it was like you know the periodontist were the next untouchables and the dentist for last but you know they worked in the pecking order um what do you think smiles direct club had good tella dentistry technology and knowledge and was headed in the right direction just were just politically didn't realize that you know we don't underestimate when you go to battle I mean any country can can take you out and they when the when they started launching lawsuits against orthodontists in Canada and the oh my god really there's 50 states they all have a Dental Society they all have a lobbyist they all have a lawyer and your best idea was to draw blood first really what was your next best idea so do you think smiles direct had great technology and just were clueless in rolling it out as their IPO stock prices down 60% so it's not just my opinion it's dollars and cents so

Brent Herman: I think I think home aligner companies came upon a real consumer need that consumers were looking for a more portable way to do that I want you know I think my focus is really on making sure our patients connected to a provider I think there's a ton of opportunity to do that I think when certain aspects of treatment planning and they're not connecting physically I think there's a challenge for the patient and we are big supporters of making sure there's a dentist an orthodontist the specialist who the patient directly can interact with they have an encounter with them and there's a way for that to allow life to be more convenient for the patient when they're getting that treatment so we in working with some orthodontist we have approaches where they're managing multiple locations they're providing virtual consults with it they're engaging with them after they leave the office to take care of it but I mean clearly they've identified something that patients are interested in and I think our approach which is really on the preventive and restorative side we want to encourage patients to have that convenience but make it accessible for private practices group practices dsos public health programs to bring the convenience that patients want and I think that's the cool aspect of technology is can you bring that without sacrificing any clinical expertise but really making it super convenient super easy for a patient to connect to your practice or program 

Howard: so you have these kids come agonal school there are $285,000 student loans and their best ideas to borrow other people's money to a third of a million dollars and then stop there and try to pay it back make it a hundred thousand dollars a year less as an associate to know in their office and they do that for about five years till they finally finally realize if you borrow 303rd of a million dollars other people's money you gotta borrow another 750 by your own damn office have skin in the game to get the first 300 payback that's a whole another episode but I'm when they finally get that dental office they want to buy I think of the nucleus of the digital world is the practice management software if she was working for bob fontana right and Aspen and she's gonna build her own office is there a practice manager software or would you think if you could reduce the list of one what would you tell her 

Brent Herman: I think there's definitely a movement toward the cloud I understand why some practices are still using server based practice management suites I think it varies depending on what type of practice you are our goal with tell event is really to integrate into that so that as you have a tell an industry workflow you're seeing patients in these different approaches tella dad's gonna integrate with those practice management Suites for me personally and our goal as a company is as practice management evolves more toward I would say in dental there's this legacy of more isolated technology we're looking for it to become a little bit more in line with EHR standards that integrations a lot easier there's more of a trend toward that even from traditional private practices that want to send a text message reminder to a patient about their appointment that takes some level of integration which has evolved a lot over the past ten years and I think the next step for that is really going to be more openness more inter you know exchange of data and ease of integration across multiple tools that a practice needs to use to thrive to be convenient and to kind of adapt 

Howrad:so the first thing that in this explanation was that you don't know why they each one have their own servers and all that stuff why does it not move to the cloud so is your is your first requirement to these young kids that you think it's all going to the cloud and they should write that curve I mean if you were if you were consulting your own twenty five-year-old daughter who's just gonna start our own dental business and she's gonna tell her to start with cloud

Brent Herman: I think it depends on what their goal is but I think as practices evolve into multiple locations if that's the goal of the provider then to me it's helpful it's a little more scalable and you're able to kind of continue to get updates and as long as you've got the security behind it the ease-of-use behind it and for us naturally the integration that's going to be ideal I think there's a lot of challenges with imaging that become that have gotten a lot better but I would think that's the approach one thing I should say a lot of the younger dentists coming out of school are very interested in American student dental Student Association had a mandate for tell identity education we talked to a lot of young dentists who are very comfortable in technology they're open to a different approach to starting a practice so we do see this really big uptick of young dentists who are looking for a different approach of growing a practice of reaching patients also finding a way to kind of balance feel-good aspect of serving their community but also growing their private business so we've got a great provider in Texas which is a relatively restrictive practice Act state but what they're able to do is they've got five locations now and they use tell a dentist's tree to allow them to go into community schools they do screenings they take pictures that can be with a dental assistant it doesn't have to be with a hygienist and then they're taking that treatment plan and then sharing that with family members so they're now meshed in the community right not only kids are getting these screenings but teachers faculty they all want screenings - and the practice is growing because he's tapping into this audience of patients who need a dental home they just needed someone to be convenient and come to them so we're seeing more and more of that of an emphasis on preventive care on identification different business models that aren't just borrowing more money buying the practice or going to work in a big group I think those are still happening and you know that I think it's going to continue to but the technology and the market is changing enough that there's these new opportunities to think a little bit differently position your practice a little bit differently and still serve patients and really grow a practice

