Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1247 High Performance Practice with Dr. Justin Bhullar : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1247 High Performance Practice with Dr. Justin Bhullar : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

9/14/2019 6:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 79
Dr. Justin Bhullar earned his DMD degree in 2010. He realized there was only one way to get 5 years experience in 2.5 years so he started working 70+ hours per week. After a while that wasn’t necessary anymore and he now practices only 2 days per month focusing mainly on implants, wisdom teeth and IV sedation.  


AUDIO - DUwHF #1247 - Justin Bhullar



He has completed 5 dental office acquisitions, 4 start-ups and has helped multiple dental colleagues acquire, transition from, or start practices of their own.  Currently he owns and operates 6, 7-Figure dental practices all with high profit, negligible team turnover, and thousands of happy patients. He is known to be straight up and transparent about what it really takes to succeed in this competitive and ever changing dental market place. The path to success in business and practice ownership is never a straight line. He has encountered every failure you can imagine in pursuit of his goals. Everything from major financial losses to poor health to suffering relationships but ultimately created financial freedom and is more fulfilled than ever before.  He attributes his success to many things…..but reframing failure as an opportunity to learn and grow, coupled with shear persistence were huge  components. Be prepared for roadblocks, detours, and the occasional bridge collapse along the way.  He says, “If you plan to succeed you must be prepared for failure”…..Learn from those failures, course correct, and move on quickly without loss of momentum. 

He is an speaker and loves to inspire, engage, and share knowledge with others. He believes leadership, a bullet proof mindset, great habits, and consistent execution are the key to attaining your personal and professional goals.

Dr. Justin has invested over $1,500,000 in his personal and professional development. As well, has had the privilege of receiving mentorship from numerous Millionaires and two Billionaires in his short career. He believes the fastest way to 10x your results and grow your business is to model the success of those that have done it already. 

He has been married to his beautiful, talented, and loving wife Dr. Nav Bhullar for 12 years.  Dr. Justin, his wife and their 3 children currently live outside of Tampa, Florida and manage their 6 dental offices from 2000 miles away.  

He is the author of  “High Performance Practice: Management, Marketing and Leadership” and a contributing author of “Greatness 2018”, a book he wrote with ABCs Secret Millionaire James Malinchak and other successful entrepreneurs. He is the co-host of the High Performance Practice Podcast where they talk about everything from Leadership, mindset, relationships, wealth creation and the drivers of practice/business growth. Dr. Justin is also the Founder and Lead Coach of High Performance Practice, a dental coaching organization that helps dentists go from where they are to where they want to be in their practice and life. In addition, he is the co-founder of DentalBusinessMentor.com, a premier online training platform “For Dentists By Dentists.” His wish for you is for you to have the freedom to be in places, with people, and do work that bring you joy!



Howard:  it's just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr. Justin Bhullar who earned his DMD degree in 2010 he realized there was only one way to get 5 years experience in two and a half years so he started working 70 hours a week after a while that wasn't necessary anymore and he now practice only two days per month focusing mainly on implants wisdom teeth and IV sedation he has completed five dental office acquisitions for startups and has helped multiple dental colleagues acquire transition from or start practices of their own currently he owns and operates six seven-figure dental practices all with high profit negligible team turnover and thousands of happy patients he is known to be straight up and transparent about what it really takes to succeed in this competitive and ever-changing dental marketplace the path to success in business and practice ownership is never straight line he has encountered every failure you can imagine and pursue his goals everything from major financial losses to poor health to suffering relationships but ultimately created financial freedom and is more fulfilled now than ever before he attributes his success to many things but reframing failure as an opportunity to learning grow coupled with sheer persistence four huge components be prepared for roadblocks detours and the occasional bridge collapse along the way he says if you plan to succeed you must be prepared for failure learn from those failures course crack and move on quickly without loss of momentum he is a speaker and loves to inspire engage and share knowledge with others he believes leadership a bulletproof mindset great habits and consistent execution are the keys to attaining your personal and professional goals dr. justin has invested over one and a half million dollars in his personal and professional development as well as had the privilege of receiving mentor short mentorship from numerous millionaires and two billionaires in his short career he believes the fastest way to 10x results and grow your business is the model of the success of those that have already done it he has it married to his beautiful talented and loving wife dr. knob bowler for 12 years dr. Justin and his wife and their three children currently live outside of Tampa Florida and six dental offices from 2,000 miles away he is author of the high-performance practice management marketing leadership and a contributing author of greatness 2018 a book II wrote with ABC's secret millionaire James Mallon chalk and other successful entrepreneurs he is the co-host of the high-performance practice podcast where they talk about everything from leadership mindset relationships wealth creation and the drives of practice business growth dr. Jessop is also founder and lead coach of high-performance practice a dental coaching organization that helps Dennis go from where they are to where they want to be in the practice in life in addition he is a co-founder of dental business mentor comm a premiere on lining training platform for dentists by dentists is wish for use to have the freedom to be in places with people and do work that brings you joy it is just an honor to have you be on the show and I just want to start with your book which you can buy which is available on Amazon and there's um my gosh there's ten chapters of this book I'm afraid if I you don't want to answer these questions because then they won't read the book but I'm gonna start with chapter one chapter one controversy practicality and experience how does how did you even why did you name chapter one controversy practicality and experience and what does that mean to you sure well personal I 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: want to thank you for for having me here and I'm always really excited to deliver some value to two dentists and this is a great opportunity and platform to do that I want to thank you for for everything you're doing for for the dental profession so I knew it'd be a hit for my show if I had dentistry he's very own baller I mean I would I would change your name from Euler to baller because when you hang out with kids in their 20s they want to be a baller when they grow up so she doesn't want to be a Justin baller Buhler thin baller yeah listen we change my name listen no so controversy practicality and experience why is that chapter one and what does it mean hey well I mean without diving into too much detail really I think in any industry you have a lot of information floating out there and you really have to be able to sift through it so one of the things is experience helps you sit through and  mentors help you sift through and there's a lot of ideas and concepts and strategies floating out there that maybe aren't based on a lot of facts as well we do have certain debates that are ongoing and Dentistry anything from fee-for-service to the PPO debate to corporate dentistry SD the public enemy number one etc and I really wanted to just address some of these things some of the other issues we talked about our things about general dentists doing specialty type procedures and you know talk a little bit about the specialists with an abundant mindset and those that don't operate with fear and scarcity and really support the general practitioner or some of the most successful specialists friends that I have we also go down certain myths about practice success and failure you know what really works and what doesn't and just get down to the crux of some of these things I'm a real big fan of diving deep into hey here's some information we have you know what's what are the facts what's root-cause what's the right strategy and how could we share these strategies ideas and concepts to help shed some light on things that perhaps people aren't talking enough about so Howard: what is dental plaque enemy number one if you just graduated from dental school two months ago with two hundred eighty five thousand dollars in debt what is public enemy number one yeah so I don't necessarily think there is one big thing

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  I think there's a there's a number of small little things that may determine whether or not we we succeed or fail in a particular area now if I were to boil it down to one thing I'm not sure how much the guests are reading certain books and whether they've read extreme ownership boards things like obstacle is the way or books like that like this but one of the things I was looking at is usually the biggest issue is you so oftentimes we were not where we want to be it's generally if you're honest and if you have the strength of character to say hey this this really is me it's a me problem I'm not where I want to be because and we spend less time with the victim mindset looking outwards and you know blaming it on our team or the corporate industry or the fact that someone is marketing up the road you know and etc  and we just kind of look within and start with the right mindset I think if we could do that and then collaborate together as dentist says as a whole you know just coming together versus colluding I think it's just a huge benefit so to me I would say the number one threat to not just dentistry any industry is really one is the folks kind of getting in their own way and 2 is a lack of collaboration I think collective intelligence and sharing intellectual property is the future I mean if we're not doing this and we're not supporting one another in this way you're gonna start to see things trend downwards but rising tide lifts all boats right 