Howard: um you're amazing I mean you have the talent mobile obso he is websites mouthwash I mean it's an intro camera the mouth watch mouth watch tell a debt mobile op your dental care is going places and you have the whole kit and caboodle it's a heavy-duty hospital-grade locking caster strong metal powder coater frame computer keyboard adjustable height keyboard work surface how is that when were you when did you first sell a mobile op how much does it cost how's that going

Brent Herman: yeah so we came out with the mobile app a lot of the programs we work with on tell identity end up being mobile or portable programs so we work with some great manufacturers of portable equipment that was a partnership that we did with dental works where we saw some settings like nursing homes schools that have health clinics in them hospitals where they wanted a fully portable dental operatory also a private practice could by that if they didn't want to plumb out a whole new operatory it's a full restorative or preventive kit with the computer on it that allows for Virtual Console but when you've got a hygienists great if you've got a dentist great they can do the full restorative work high powered suction and if they need to wheel it from one room to another they just unplug it and move it so that we built in a response to really how we saw programs evolving that they needed to be mobile they needed to be flexible and whether it's a suitcase unit and a pop-up chair all the way to something like that which can bring in a portable chair and that and you've got a full dental operatory it's been working really well that price is usually around 15,000 but there's a range of portable that can start very low that four or five thousand to get kind of a preventive care kit out there 

Howard:you know um a lot of times in dental school you know they come out $285,000 zoom lens then they go back to grad school and they become a specialist for another three years so now they're at five hundred thousand and then they were next to some hottie in their class and married that person she's in the same boat so now they're now their babies are 27 and they're a million dollars in debt and then their best idea is to come out and say one's an orthodontist you know they're gonna go buy a half million dollar piece of land build a five hundred thousand dollar building and you know get another million half dollars in debt and sometimes they look at these people like seeing in odorous okay you got out of school you'll want to go to LA but la is so crowded why all this extra debt why don't you just call the five biggest dental offices in LA and say I'll come in and do your endo for fifty-fifty no so so with all that profit is a return on no investment except for your initial cost and then what you're saying is hell for just fifteen grand you can have a mobile dental operatory you could just go in there chef I know in Arizona right now you go to any nursing home and you couldn't do all the dentistry in a month in any nursing home and I mean so this is really starting to become a great business idea yeah

Brent Herman: even to your point on the endodontist if that endodontist is using tell identity Ella dentistry technology they can do live consults to each of those locations that they're visiting they can communicate with the patient they can communicate with the dentist so that their day is efficient as well so when you've got this hub-and-spoke model of a specialist who's travelling to all these locations right now they're going in they don't really know what's happening for the day that they're scheduled all of their endo appointments right or their pareo patients this way they've communicated with the patient they know what's happening they're more efficient the patient feels engaged with them it's not just just show back up and you'll meet this doctor for the first time so we're really seeing that of like let me extend my expertise and my convenience into all of these settings that I can then go in provide the service that I do and be just as effective and then the next day I know it's going to be on my schedule the next day I've already met some of the patients virtually and the office is ready everything's evaluated and taken care of 

Howard:I am I I don't your your features on what this central camera does it's like I don't even understand I mean half the features are talking about I feel bad because like I don't know what they are you you want to explain some of those camera