Howard: well the correct answer was public enemy number one is a musician flavor flab and it's a rockin hot band so you missed the whole answer to the question um you know I I just I know I've said this on this show too many times but um I I don't buy DSOs because Wall Street doesn't buy I mean I'm uh I'm gonna be 57 this Thursday how old are you I'm 37 so you do you remember orthodontic Centers of America do an IPO on NYSC

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  I'm so very young when that was taking place but I've studied a lot of this stuff historically so yeah I mean they did their IPO it all failed fell apart and we kind of had our second wave of things starting to take place and now we're really you know seeing the engines turning cetera so you know time will tell where things go but it definitely does seem to be trending upwards and consolidation is happening at a rapid rate but

Howard:  but my my issue is if they're all that and a bag of chips Wieck and snapchat go public and not Heartland I mean orthodontic Centers of America I mean my gosh what year was that that was a it ended in um let's see or throwing stars of America there 10 K I'm looking at it right now I mean I mean my gosh come on where's the date try to guess I was down in 2003 so  how can snap how does America and Canada need snapchat but not dentistry so if none of these people can go public because Wall Street Wall Street by the way I have 40 thousand followers on LinkedIn so I'm always getting Wall Street people asking me you know they're  looking at the these numbers and they're confused and I said there's nothing confusing about it I mean you're just buying sales you  borrow a million dollars you buy your practice as a million in sales and if you want to go to two million you're gonna need to borrow another million and by and by time you get to a billion in sales you have a billion in debt and they're like wow I I mean I mean you're Canadian would mr. wonderful buy that on Shark Tank what would mr. wonderful say to you if you pitched him that idea on shark top so what would he say he'd say you're dead to me even if you're a baller you're dead to me so why is dsos get so much attention when they can't get Wall Street's attention 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: I think it's a good question and one thing I want to do is just just back up for a quick second I think when we talk about DSOs I think it's very important to understand what it is and I I don't you know hear the term thrown around a lot and I talk to people that are better in the industry but they're confusing it with certain things and idea so the simplest form of is it's a management company you have a management entity that has centralized services that ultimately does the nitty-gritty business operations type deal now on the other side you have group practices and things of that nature that are very different so I think it's important to understand that now the other side of a of a DSO is that they have you have got the map look at them on a big scale if you look at the Aspen's the heartlands the you know Pacific dental serve and now everyone you know in between we're starting to see that really the bottom line is this their model is based on a partnership with the dentist right and at the end of the day that model is taking up money from one entity putting it into another and then figuring out a way around this whole maan dentist ownership so I'm not sure maybe there's a possibility due to inherent risk and certain issues surrounding the way the the companies are structured that could very well be something that is an inhibiting factor and I also think people don't invest in things they don't understand this is not there's not a lot of public awareness of how these things work so you know I don't have a great answer as to why they haven't gone public but there's no argument that dsos are kind of they're being produced at a rapid rate we're starting to see a lot of folks come in invest in these things a lot of private equity money has been put into these ventures so there are smart intelligent business folks investing based on the a bit of multiples of these practices and companies it just hasn't gone public and I'm probably not the right guy to ask why because I have not done in public if I were to if I were to guess I would leave it at what I just said there okay well I love the way you're so honest about the fact that you do have a passion disorder for dentistry

Howard:  I just love it man if you have a passion disorder me and you need to start the the American North American passion disorder dentist I love you passionate but she just graduated two months ago she got two hundred and eighty five thousand dollars was her first was her first step not not where she's gonna be when she's 57 where should she go net today so when

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  I started I came out of dental school guns blazing taking every Cu course that was available working my butt off really just trying to to earn as much as possible rapidly pay down debt and look then I went on to practice ownership and you know made every mistake in the book and one thing that really realized uniform for anyone who's about to embark on anything it starts with just stopping for a minute before you start and really asking yourself clearly what it is that you want so  many folks come in a dental school and they really just adopted the ideas beliefs concepts of the people that were in that environment with them right we've all heard the idea here the some of the five or ten people that are closest to you and when you take a look at that really you gotta stop and say okay yeah this is kind of what I think this is what I want but now why do I want it okay and I think if I could work with Doc's on figuring that part out it doesn't take long we just extract the information and learn why you want what you want it helps line people up in a direction that they actually want to go versus you know meandering around and listening to all the new advice out there so if we were to come up with some hard and fast rules I would say well the number one thing you want to do is you want to get aligned with what it is that you value what it is that you want the lifestyle you want the type of dentistry you want to do the environment you want to work in you want to reverse engineer that so that's part one and then as well I think you want to be careful with who you're surrounding yourself by ultimately anytime I look around at my results they're generally the same or slightly better than the people that I'm around but over time what really stretched me what really helped me grow is actually being careful about who I want to surround myself by if I want to get fitter and healthier I surround myself by food healthy people if I want to grow in my practice or business I'm going to surround myself by people who are further along the timelines so once you know what you want I think the best thing you can do is say hey I know what I want to know why I want it that person he or she has it and then let the mentor you go there listen ask questions that might be in the form of a mastermind that might be in the form of just simply picking up the phone and saying hey I'm new I'd love to learn from you it may be through books they've written maybe ultimately working with them as an associate so I think that's really  important is to find somebody that looks like who you want to be they're just further along the timeline than you so that's where I would start Howard and have a few other little pearls for new grads that I would go that you're

Howard:  some of the five people you hang around with that's why I have to have a spongebob backpack five grandchildren who insisted oh my grandpa should have a spongebob backpack so I disagree with I think you should get rid of all the people you hang around with and and if you I want to be healthier and lose weight you shouldn't be spending time with me so you need to take so-so but when you start with c/e yeah she's got to think yeah business or clinical yeah yeah how do you Eddie how do you how do you get your mind around that it's just

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  so before we get into that I mean there's a couple of things that I think I would like to add in the minds of a few different folks and one of them is effectively the idea of saying hey look everyone comes out with debt there's tons of debt there once you understand where you want to go you've got the mentors and stuff it's really important to focus on things early like debt reduction so I know there's a lot of debate and that's one of the things we talked about in the controversy impracticality chapter is really just your people said just hold on to that student loan debt as much as you can there's tax advantage or others say pay down rapidly and I'm always of the opinion liquidity is so important I think it's  whether it's in your business or personal ideally it's good to be prepared for harder economic times it's always important to have debt reduction at the forefront in my opinion so I would recommend that people start really thinking about how they're gonna chip away at this and it's gonna happen with you know slow but then there's gonna be some real massive reductions you can do if you get intelligent about tax planning and these sorts of things off the back so just because you're not earning too much today don't think about you know oh hey that tax planning stuff that sophisticated stuff is for the multimillionaires not for me you know I would say that for sure as well work with the sophisticated business operator if you plan on owning your own practice don't just jump right in and if you do planning on jumping right and definitely it a mentor who's who's done it so the segue to the CEO aspect yeah absolutely you should invest in CE early and for the rest of your career the question is what do you invest your  money into and again I hate to give a general answer without being specific but it really depends on what you want you see I've had some Docs where I'm coaching and they say to me Justin all I want to do is these three procedures I want to do what you're doing wisdom teeth IV sedation implants just a little bit of general dentistry you know I can help guide that into B do a little differently others come out saying I don't know what I want and that's the majority I would say so if you don't know the best thing for you to do clinically is to just start taking courses locally start investing in things online so they're more economical for you don't have to fly out and take twenty thirty forty thousand dollar programs just because your buddies are go ahead and be conservative and invest in CE logically not emotionally so the emotional way say my buddies are taking an implant course forty grand and we find a way to drop 40 grand my suggestion is stop and think about what it is that I want to accomplish and then go after low-hanging fruit like you can take a sedation program start doing the bread-and-butter dentistry and do these services all at one time and be very profitable very productive without having to take a bunch of CE in other areas so it's really a customized approach the bottom line is if you take nothing from this take this get clear on what you want why you want it and then go after it with and find the CE courses that fit that vision start early invest for the rest of your career now on the business side really if you plan on being an associate doc that hey look I never want to own a practice I just want to work for somebody then your  best thing to do is find a sophisticated business operator practice owner and work for them now you're the other side which is straight up hey look I want to own a practice now or in the future then it behooves you to go out there man and you've got to start knocking on the doors of people who are successful owners a game further along the time then then you join the masterminds take the online programs and the lowest hanging fruit is find a mentor guy like yourself 

Howard:  you're married to a dentist right I am so a lot of people are saying that one of the strengths of a DSO is that when I was in school a lot of people say it was a male profession the males all want to own their own farm and now that half the classes women that's gonna be the fuel for dsos or group practices did you buy that or do not buy that is that a sexist untrue remark or is there or is there something to that 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: we've been married 12 years and we have three you know kids that are 5 and under and so  we're really busy with all that and one of the  things that math has been at a crossroads a days hey how much time do I spend with dentistry and all this time and effort I put into this and balance that with the guilt that I feel of not being with the kids etc so you know it's really one of those things where hey I don't know what a lot of women out there are going to feel I don't know if they ever want to start a family so again it's not generic saying hey there's more women out in dentistry now which means there's more opportunity for people who don't want to own businesses I think you know what to a certain extent that's a very broad generalization and it's not taking a lot of other things into consideration one of them being what is the individual goal of the female graduate it may be it may be that 100% of the one who you know open up practices it may be a hundred percent of them that they don't want to work for DSOs now I'm exaggerating obviously but I don't think that alone is enough information to say hey it's gonna trend this way or that way there's missing pieces of the puzzle but in general if the workforce continues to produce dentists if the dental schools continue to produce dentists with the mindset that they don't want to own they want to put lifestyle first work three four days a week no evenings and things like this and they just want to collect a paycheck and go home then yeah there's room for that with large corporate entities as well as dentist owned DSOs there's room for that with what we are doing as well which is all dentists toned and we have a number of male and female docs working for us that that may have similar goals and sometimes different so again you know look I don't want to I don't want to broadly categorize people but yeah there's a potential for that if that's their mindset and I'm mostly want to know I'm mostly concerned about did that maybe ever get out of NAB's timing or is it still stuck in that belly oh my god yeah so we have Joanne who is six months old now and it's that's it man we are done we got three now been made it out he made it out yeah so we're super happy with with you know the the kids that we have and we're just working on it making sure that that we integrate our life and our work and all that together now to your point with NAB her she's chosen to spend a lot of her time working alongside me she's my partner not only with the kids she's my partner in in the business as well and the practice growth and and especially stick in a really keen interest in the marketing side and just invested very heavily with some real marketing gurus out there over the last five years learned a ton so she doesn't practice much anymore at all so so then you have a Arjuna bleymeyer girl and three was what third

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  third is joven yeah Arjun is five Maya is two now just in August and joven is six months old so boy girl boy boy oh boy do they play together they're good you know got between the first two so it was stretched enough that it's an interesting dynamic but I think it's all gonna work out you know by the time they're 20 they're all be best friends I just love that picture man that is one adorable picture yeah um so I gotta ask you this is demonstrating sensor I don't want to talk about anything anyway everyone agrees oh I'm gonna go right to the controversy Howard: and when you tell a young kid to do IV sedation why why should she learn IV sedation as opposed to just have a dentist anesthesiology come into your office especially considering it's the most dangerous thing we do okay sure I mean 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: I we can consider we can consider that I mean on how you classify dangerous right so really it comes down to the knowledge information and training that yeah and at the end of the day I don't think if you're prepared for emergencies and these sorts of things I don't think things are very dangerous but let's back up a step here so if you're going to do sedation you don't have to do IV sedation you see in dentistry we call it IV sedation everywhere else they just call it sedation so it's not you know we're  anesthetize the patient with X Y or Z drug you know if I go to a course with a bunch of medical doctors I've taken airway courses with anesthesiologists one of my cousins who's now C geologist nice the IV sedation she says what do you mean you know IVs just the route of administration of the drug at the end of the day you need to understand what the drug does it's its therapeutic window you need to understand what the effects are the  interactions you need to understand them taking appropriate medical history and when things do hit the fan when you're working with certain drugs that can cause obstruction or apnea airway management is important and if we backed up all the way any good program out there is gonna teach you how to do appropriate patient assessment so I'm not saying be a cowboy in sedate everybody out there but if we're looking at the American Society of Anesthesiologists classification and you're dealing with a si one or two patients the chances of you running into any issues using benzodiazepines or things like pran's alam or IV root midazolam or maybe introducing some fentanyl into that equation or hydromorphone depending on where you practice generally you're going to be in very good shape now what I encourage anyone to just take a weekend course and go do it absolutely not absolutely not I think you need adequate training you need to get that done but you don't have to be in a nice attest to do it particularly if you're just dealing with single drug or dual drug sedation and you've got the narcotics out of the equation really you're gonna be okay

Howard:  nice nice answer or or she could just go back to grad school and become a dentist anesthesiologist because the one thing that you know the math is very clear the average so the average specialist makes three hundred thousand a year and the average dentist who owns the practice makes a hundred thousand dollars a year more the person who is an employee in the office so that's right if you got two hundred eighty-five thousand dollars of student loans and you become any one of the specialist if you became a dental anesthesiologist you'll make that in one year so you see some here's the most controversial thing that you said in my mind that I  had I want to ask you said you believe dentists run DSOs had the greatest potential to elevate the public's perception of Dentistry and generate fulfillment for the practices or genes is that a dream was that a Disney movie do you think that way you were watching the new Lion King which I seem like that so you want to answer your question

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  I just wanna I just want to make a statement because I know working with Dennis sometimes we get hung up on one word or another and I don't want to be in a position where we got a bunch of anesthesiologists out there saying hey you know what we're highly educated and and dentists should be soliciting their services I absolutely think there's a place for it I think depending on the volume of sedation you do etc and the type of practice you run there's a place for that you have to have certain overhead considerations to consider but the end of the day go out there get trained in sedation it's gonna serve you well don't be a cowboy learn to take appropriate medical histories and have somebody train you like a dental anesthesiologist and we're further cases that need to be referred but to your point about the  dentist run DSO is now first of all I I think again there's DSOs there's DDS O's there's dental partnership organizations there's group practices and all this terminology being thrown around what it all comes down to is the bottom line is who's in charge of making the day-to-day clinical decisions who's in charge of setting up structure systems processes cannot only run the business side but the clinical side and in my opinion the  most sophisticated business owners some of the most successful some of the most not only strategic but  very effective have been those that have been trained in a particular industry they did the work like a dentist and then also developed this incredible leadership communication whose skills entrepreneurship is at their core when you marry those two I think you have the best chance of developing a DSO or a number of these where you got the entrepreneurial ventas to partners with the dentist that doesn't want it and they both really understand each other okay now if you're if you're thinking hey but it's the same thing for the private equity firms now what I'm finding is that these private equity firms also are involving dentists they agree that dentists should be at the forefront now it's not just some random CEO typically there's a chief dental officer someone there to help with that side of things now does that mean that if dentists are not involved shit's gonna hit the fan it's never gonna work and you know it's all doom and gloom not at all I think there's tons of examples and we won't go into specifics but tons of examples of successful DSO models that are operating there and they don't involve dentists up the core they're all business but at the end of the day they've done a good job of understanding hey let's train the docs on proper ce let's support them with communication let's give them the skills they need to succeed here this comment comes from one simple fact and that's my own biased opinion because we have a dentist from DSL and I find that it works so well when you have that marriage that I talked about with the previous dental experience your current coupled with the entrepreneurial spirit I think it just it's just awesome and if you could partner yourself with these Doc's I think we can we can certainly have a great chance at providing great services for a number of dentists out there and they can it's relatable