Brent Herman: yeah well the cameras really straightforward it shouldn't be that I mean it's really just a easy-to-use fixed focus camera single button capture bright LEDs really accurate color for soft tissue art tissue and then it's got the button that captures within whatever software used X's Eagle soft xcr app tricks you can think of open mental yeah open dental you can acquire images Vic's win anything in the market we're really integrating directly into that and dentists love that part that it's capturing there's some other cameras that are more expensive and trickier to use and that you're launching their software capturing images in their software and then you have to import them into whatever your x-ray software is so for us people love that it's kind of within the patient record they snap a couple of pictures they show the patient on a live screen we do have other software if there are practices that don't have x-ray software digital imaging we make something called exam tab they can use that to present cases print out a treatment plan with images for a patient and the intelligent is really where it's evolving of now I'm taking these pictures how can I not only store them clinically for my office's use but how can I extend that to a patient so of the 30 images I took there's four key images that I want to show the patient let me take those build a visual treatment plan intelligent and share that to a patient so they log in they see it they could talk about it ask any questions and then there were game to come in for treatment and it really I think to your point it really does reduce that feeling of selling right a patient sees it they get it they didn't go to dental school they didn't know how to read a read a radiograph they see a picture they know what you're talking about

Howard: so back to those features though I obviously understand all this I'm just asking for the viewers 

Brent Herman: live streaming visual evaluations or intelligent so on saladin we do the ad a defined in CT codes there's two CPT codes for tell an industry one is synchronous and one is asynchronous so synchronous is what we're doing now a live video consult and with tell addendum intro up camera and you could be in your office and I could be out with a patient and you could be seeing the live video feed of the internal camera talking to the patient talking to the provider who's off-site and basically guiding them taking snapshots while they're looking around that's called a synchronous consult so that's very popular in medical it's less popular in dental because dentists are busy so for you to hop out of your operatory and go do a live consult that's going to take a little more time then what we call a synchronous or store-and-forward is when the provider is with the patient they're taking all the photos charting clinical data that's syncing up to the cloud and now the doctor gets a notification and they could review it and build a treatment plan or communicate with the patient about what they see so those are the two main ways tele-dentistry is handled either live or store-and-forward

Howard:  and when you're on dental town what do you think is the general temperature of attitudes and opinions of tella dentistry what do you think is this is that in their minds

Brent Herman: yeah good question so I think there's a misperception I think some people think tella dentistry is really about home aligners we do a lot to educate that it's really about opportunity to connecting to new patients and adding efficiency to programs public health programs or I think it's really a perception that it's limited to you know the Alaskan rural consult to an oral surgeon to save someone a four-hour drive or flight I think that's where it had started but it's really evolved to just be a part of digital workflow that allows patients no matter where they are to connect to providers wherever they are so you might see a city where it's just a matter of someone's busy someone doesn't have time to take two and a half hours out of their day go to the dentist for a look-see appointment or for a consult let's do that virtually let's make it really easy get that convenient connection to the dentist and then loop them in when they do need the appointment everyone knows what's happening and everyone expectations are set one of the problems

Howard:  when you're an early adopter and you breakout is you're you didn't realize that you broke out ahead of your vendors like they take malpractice dental insurance there's there's dentists that 

Brent Herman: once they inform their malpractice that they were just going into nursing homes got dropped I would what does the malpractice our people are they getting on are they starting to understand tella dentistry yeah it's actually reassuring for us they look to practice acts so as long as practice acts allow either general supervision for hygienists to cease patients off site make them new patients of record as more states to find tella dentistry that helps as far as clarification but there's you know we've had some interesting conversations on the carrier side there's been some concern from dental boards or providers who feel like this is an opportunity for fraud this is an opportunity for evaluations limited or comprehensive evaluations being done remotely that never take place so what we've seen from that on the carrier side you know is know we're detecting fraud whether you like it or not whether it's done via tell identity or you're just saying you're going into the operatory or not we're able to find those things so malpractice carriers they're really looking and saying if a practice Act allows this we're supporting that practice Act so if it can be offsite mobile if you go into a nursing home you know and I think one thing that's great about telling industry is it would be really challenging in certain settings to provide that supervision or authorization of services without telehealth technology so if a dentist needs a ssin before i'm sorry if it's if a hygienist ease authorization before a dentist before they can apply silver diamond fluoride or an interim restoration tella dentistry technology allows that authorization to happen and be documented so that's really allowing a lot more dentists the more we talk with them see this allows this to work right I'm now supervising my hygienist I'm supervising another provider I'm engaged in what's happening as opposed to I find out later that day or the next day and then I'm just maybe reviewing a note I'm not even seeing visual images of what was happening so I think it really does bridge that connection for supervision and allowed better communication 