Howard:  by the way I said you know the average dental specialist makes a hundred thousand more than the average general dentists a general dentist who owns their own practice makes a hundred thousand or so if you want to be a specialist dental anesthesiology is one another one is dental veterinary and  when I see dentists who refuse to treat hippos because they have 36 sharp teeth and are one of the world's deadliest mammals that's just so hypocritical so so that's you back to now being a woman what percent of the graduating class do you think doesn't want to be a business owner what would percent are listed to you and saying thank god there's guys like you because I just want to work for you I don't want to do what you're doing yeah sure and do you think that ratio is different than when I got out of the class of 87 but what I can tell you so what were the stats in 87 you know what percentage of people coming out where I would imagine it's the vast majority wanted to hang up a shingle open up the door and start seeing patients at their own right yeah I graduated May 11 and I had my dental office out in September 21 it was the four month yeah

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  so we are we are operating in a market that is very different so this idea of you know if you do great work they'll beat a path to your door or this idea of you know just  invest in time in to see and you know get the best technology and people will be there it really doesn't apply I mean 10 years ago you could open up a practice and generally I'm not saying it required something different the market the competition was very different there and because of that now you're more vulnerable to some of the mistakes you make if you make cash flow management errors if you're not marketing correctly if you're not managing this this appropriately from the business side of things I think you're more vulnerable to have a mistake that you can make early on that can haunt you for the rest of your career now that being said percentage-wise when I talk to Docs it's about half and half that I see anecdotally I mean I have no study on this and I'm not I'm not about to state a percentage because I'm unaware of that but I would say about half and half want to work in a group practice setting or want to be involved with multiple practice ownership or have their own practice at some point in time and others just want to associate for the rest of their career and I think that's probably pretty good I heard you say something years ago and that was that where it will probably settle is kind of 50/50 I believe your son made that comment years ago right but I'm not unlike the lawyers you're gonna see half DSOs half you know cottage industry and let's likely probably little happen here and that'll give people plenty of choices so when you come out again I don't know what you want but don't be sold with other people's ideas beliefs and stuff don't get hung up on the idea that you must be a practice owner now people say to me well that's easy for you to say you know you've done multiple startups acquisitions your you own and operate a number of practices so look you know it's easy for you to say come work for me that's not what I'm saying at all what I'm saying is don't do it just because you think you should go work for someone figure out whether this is the right thing for you to do and then once your shirt's what you want go all-in get it done I can't believe people I mean attitude is everything

Howard:  I mean either thinking hope growth and abundance or you think in fear and scarcity and I'll meet I'll meet associates that worked for some big DSO and they got all this bad - then they go open up their own practice and I heard ask them well how did how did the big DSO that's managing 500 - what were their systems and they didn't learn anything like dude you are working if you're working for somebody that has two or more offices that's top 10% of business if they got 500 offices that's top 1/10 of 1% how do you how do you not be humble enough to think that if Rick workman can run a thousand offices that he just might know something more than you I mean who would've thunk it I ve Rick workman you do something very different you do it like Rick workman as opposed to Aspen Aspen's branding its own name and offices and Heartland when they acquire an office that they keep it your name you have seven offices in Canada and they all have their original name why are you not trying to brand Nike Budweiser adidas and leaving them each to have their own unique name well where does that come from Kroger does it by the way Kroger which is the second largest distributor in America buying Walmart in grocery like how here in Arizona its fries in Kansas it's Dillon's there some of them are called hinky dinky why are you doing the Kroger thing and not the national branding thing hundred percent

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  I think it's a great question Howard do you for one minute I just before we dive into such an important topic that I I just want to close the loop on the business ownership versus non business ownership and the idea are people coming out of deciding what they should do because I think it is huge huge huge if you make the wrong decision it can it can cause a lot of pain and discomfort for a long time so you know I'm a big mindset guy not unlike yourself you don't get to where you are without controlling this thing right and the bottom line is a lot of dentists they didn't thinking like that's what I was supposed to do practice ownership is the thing and really at their heart in their her all they want to do is just great clinical dentistry treat their patients very well produce quality outcomes and you know goes back to Napoleon Hill back in the day he wrote a great book Think and Grow Rich and one of the things he says in there is you know the mind can  conceive whatever the mind straight the mind can't believe whatever the mind can conceive and believe so it's the end of the days you end up with these results that you know whatever you believe in your mind is the outcome so really mindsets huge business ownership sometimes is incongruent with the value system and the lifestyle that the dentist wants you know it's not for everyone it's very you know you're gonna be on weekends thinking about your business when as an associate you can just go home and that might not be something somebody wants you may not want to be around a dinner table with your family you know jotting down ideas about what you can do next week and to be quite frank I think the chaos of business is a bit unpredictable and some people want a recipe book and cookie cutter approach and business doesn't offer you that so really just get clear on what you want before we move on now I know I know our time is limited so I'll jump down to you I'm not letting you go man you're too good ok well I'm I'm here for you is as long as it needs so really then if that's the case it comes down to you let's get really clear let's not do it for the wrong reasons and the only way to find out if it's for you or not is to talk to people man get in there go to the courses and get into masterminds and the groups and stuff of people who own and then really find out if this is what you want you know there's no shortage of people out there who want certain things like people may say any just and I'd love to have six practices and I'd love to live here or there and I'd love to be able to just do IV sedation wisdom teeth all these sorts of things and that's what I want then I say that's great I mean that's  where we start why do you want it now let's figure out if you're gonna be willing to do what it takes to get it you know and I think a lot of what  we're not able to do is really understand what it's going to take and then halfway through climbing this mountain we think hey man this is not where I want to be and you look back down you say I've climbed this far am I going back down I'm gonna get to the top you get to the top realize you wasted all this time you know not to sound cheesy but it's so true I see it time and time again and I think it's why so many dentists are not fulfilled they've lost their fulfillment they've lost the sparkly that they're jaded or bitter about it they just can't  tolerate it so they turn to things like gossip you know substance abuse and all kinds of numbing things because it's painful when we've made the wrong decision and you don't feel like you can get out so him and there's a lot of people out there that are gonna help you make the decision not everyone's trying to sell you on their way I'm telling you I've met tons of dentists not unlike yourself Howard who are just so giving theirs they just want to help people they want to help them make the right decisions they want to share their failures with them so seek those people out before you decide what step taking a day and 

Howard: speaking a substance did you hear a dentist of my town just got arrested for being a drug dealer that's crazy I've been going to him for years I never knew he was a dentist oh my god Kyle got it Kyle busted out but back to the main thing why are you and Hartland and Kroger not branding a national name