Howard: so I know you're a big dude on the lecture scene and the space teledensity and all stuff have you run into Mark Ackerman we had him on the show about teledentistry

Brent Herman: yes I was on a panel at the tell identity associations meeting and I think it was interesting it was really a lot of the attendees there were in the public health space because that's kind of the biggest area where it's been adopted and implemented and then I think there's some confusion about home aligners and you know ortho and Telep ortho versus tele-dentistry so yeah we've met them you know we've talked a bunch of times so is you you keep coming back to clear aligners just do you think this this clear aligner industry kind of tarnished the image of a Teledyne street I think it created some confusion I mean personally I would love it if it was called telework though because that's what I see and I think a lot of dentist heard in an IPO and news and it was you know really covered a lot we just detail the dentistry is really this broad opportunity that works for public health programs it works for private practices it works for group practices and then there's this consumer facing model which I think exists and I think it serves a need that's not the space we're in we're really about keeping the dentist at the middle of tell identity we want them engaged we want them communicating with their patients we don't want to have a program where a patient really can't get connected to the patient to the provider that they're gonna deal with we one hygienist seeing patients we want specialists seeing the patient that I could have a videoconference and consult with the provider that I'm ultimately going to see or is probably going to be in the office that I'm going to go to 

Howard: so um so how long have you been on this tell identity weigh-in I mean how long has this been your passion 

Brent Herman: so we started eight years ago our first product was I would say more of a remote patient monitoring approach to tell an industry where the patient was using the camera at home and sharing that with their established dentist we relaunched Ella dent three years ago so three years ago was really when we kicked into how we see providers communicating with providers and patients on tell an industry and it's we're very passionate about it we think it's a huge opportunity we love having the cameras out there as a way for people to get comfortable documenting images and clinical needs but the platform is really a lot of our energy and effort is going into showing this broad opportunity that I think is a game-changer for private practices we see so many public health programs thriving with it and there's a lot of different approaches we're not putting an app on your phone just yet where a patient's paying for a consultation we believe if you can get that patient into a setting where they can get you know clinical expertise that's ideal but to charge a patient for a virtual consult so for them to be told that they need to go see a dentist and pay again that doesn't sit as well with me I think if you can educate a patient it would be frustrating to me if I was a patient and I'm paying I have pain in my molar and I'm paying to be told that there's pain in your molar and you need to go see a dentist and I got to go pay again for it so I think there's a cool range of opportunities with it I love where we're at we really want to kind of break open the four walls of a practice get them into the community get them into see those patients that they're not currently seeing and that they're not currently marketing to but that can help grow their practice so that might look like a nursing home it might look like a school it also might look like pop-up corporate a corporate campus where they just need convenient connection to care and it's not about directly connecting to the patient in some settings but it's about a referral we work with specialists who offer tell is to they're referring GPS so they're making it really easy to share all that clinical data shared the referral don't give the patient a business card and say go call this surgeon when you have a chance let's get that information to the surgeon who can then follow up with the patient and really close the loop we also do a lot with medical dental settings so a pediatricians office a hospital and emergency room diversion all of those ways to stop you know to enable a medical provider to refer to dental and not just say that's out of my realm and I don't know what to do with it those are key ways that I think you can improve patients experience you can lower the cost of health care you know in a bigger way and really make it a better experience for everyone involved well you're out where are you living now we're in New Jersey New Jersey 