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  yeah so that's a good question Medina I don't think it matters just choose a path stick with it don't change course now at the end of the day people are gonna argue and say hey if I'm branded well that gives me all kinds of other things like I can market now is one particular name and I can market my services this way and there's economies of scales that comes from that and others will say well but if they're individually branded then you know you you don't the reputation of one doesn't back the other or they may argue that it's easier to to sell individual assets perhaps there's all kinds of ideas and concepts of why one's better than the other in my opinion I don't think feel strongly about one side I think you should just pick a path and stick with it and really in mine in our particular circumstance because we were acquiring assets along the way that already had their own name we weren't doing scratch starts in the beginning we've done them now but we were I wasn't doing that it made more sense to just keep the name of the practice the patients recognized it oftentimes it was the name of the city or town and oftentimes it was a great name for let's say a search engine optimization or just recognition so there's all kinds of reasons so I think you should just do what  fits your vision and good news is most dentists don't have to think about this stuff you're gonna stop at one practice name it what you want and move on

Howard:  I want to go and one of the biggest problems that I see in my mind is dentist will know that glucose spits out 23 ATP on a Krebs cycle but he never ever knows his own practice numbers well you talk about chapter through your book you can't manage what you can't measure why why is it 20 19 and you still have the number one practice management advice manager assist and a denture exponent owned by Patterson and none of them are hooked up to an accounting platform I mean these dentists are all running on quicken and there's not a single dentist where you can just walk in there and say just this okay that patient just had a cleaning examined by twangs yeah did you Net four dollars and eight cents after taxes or did you lose six bucks and so so we still live in the Stevie Wonder cottage profession where it's the blind leading the blind when is that when is somebody gonna do the obvious and hook up an accounting system to open dental so that these people just even can so they can just see for the first time in their life well yeah and the reason I'm asking you is cuz I'm damn impressed man you're managing seven dental offices from another six off six offices in another country Canada while you live in Florida I mean who the hell does that and how do you how do you do it what are you managing what are you measuring what what software do you use what dashboards to use tell me tell me the specifics how you get that done okay

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  so this is a really good point and you know it starts with this idea of but I won't jump down the rabbit hole different software programs except the bottom line is here of a software program learn to use it to its maximum capacity let it serve you okay I don't think we're letting enough where software programs serve us or not and the reason why is one we're not aware of its capabilities and two probably  more true is that we don't really know what we should be looking for you know what are we supposed to be measuring really and this is a generalization there's tons of people who know what they should be but for example if I were to ask the average dentist at a conference and I made hundreds all the time you know what sort of challenges they're facing oftentimes I hear this new patient idea I just need more new patients or my staff's driving me nuts one or the other so number one on that list is okay well if you need more new patients usually I'll ask okay well how many do you get now and some of them no some of them don't and then everybody say okay of those that no I say well how many of those new patients where do they come from you know you tracking where they come from virtually you know maybe five or ten percent and then when we dive deeper we say okay well great now we know let's say you know where your patients are coming from how many you're getting well how many calls does the office receive that actually end up needing answered so call answer rates how many calls that get answered turn into what's in the chair or patients in your office and of those people that show up when you present a treatment plan to them how many of them accept that and then how many people come in the front door label at the back door or there's attrition taking place slowly unseemly without your awareness and it's these things that matter the most the quality of your question is determine the quality of your life and it results and really the quality of your practice will be determined by these questions and metrics so I've already listed five or six there that you shouldn't be doing you should also be looking at your collections percentage your production is really relevant it doesn't matter what you do productivity wise there's core overhead expenses you should be looking at the number of days to your next new patient appointment there's so many too much to discuss in one sitting but the bottom line is see when you become acutely aware of the number you then can get come up with a strategy and get down because you know you know what the root cause of the problem is let's go to my dentist buddy at the conference who said they needed more new patients well if I went through that exercise with them and I found out hey this is really just a treatment acceptance issue you have you've got plenty of patients here it's really your diagnosis per patient and your treatment acceptance that's the issue here so let's work on that and you see every practice has something like that there where you can get down to root cause once you know root cause you can implement a strategy and then you can move forward instead of pulling your hair out and hypothetically coming up with reasons why your practice is not brought so that's my

Howard:  I think that was pretty rude to say pulling your hair out to some so I'm I mean III think it's crazy I mean you'll go to a dental conference and you know you're I remember I was at the sixth week of the panky Institute and this guy telling me everything's about  you know TMJ and  I said to him I said what's the what's the dental code for like a basic exam cleaning x-ray and he didn't know and he and I said what does that have to do with anything I'm like okay I mean they just so I think thirty two years into this you either just like free enterprise and business are you don't and III think you're right I think half these people um it's kinda like math yeah nobody's bad in math they just don't like math I mean yeah they say I was horrible in math and it's like well you're really good in farming so you're just really into farming and you're just not into geometry I think half these people don't even want to want it to learn math I'm going to get - I'm going to get - I'm already changed gears completely wish you there on you have a you have two websites we would - difference between high-performance practice calm and mental business mentor calm what are my homies doing going to high performance practice calm as opposed to dental business mentor calm 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: sure yeah so high performance practice calm is our coaching side it's my coaching sight I am the CEO of that company we have a number of different services there for her guests to check out it's effectively designed for practice owners or those people or those folks that want to become practice owners within the next six months to a year so we got can give them a real fast start and we can also for those that are business owners help them really identify some of the main factors that will help them take them to their next level of growth and success in their practice so that's what high performance practices it's very unique and customized to the to the individual and you know we believe that every single dental practice owner out there has experiences the same problems as everyone else there's really no unique problems there's some solutions that are unique and there's some solutions that are better than others and that are practical tactical easily implementable and that's what we're after because complexity is the death of execution as far as I'm concerned so we want to make it simple we want to not share not to call your book uncomplicated want to talk about the idea of uncomplicated this untag Lee and demystifying it so we make it simple and then being very strategic about what the dentist's next best move is and for some folks who might be increasing their their treatment acceptance rate for others answering the phones a little better for others cash flow management and there's always about there's always you know about a twenty twenty five percent increase that can take place in a practice over a period of time depending on what your current problems are so that that's high performance practices you're it's we're taking ideas and concepts that we know work that we are that we're using our own offices as laboratories for our have in the past and we know they work because we have the data to share and then teaching that to other folks in an effort to help them really elevate their game now dental business mentor was born from this idea of hey buddy of mine dr. Paulette to sin and I Paul's a stud he has a practice in New Mexico Illinois and just a tremendous growth curve on his practice so what we decided to do is partner together Paul and I and start with you we should produce something for in-house training I mean some of the concerns we have and why we hold so tightly onto dental team members and get held hostage sometimes is because we don't have the appropriate internal systems to a recruit people properly like recruitment of eight players be on board them properly and what I mean by on board is train them for success like not just hey you're gonna answer the phones get to it I'm saying how are you gonna do this well and and really succeed so setting them up for a win and then the ongoing training and what we call recertifications that's to take place in dental offices so we decided to do this brilliance there was an idea that we thought well let's do this for ourselves and grew into no no everyone needs this so we thought we could give people something they can sit at home and watch in their underwear or watch with their team fully clothed in their office you don't believe anywhere cuts down on travel costs cuts down on on the the idea of having to close down the office and you can get a bunch of short potent practical tactical information on business development for you to fill that void between middle school and private practice ownership and and you you 

Howard: think about half people want this practice ownership yeah they need a business mentor you know so where what would it what is the the crux of this program so if they if they say I want you to walk me through this I invested eight years of my life and two hundred eighty four thousand dollars in debt and I want to be a baller just like Justin Buller the dental baller um how much is the program and what exactly are you gonna deliver form