Howard: I mean so you're right next to New York and when the New York Times starts talking about you know something's going on that says you mean I don't have to show up the promise of telemedicine and even the the New York Times is all over this I mean it's just amazing it comes down to money's answer what's the question availability affordability you know can they go in you know this has technology usually can solve all five digits it's faster it's easier it's higher quality it's lower in cost and it's smaller and so many times Dentist come into some idea and the first thing out of the gate is it's not cheaper in fact this new technology is so value at it it's actually gonna make the whole thing more expensive and you're just like you know it's like when a dentist wants me eat a lunch and three minutes into you realize it's a multi-level marketing Amway pitch I mean you just don't know if you should throw up or start crying because I mean how can you not understand with multi-level marketing that when you intentionally design six middlemen well Walmart did the opposite one by getting rid of all the middlemen what do you not understand here but I wouldn't you said specialist there's ten specialties where is this gonna be the most weighted advantageous technology among our 10 specialties and where will it be least weighted or not make an impact 

Brent Herman: so on the referral side of things you mentioned endo endodontist have a really high success rate in referrals from the GP to the endo because someone's in significant pain they're making that appointment and they're following up on it on cases where we picture a case where a general dentist identifies a need for a couple of implants right that need for an implant in a broken referral model is the dentist saying look you're gonna need a couple of implants here's the card of the oral surgeon we recommend call her up go into her office and then when she's done placing the implants we'll get a letter a couple of weeks later and then we'll follow up with you to schedule up the restoration we see that changing we want that patient when there's a need for those implants that the patient and the GP could talk to the referring oral surgery office in real time like we're doing now they could see inter all images if they need it clinical data radiographs CT scans whatever it is can be uploaded through Teledyne the oral surgeons office now has all of that patients information so the doctor can send that patient home who now knows a little bit more maybe they've met the surgeon or at least their treatment coordinator and they can go home and now the oral surgeons office is gonna call them set up an appointment they know what they need the doctors can talk about a treatment plan and their approach so that they're in the loop and then the patient comes into the oral surgery office gets the implants placed they notify through telenet right after that's placed the doctor gets notified that the implants were placed and the GP who's had that patient for years can now call them and say how are you feeling is every how's your healing going they've got the ball and they're kind of engaged in this care coordination so instead of just being here's the card go get them call me when you're done now there's a loop right there's this closed loop of a care team patients love it providers are gonna love it there's an easier workflow we see so many specialists who are getting FedEx AOL emails they're getting all kinds of stuff coming into them and they're for an office team is really trying to coordinate and wrangle and scan all of this information let's share it all through tell it in and let's allow that communication to happen you know 

Howard: the most interesting study I ever saw is that I'm the only 17% of your time you know dealing with the dentist from making the appointment driving to the office sitting in the waiting room being seated you know only 20 minutes or 17% of the total patients time is with the dentist yeah so so tell the dentistry can make it 83% faster easier higher quality lower cost and and I've been doing tell identity was invented by Steve Jobs when he came out with the iPhone I mean you know I always go around and court all the pharmacies and the emergency rooms I go in there and I give them cookies and I as long as you're pressing the flash and making sure because they love declared emergency room is there anybody here just for a toothache you know there's Howard across the street at today's dental you don't need an appointment or any and we cannot do a root canal we can't pull it - if this is a - thing because that they wouldn't get rid of all that stuff and then we're do as a pharmacist I always tell the firm's I said you know if someone asks you you know what's better for a toothache is that Bufferin is it advil is it origel do just play your iphone call me FaceTime me and hand the patient the iPhone and it is amazing what I can diagnose over an iPhone as some guy standing at the counter or Walgreens and and then what's so motivating for that is in dentistry all the non pain stuff doesn't have high compliance you talked about the endodontics have the highest compliance because they're paced or motivated by pain you're not making Bank on cleanings exams x-rays and fillings but toothaches and extractions and and some guys facetiming mean he's across the street at Walgreens I mean I tell the dentistry has been working for me for you know a decade so what's the difference between an internal camera knife tella dentistry 

Brent Herman: you can't really shove it in there as far yeah I think it's just kind of clinical accuracy I think I printed great for kind of extra oral and getting a general idea if you want to see a magnified image of a rear molar or kind of a lingual surface you're gonna want an internal camera and I think the goal is and forget about HIPAA compliance I mean we want to make sure when someone's using tell Adem that all that pH I is protected and it's secure between the providers and the group so yeah I think it's effective I think a lot of providers are using iPhones for you know some documentation for some case presentation shots but in general is just gonna really get more clinical detail that's gonna help with kind of more complex assessments and

Howard:  I also think that um you know you talked about tell identities for you know it's opportunities for private practice public health programs specialist but medical dental integration that that's a big one for me because I been to the other countries and you're not allowed to say anything good about the centrally-planned economies of Russia and China and on us up but man I I thought that you know the Russians they  had the first satellite they landed the first human-made thing on the moon didn't have wasn't alight human but they the first woman in space first dog in space also something that but owed dentistry a stomatology was just a branch of medicine I mean could be a dermatologist you could be a gynecologist an ophthalmologist or stomatology and what I liked about them is they were all in the same page they all had classmates a they were just integrated more and then if you got burned out or you know because dentistry is very unique in that it's all surgery I mean 90% of the 1 million MDS today are not getting numb someone up and take a razor blade to them they just sit there and look at data so I get homies that you know loss and I arthritis paralyzed and if they said you know what I  want to go back and be I want to be a pediatrician how they got to go all the way back to zero it's just there's just no flexibility in our stubborn system and then you're sitting there working on a patient I've seen this so many times where you know they're they're all worried about you know grandma she might have gum disease well you know she didn't get a flu shot in 30,000 Americans died last year of the flu wait why didn't you you know I'm more concerned about grandma not having a flu shot than I am that she's got gingivitis or HPV vaccine now we're talking about death so so you spent the whole appointment on a home care instruction and they don't have an HPV vaccine they don't have a flu shot and then when you do missionary dentistry you know you're out there in the middle of the jungle and these guys are trying to count the cavities I'm like dude have you looked at his foot it's the size of a football and we put him on the table and there's a he had a piece of metal stuck in his foot the only thing we could use for a wound was my tennis shoe poured it filled it up with paradox but before we left four days later that kid was running he went from dragging a lame foot to running and laughing and playing and all of a sudden like that and aunt dentistry America had the first dental school in Ohio they had the first dental university in Baltimore and it was on a separate leg of its own and it needs to get back with the rest of the body I mean there are enough you're aware of this but did you notice how humans also have eyes nose ears feet livers pancreas you know it needs to get more integrated how do you think specifically tell a dentistry is going to integrate medical and dentistry more 

Brent Herman: yeah great point so for us it's starting with education we're doing a really cool program with NYU we're in the dental school they're teaching tella dentistry and curriculum and then what they start doing is they start bringing in nurse practitioners speech pathologists nutritionists pediatricians to kind of get comfortable with an internal camera documenting an oral screening and sharing that information to a dental clinic so we want to see more of that coming to curriculum and I think a lot of that shift has started of interdisciplinary where dental students and medical students are starting down the same path and then diverging into their specialties I think it's then other making it easy in different settings to capture an oral screen so in a pediatricians office in an oncologist office in an ob/gyn any of these settings where you're gonna see a patient who's at a higher risk needs to have a pareo evaluation needs to have preventive care provided those touch points to make it as easy as possible for them to capture images take some basic information and make their referral to a dentist I think that's the way we're gonna start seeing more of the kind of medical dental integration happen I think you're also gonna see things like minute clinics right you've got patients who are coming in for one thing they can at least document it they can assign it to it associated Dental Group they can review the patient follow-up with them and get them in for treatment longer game yeah I think with value-based healthcare there's gonna be a need for dental care to start identifying other general health and wellness measures and metrics so it shouldn't just be a health history that lives on its own within a dental practice it's got to be tied to the general wellness of that patient and other health information about that patient so it's great to see I think things where systemic health those things are being educated oral issues are being identified and taught to pediatricians family practitioners but we want to see the way to bridge that gap and really start collecting some of that and closing the loop so that a patient is going in for a medical appointment if they have an oral health issue there's an easy referral there's a seamless referral to the dental care team

Howard:  so if someone wants to know more how do they how do they find out more from you 