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  okay well these are really two separate things when we talk about high performance practice you can visit visit the site I encourage everyone to take a look at the site and have a look there's there's three tiers of the program there's a lot of information on each learn about us see our programs not for everyone and in fact there is an application process because we don't take everyone simply because we want to be able to go after and select the folks that are best aligned with us and that allows us to select candidates that we know that we can deliver immediate value to and they're there you know they have the goal of getting to the next level so the the tiers are different based on where you are visit high performance practice comm it's got all the information you need you can also set up a free call with me for 30 minutes if you like take advantage of that and there's some other resources on the site that I think would be valuable free gifts and things where you know we can we can offer you some information now there are business mentor side same thing visit the site check it out this is for somebody who wants business training ideas strategies systems processes that we have used in our own practices things we used to train our own teams and you want to learn about them watch them at your own pace rewind rewashed and be able to do this to embed the concepts and the fundamentals of business and practice ownership deep inside so you can start executing on this stuff and get the same results we have in our practice in our life and also there's a talk about the 

Howard:  I want you to go on and make a post on this on gentle town maker make a post somewhere so I can post this ideal but your free gifts you you can't buy this by the way on dental town if you make a post about your website and your free gifts and all that kind of stuff you only get one thread it's called the continuing education thread a lot of people don't assess on dental town I can have one thread that I'm a dentist and promoting my lecture and you know all that kind of stuff now every time you go on other threads you start posting the answer is to go to my website and sign up for this then it's called spamming but  if they sign up for your free 30-minute call with you and by the way this isn't commercially he didn't give me any money I asked for all three of his children to mix with my five grandchildren he said no but the five gifts are goal setting tool and productivity planner kpi blueprint practice report card morning huddle checklist marketing calendar step-by-step patient reactivation protocol and what is your goal setting tool and productivity planner 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: well all things bull setting tools designed and stuff that I had and used learn from all kinds of leadership gurus and coaches and things over the years and really just condensed it made it unique for me and put on paper will work for me so is that crystallized on paper and it's a tool that's designed to help people get really clear about what they want and then help them take big tasks and divide them up into little chunks so they don't seem so big you know and I really hope you get it a little bit faster so it's an effective it's an effective tool or at least has been for me to get clear to devour an elephant in bite-sized pieces and and make a move versus you know this time next year being the exact same position and and

Howard:  I've noticed that was successful be successful people wake up in the morning you say what is my biggest problem on the plate okay it's an elephant let's start there and then unsuccessful people they see that elephant and the next thing they know they start you know cleaning out their refrigerator they go to work and start organizing their desk and it's like yeah you got to start from the most waited problem and then as you get and when you're young and out of school I mean guy you come out of school and you want to accomplish like find things in five minutes and when you're my age you're 32 years old I mean you know ice of in between Thanksgiving and Christmas wrapping up the year like was their year and then planning and I always drop it about MLK Day you know it's after the holidays it's time to go back to work and these are the goals for the year and a my a just like you know this year if we can if we can do these three things would an awesome year and then you're listening to some kid who's twenty five and he's gonna try to do 48 things by Friday and so that you need to work from most waited to just waited and that's why goal-setting is so important you talk about your KPI blueprint they don't my homies don't know a KPI it's key performance indicators what would what is that KPI blueprint practice report card and will you post it on dental town yes sure 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: I can actually we do that now I mean going back to where you would set our de bout this idea visiting the site free gifts all this I mean look we are there to deliver valuable information to you if at any point anyone does not want this information and that's absolutely an opt-out you know people are so sick and tired of this idea of getting spammed and all that I can relate to that trust me so in no way shape or form or do we want people to feel that way just value generation and delivery is what's most important there anyway we can we can help and figure out a mutually beneficial way to work together as is always the goal now going back to the key performance indicator it's exactly what we talked about you know just certain things that you can can measure so that you can go ahead and and begin analyzing your practice from a very objective versus subjective or emotional standpoint we want to be able to get the data if the information and there's a number of companies out there that you can utilize to even pull the information but I think it starts with this like idea of hey now I know what I need to measure and then it's really up to you whether or not he measured enough I find that a lot of as dentists were left great analytical some of us and we had this tendency to really love more information you know I have an addiction to information myself so it's part of the fashion disorder it's a symptom of it you know and one thing though is you know really more informations great but it's the execution that matters the most and you're not gonna make any progress unless you implement and execute now there's when you talk to these guys who extract the data from the dentist software and say here are the problems you know only a fraction of the dentists actually go and take that data and then do something about it so it's great to have the information and it's great to have more but at the end of the day we must make an effort to go do stuff now to your point everyone wants everything tomorrow or yesterday right so now I want it now and look I'm the same I'm not sitting here preaching to anybody I'm a work in progress forever very much so like I operate from a position of learn learn learn I'm trying to take notes everywhere whether you're further behind the timeline or ahead I'm listening I'm trying to figure it out you know here we're in a platform where you know I'm sitting here with you talking answering your questions and delivering value and I think some audience numbers can make the mistake day hey this guy's figured everything out and it's really not the truth you know we know what we know but we don't know what we don't know and we're in constant pursuit of that it's why we're constantly evolving and adopting new systems and processes and and growing and developing and then sharing this information with others so in any case take take that information and see if it's helpful to you if it's not I'm very open and always hit me up send an email and say hey Justin this sucked I would love to see this and man oh man am I open to to delivering materials that are you know powerful and useful so

Howard:  nice um so here's the the other problem here's the here's the four thousand pound elephant in the room the skill set to get into dental school means that in college you had to sit in the library get A's and math physics chemistry and biology now you become a dentist and the skill set that's gonna win the day is relationships people person you got to be a leader not a boss you got to build a dream team you can and if you don't like that and this is why the dentists oh I hate selling dentistry no you actually just hate people because you're a mathematician engineer physicist and if you can't get this person motivated to party the third I mean a fool of their money oh is parts and I figure that it only 3% of dentists who retire have the money to retire and they have eight years of college so obviously ninety-seven percent of Americans can part with their money if someone motivates them how do you take this nuclear physicist Krebs cycle person who last night dreamed about angular momentum and teach them to present dentistry and have a morning huddle and be a leader and learn to love selling dentistry because they know that's what's best for the patient to part with the money to fix her teeth not to upgrade their Louie Vuitton purse mm-hmm yeah 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: well it's a great question Howard and look I think dentistry has like we talked about left brain analytical engineer type one plus one equals two and it must be that or else and you know as well as folks that are more introverted and you know there might be great with their patience in the sense that they're there to care for them and they genuinely really do care and you have the majority of them anyway and these folks want to do their best work but unfortunately where things start to fall apart is it's great to have the attention intention to do great work but unfortunately you can't do that if you are a practice owner that can't get people through the door to do great work or when they are there we can't connect with them or communicate them in a way that will motivate them to do the same treatment that we would and you know it doesn't take long before you know someone says you have to sell dentistry you know this is the way I look at sales sales is not something you do to somebody something you do for somebody and if you have a product or a service that's gonna enrich the life of the recipient man like go out there and talk about it so if you're thinking hey man you know I don't know I wouldn't want to do this work or I wouldn't want this for myself you have no chance of the patient doing the work yet but believe in yourself believe in the service that you're offering and it starts with you so I always ask every dentist why are we shy and afraid to educate the patients on or find ways to talk to them about these procedures one is always the idea fear of rejection you know they don't want to be the guy who says hey Doc can Diggins for gold in there you paint my face here next Mercedes Benz or something like that and unfortunately the introverts especially start to become more introverted this fear of rejection hey I put myself out there I offered it they don't care they don't have the money they don't want it and these paradigms and ideas and concepts start floating through our mind to the point where we just start to retract further into our shell and what I tell everyone is look at the beginning is so it's really important to do a couple of things one again I'll keep saying this over and over and decide what you want why you want it then align yourself with somebody who's already done so they can show you what its gonna take now that you know that you can decide whether you want to be the associate doc or the the owner doc now even further you're if you're the owner doc you're gonna invest in leadership and business development training and all these things regardless if you want to be an owner or not you must as a dentist you must invest in communication training you have to you have to learn to communicate you know your if you don't you're gonna end up the dentist's that I see have the greatest problems with their team and those that are producing the least in their offices you know the so-called labeled conservative dentist is the one who's not presenting the treatment who's not communicating appropriately it's the dentist who is not communicating properly with the team or very clearly articulating what their expectations are they make assumptions that they think everyone should be aware of and so on and so forth and things fall apart so at the core of all of this is effective communication which will allow you to build trust with other people other human beings and Trust is where it all starts when you have that then you can grow and progress together and come together to make intelligent decisions nice and back to the emotional stuff yeah you

Howard: you know some people think that people are a fear of success that there's a fear of success other people think it well it's a fear of failure is it fear of failure is it fair or success would it would it why is there such an emotional attachment to failure yeah and is it fear of success or as a fear of failure but what will the emotional baggage about failure which is why I think they're afraid to open up their own office 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: well it's the you know horse cart or chicken in the end idea here I mean who knows what's first but at the end of the day I believe that at the at the core of any inaction in our life whether it be getting in the best shape of our life or whether it be you know the idea of growing the business or being the best husband and father you know brother sister whatever it is whatever your goal is the best philanthropist it all starts with this this idea of this is what I want why I want and being sure of that and then going after it because all of us no matter how sure we are we wanted or not you're going to end up meeting you know people who are getting in your way or folks or speed bumps or roadblocks and I as week you talked about them on by all these bridge collapses that occur so you're  deep for reason why is important its unique to you so definitely have that but test your questions specifically I think it's fear and scarcity and these sorts of things these ideas that hey if I failed and people will judge me and you know today dentists they don't have a lot of I mean myself man I trust man I'm not your typical I failed many times but but most Doc's up until the point in graduate dental school really had been quite good students they've they've done well they're not used to this idea you know getting an F and when you get an F oftentimes it shows up or manifests in a way that you maybe don't recognize until it's too late and you start to have these bad habits in that form and you know poor poor business management poor leadership and it kind of spirals so the first step to do is to say hey again this is what I want get to know yourself you talk about this in your book as well as do I our know your strengths and weaknesses I mean knowing yourself better self-awareness better choices better results and it comes down to knowing yourself so you I understand completely you know what direction you're headed it now when you're clear on all that again going back to your point is once you're clear on all that it's important to recognize nothing that you do is gonna be failure free it's not gonna be in the absence of failure and it's so important just to be vulnerable and humble and recognize that and hanging around people who are telling you the truth about what it really takes that's honestly one of my biggest missions is just be straight-up transparent about what it takes to get there so people can understand and hear my failures you know whether they be clinical or otherwise you know the struggles you may be working on in your life you're balancing children marriage businesses all kinds of things I mean dude trust me there are things that basis and especially being a business owner you must be able to put out fires and deal with problems and if you're not interested in that then really it's going to be tough it's gonna be a challenge if you expect a straight line or problem-free journey so going back to what you said I think people are scared I think they're fearful I think it's hard to step out of your comfort zone I think being outside of it makes you feel stretched like a rubber band sometime about to burst so what do you do you release the tension and come back to what's normal and I think these things happen all the time but you take a look at some of the worlds you know most influential personal development dudes take Tony Robbins for example I mean you notice where all the magic happens is outside of your comfort zone you know being outside of your comfort zones where the growth happens and understanding and recognizing that failure is going to take place but if you can reframe it as an opportunity to be like man I learned something from that moving on quick don't be so worried don't be so scared find people who are gonna help you to give you the emotional and psychological support to get through it don't quit you can do it provided it's what you really want and

Howard:  by the way Tony Robbins he was on this show episode three zero one 301 yeah and my gosh leave it to my bad Irish luck it's the only one where the video doesn't come through so in Orphic and itunes but on youtube you just have to and the video froze I want to ask you the million-dollar question though you know we talked about you know when I meet every time I go to dinner or lunch or whatever was some dentist five years out of school they had five different associate jobs then and whenever you look at DSOs you know they live in an aquarium so everybody knows they have massive dentist turnover in fact the average associate only works a year but that's in private practice in India so is it doesn't matter these I mean trying to get a dentist to work for you so so how do you find a dentist associate and reduce the turnover and what do you consider an a if they get out of you hire new graduates out of school do you want them to have five years experience um what's your secret sauce for how to make money owning dental office having dentists be employees working for you it's just it's the hardest thing in all of dentistry and by the way go if you're looking for a job go to dental town comm classified ads it's the most overlooked thing on dental town there's five thousand free classified ads they're all updated they only last 120 days and it's one of the hottest sections on dental town to find a job or by a CAD CAM half-off or hell you can buy anything on the on those classifieds for half off if you're into the use market but how do you find these dentists that want to be associates for you how do you reduce the staff turnover talk about that

Dr. Justin Bhullar:  yeah well absolutely you're right it's it's one of the issues I mean whether it be whether it be dentists or team members for that matter at the end of the day not having VA players or you know however you want to define that can be tremendous challenge a tremendous stress I mean I heard you talk about this in the past before as well one of the greatest challenges with turnover is not just the fact that you got to retrain and onboard and then redo people's work and all these sorts of things the other challenge is that actually the patient's perception of what quality work is is oftentimes retention of team members and doctors this consistency that they have you know demonstrates this of quality operation so it's definitely one of the things that's at the forefront for us is making sure that the people involved are there we want to be one of the best employers we want a genuine and sincerely appreciate everyone on our team we want to train them for success and support them we're not perfect at all but even if we can nail this 80% of the time we're further ahead and that's what we're really looking for I'm not looking for perfection we're just looking for better results now with respect to first put the recruitment idea so what do you want to have been associated part too many people just want to fill a hole or maybe have somebody come on to do work they don't want to do maybe they don't have the appropriate systems it's a little chaotic but they're in an environment where the dentist the patient population rate feels favorable and they decide that they want to bring someone on maybe they want to slow down and have someone fill that downtime whatever the reason is first of all understand why is it that you need an associate that's what I always ask everyone you know why do you want one why do you need one what's your plan here and then you've got to communicate that plan very very clearly with the candidate because see if your expectations if their expectations are different than yours that relationship is going to fall apart right no different than a marriage or a partnership that's gonna fall apart you see transparency and clarity of what you expect is so important because we doubt the people that aren't interested at all and then really sharing your mission your vision your value system and for those of you thinking what the heck is that rainbows unicron's fluff stuff maybe we'll save that for another time but it's so important it's really who you are as a office and where you're headed and what you stand for and the types of experiences you want to create for people you know and so what I what I tell folks is start with that share that with them tell them who you are scare away the people that never want anything to do with that and then go a little deeper with the applicant population that does want that stuff who has aligned values so the next step for me is making sure that you have set them up for success so for example for our dentists one of the things we we have is we have a what's that group where Doc's are continually posting stuff for all our dog dentists are helping each other okay no judgment nothing like that post whatever you want your errors your questions no matter how silly post them number two we have an onboarding process to start off with we paired the dentist with a mentor who's ahead of the timeline than them and we set goals based on their current you know productivity levels their current knowledge we recommend C courses they should take we really give them that and set them up for a win and then we also do bimonthly a video conferences with all of our dentists and we have them on board where we put up cases someone comes back from a CD course and teaches them we will will actually sit there and look at no difference then you know practicing free throws or putting as a professional you know athlete we're sitting there looking at x-rays cases etc saying hey what do you see here what would you diagnose treatment plan really just calibrating all that dialing all that in and you know whatever whoever you may be if you're a dentist practicing a number of years or you know just new out fresh out of the graduate school and you're still gonna want mentorship and support you're still gonna want people there in your corner to help you when things don't work out so if you can get really good at actually creating a supportive environment I think your retention will go through the roof so set expectations be clear about those and then support people to retain them and then the third most obvious thing would be is I'm not a huge fan of the associate driven model long term I'm not saying it doesn't work it's just not for me her to have partnerships junior level partnerships you need all partnerships where we can then take someone who has some skin in the game now we only do that once we know for sure that's somebody who were partnering with has the same values we work with them for a bit we understand we're headed in the same direction and we have complementary skill sets you see see where a lot of Doc's fail dentist says they they want them to work for them but they're not willing to say hey I'll wear this hat you wear this hat and together we will you know rise so these are these are some of the things that can be taken into consideration and if you do nothing but really be clear and transparent I think you're going to be off to a to a better start