Brent Herman: they can go to our website mouth watch comm they could call us they could request a consultation to learn about tellen intend how the platform works our cameras are really self-explanatory you can see some great examples of the images we take the integrations we have on our website and just reach out to us we'd love to hear from you and kind of learn about different practice models programs however they're looking to learn about tell an industry and cameras are just a win-win for everyone so when someone will to buy one are they buying it as your channel direct you sell them on Amazon do you only go through dealers Cheyne Patterson Benko how does the shop work

Brent Herman: yeah so we're primarily direct we work with a couple of distributors but most of the volume that we sell is through our website you can call our support team our sales team and if you're a larger group we offer kind of some additional services where we're trying to help with education seee courses you know ways to show it's more than about just having a camera it's about a way to educate patients how you communicate treatment needs a little bit more than just uh you know an imaging device you know I

Howard:  last week I was in Israel for the whole week and attend podcast ten companies just had a blast their number one question is when we try to go to America should we sell which channel should we do shall we go through the distributors which they all called Dental Depot's I thought that was interesting they called him dental Depot's or should they sell direct and Greater New York meeting which is right by you the last four years in a row Amazon's been there what would you tell dental companies in Asia and Africa and Latin America should they sell director should be an Amazon should they go through channels you've been at this for eight years and sold 17,000 cameras he's gotta be an expert on channel selection so what's your channel advice 

Brent Herman: yeah I mean we wanted to go direct because of the price point of our intro camera so we felt like we could convey that message and we didn't have as much margin to work with as you know a four thousand five thousand dollar camera but it's really up to the product I think sometimes you know I've met and worked with a lot of reps of different dealers they do a great job I think they can bring a whole solution into a practice and we've got great relationships with them so to me it depends I mean I know for us with the price point that we wanted to offer we want it to work direct and we wanted to introduce it through conferences trade shows and get people going to our website but the dealers that we work with they tap into a different audience and I love that a rep there can kind of bring a whole bunch of solutions to a practice not just a single device so for us dental you know direct worked and then we kind of evolved and grew into working with some distributors but really depends on the level of expertise in training working with a couple of distributors in the United States yeah which ones so our cameras are sold through been Co Darby we just started with BENCo carries them Leicester Dine carries them so we've got a few great distributors out there or carrying the cameras and it's easier for them especially on like a barrier or protective barrier so sometimes for a practice they might buy the cameras from us but then they're going to a reseller dealer to buy kind of the disposables that they're buying on a regular basis you know it's really word like

 Howard: I think it's amazing is there anything you wanted to talk about that I didn't mention no I think we covered a lot

Brent Herman: I think telling industry super exciting to us the cameras are fantastic I mean that is just an easy win we have so many like on dental town a lot of the message boards just talked about it's great every room really great price great service we're really proud of that and tell it industry is really our passion we want to see this grow and evolve and open up new doors for practices give some ideas for new dentist coming out of school for different approaches create some new revenue opportunities for private practices be more efficient for public health programs of how they can reach new patients with limited resources and then for group practices and DSOs to really kind of connect in to do opportunities to communicate and collaborate among their team tap into their communities and really just kind of change the game of how dental care can be delivered

Howard:  I see that you're gonna be at the national mobile dental conference the national mobile dentistry conference February 28 and 29 in 2020 norlan No what do you know about that me what can you tell us about that meeting 

Brent Herman: that's been a really cool effort from some forward-thinking provide Melissa Turner who may have been I think she's been on your cut on your podcast has kind of I heart mobile Facebook group which has blown up and really the talent industry in mobile dentistry is just a perfect fit I think they're in different settings it's a lot about hygienist seeing patients and then making referrals to dentists so she's done a great job with the geriatric tooth fairy in Florida I forget her name offhand but they're able to bring a lot of providers together there's a whole bunch of people speaking on tell it in distri because it's such a good fit and I think that's right before the Chicago midwinter and we'll be at the midwinter conference as well and 

Howard: what do you think you'll do better what do you think you'll some work out that the next three you're a CD HEA February San Jose what CD HEA

Brent Herman: that's a California dental hygiene educators association so that's just really the help kind of show some of the curriculum about telling industry that educators want and their hygiene programs we're in all kinds of shows we go to hygiene shows public health shows dental conferences telemedicine conferences we travel a lot because there's a lot of areas where telenet distri comes into play so where am i going to sell more cameras at the midwinter meeting but I think the group at the National mobile is kind of a small but growing group of providers who have this different model so that the 

Howard:so the mmm national mobile dental conference is can talk about mobile practices for your fort for your for-profit business how to create and scale and mobile program access to care and health equity cutting edge clinical software technology and apps the future of mobile and portable equipment tella dentistry and use case examples state specific regulatory and legislative information compliance for infection HIPAA CDC best practices for team I think II think that section and who did you say he's buying that the whole thing on this so Melissa Turner Melissa yeah  she was on talking about some of the mobile programs and I heart mobile dentistry which is a Facebook group that she has right I should and we're doing a contest so we're gonna pay for one mobile provider for their airfare their lodging and their registration and if they go to mouth watch. com /n MDC twenty20 they can give a profile of their program and apply for kind of a free ride to get out there to the conference um just one thing

Howard:  real quick so when my homies go to the NMD conference which is the national mobile dentistry comforts you know when you look at all the speakers I mean it's pretty much all hygienist and so why do you think it's more hygienists is because is tablet dentistry is the front line to tell Adem story I'm rolling out mostly with hygienists dental therapists things like that as opposed to dentist

Brent Herman: I think it's a pretty good fit I think mobile dentistry can thrive a lot of dentists don't want to be the one going out to mobile especially if they're gonna do some waiting and trying to figure out what the restorative that they're doing is so we see a lot of programs where the dentist collaborates with one or multiple hygienists the hygienists go out first they're doing the preventive care billing for that whether they're billing under their own NPI number or under the associated dentist and then the dentist might be going out and being mobile and doing restorative or it might be that they're referring in for the restorative that needs to be done in their brick-and-mortar practice but a lot of the national the mobile stuff is really this team effort between hygienists going out doing preventive care doing some cosmetic services and then a referral to the dentist or in some cases they're doing on-site restorative like the program you mentioned in Arizona they're sending a dentist on-site to do it it's just easier for certain populations for the restorative to just be done there 

Howard: all right well thank you so much for coming on the show I asked you to come on you didn't ask me I'm telling a story last and final question we're going into 2020 I think everyone's gonna see more clearly next year when everybody's 20/20 but what's the next big best biggest thing after this you've been writing this this next big thing for eight years what's the next big thing you think that might be peeking around the corner 

Brent Herman: I think it's gonna be this kind of technology integrating into more settings there's also some exciting stuff with artificial intelligence coming in to tell an industry so that data analysis can happen that it can kind of help triage and screen for a dentist who can then review where the IAI has been integrated but I think the big heavy lift is really getting it into more and more settings for medical providers to connect with dental colleagues for all of those kind of barriers to start disintegrating and really collaboration with the bigger goal of improved health care improves convenience I think big drivers of value-based healthcare are about emphasizing prevention about identifying those things and the big thing that we talk about is really when dentists think about the concern about these different approaches you know and I would love to kind of a sweep said I think when you look at how many patients don't see the dentist every year that's the real opportunity it's not the competition with the hygienists it's not reaching into these other settings those aren't patients who are coming into a private practice traditionally we want to find a way to get more patients more Americans into a dental home and if that starts by seeing them where it's most convenient for them fantastic they're gonna need some restorative they're gonna end up in a dental chair it's not gonna be like telemedicine where it's a prescription for a cavity being filled and it's happening remotely they ultimately need to get into a dental chair for treatment so let's figure out how to cheat those opportunities and get them into practices well actually

Howard:  I think almost a hundred percent of Americans saw the dentist last year it was just that most of the time they see them at a bar or at Safeway or filling their car with gas they they need to focus on seeing the dentist in the dental office is what I think you're trying to say but hey thank you so much for coming on the show today thank you for all that you're doing because in the day our customer is the patient and yeah we see the patients that can come into our office Monday through Thursday to 5:00 but what about the 4% they can't leave the nursing on what about the ones out in the rural out in the middle of nowhere what about the ones that just have more challenges of availability and access and and if it's good for my patient it's it's good for dentistry and you're very good for dentistry thank you for all you're doing for dentistry yeah I appreciate it our thanks so much for having me on all right have a great day take care.

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