Howard:  um well that's what Rick Kirschner says I'm recurse your comfort dental he has like 300 of them but they're all partners and he I mean he says he says you know you're not gonna make money in dentistry if someone doesn't have skin in the game and I see it I mean when you go to a dental x-ray all the dentist's owners sit in the front row and they're taking notes and then the associate sitting next students on face book the whole time that's why you know the what I see on the dental associates is they they're just referring I mean someone has a mole or to think Oh oral surgeon oh the kids crying pediatric dentists because they don't have a million dollars of practice debt and when you have a million dollars in practice that you're like I'm gonna take out that wasn't - I'm gonna do a molar root canal so it couldn't exert that so I still think this is what I'm saying you alluded to what Gregg said earlier that you know with lawyers you know half of them want to be in a firm and half want to be solo and Greg thinks that's where the markets going and when you go to these law firms if you bring new clients and work hard and burn the midnight oil that they make you partner and so I think I I think Indians monji said on this show that he thinks the the final DSO model hasn't even been in in in invented yet but if he had to invent it he said he would look to Price Waterhouse or Boston Consulting or some international law firm with offices in Washington DC Tokyo and London nice we wouldn't be looking at anything available today I mean we're still in the Stone Age of this thing but man when I see a dentist with with skin in the game they are saying you know what I really don't want to do a pulpotomy on a screaming three-year-old but we're gonna get her done and and then humans I think the number one skill of a human that separates them well I think the only thing that separates humans from the other animals like people always say well do you think well dogs you know they think well I think dogs and all the other animals I think they all react but I think true thinking is when you can disconnect yourself from reality and see yourself from 30,000 feet and invent stories like Disney and all these kind of things like that and I think what what he what separated Homo erectus from all the other Apes was I think they learned how to disconnect from reality and think and the first thinking was storytelling so humans are excellent storytellers so they always think well you know would be better for the patient if it ended on aesthetic well it'd be better for an oral surgeon it's like well where who was the ended on his first molar root cow I mean what was he born with 50 root canals under his belt I mean and this two-year-old does this mother she had to leave work come here bring you a baby and all you're gonna write is a piece of paper that she has to make another appointment somewhere else on another day maybe you're just a story teller and all you do is tell stories about why you don't want to do anything difficult in your life and in fact the weirdest thing is when they say well I don't like blood well why did you become a doctor shouldn't you have become a programmer or an engineer I mean if not liking blood is a foundation thought how did you end up a dentist surgeon working in the operatory your whole life so so people are crazy I'm convinced at 57 years of age that I am actually the only normal person on earth today it's tough why not you're the only normal person I could I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours and hours I'm trying to think and then the other thing they do with them what I love about successful people like you is that you're and I'm gonna end on this for five minutes every time but you're totally fine working in a company being the dumbest guy in the room I mean I'm always I mean I want to hire people that make me look like a cretin monkey who lost his tail and so many so many CEOs if they see a rising star they just crush them or get rid of I mean I would love to go to a meeting everybody says well that's not us Howard he knows the least about any of this stuff why do you think why do you think and then young Jim is like when I got out of school my god when I hired I just talked about illegal every young hygienist that walked in I'm smiling listen here and all that but I knew I was gonna hire the oldest one I mean I graduated you know May 21 this thing's gonna open in four months and when the oldest lady walked in I think she's a 55 I said look I don't know what I'm doing oh honey I've done this for 30 years you just do what I say it'll be fine and I'm like yeah that's what I want but they don't have the humility to say and in fact in fact I'll take it one step further I tell you how dumb I was I would look at the bite wings for I walk in the room say oh well they don't have any cavities and then sherry would circle this one and this line I mean I mean she was a hygienist for 30 years she could read x-rays she could write as she did everything better than me so why why are you cool with being the dumbest guy in the room and dentists physicians politicians lawyers they can't do that 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: you know I think first of all this listing one step back real quick came this idea of humans being great storytellers that's universally true man I mean you put it so well articulated that so well could not be more true and really the one thing we do have in our control is is the story is the narrative in fact we're alive so you're gonna choose to tie yourself stuff that doesn't serve you why not switch it up you know she used to tire you tell yourself the opposite because what you're telling yourself now is not consistent with the results you want to produce in your life anyways that's not here just wanna you know you do have control over that you can't control the weather but you can control that you can't control that your competitor you can control that and definitely grasp hold of that grab the bull by the horns because your narrative man I tell you it's really gonna predict the results you have in your your life in many areas so going back to your your question remind me specifically asked me I went off on a tangent there 

Howard: I'm I mean you're you're fine with being the dumbest guy in the room so so lost your ego how did you lose your ego and become a humble baller it's it's not gone 

Dr. Justin Bhullar: I'm not saying that egos gone completely you have to always have checks and balances everyone has it it'll always be there everyone wants significance recognition validation and all these sorts of things any human telling you they don't is has really not been honest and the reality is we all want that but what I've learned to do is I understand what my strengths and weaknesses are it's so clear to me what they are it's not ambiguous I just know and you know I work on my weaknesses but generally I try to surround myself by people who supplement those and this is where the best partnerships whether they be marriages or partnerships and work and the best teams form when there's not all this clustered skill set where everyone's competing for that small space now with respect to being the dumbest guy in the room so one of the chapters in my book the reason I like that is because that level of learning all mentality versus know-it-all mentality needs to change in dentistry you see we come out eight years you know I don't know talk 5% with respect to education in the world and I know all this information and you know over time we did humbled clinically but society still perceives us as these smart like L they know it you know all kind of folks and I think to a certain extent that can get to people's head it certainly did mine and to a certain time the beginning but you get humbled real quick didn't take me more than a couple of months to get humbled clinically and and understand that hey man there's people out there who have information that I need to become them let me now just go learn and I've maintained that it's a white belt mentality I'm never gonna lose it I have to battle with it sometimes you know and turn it down a notch because I might be you know look bottom line is this if you're talking you ain't learning anything okay you're just reaffirming the beliefs you already have if you're talking you're learning nothing so when you guess what happens you learn a thing or two so being the dumbest guy in the room is valuable because I can just shut up and listen and take notes and then go and implement and then get the same results they have 

Howard: I love it I think it's fantastic I will I love it and I love you and I only want to correct one thing you said wrong on the whole show you said you didn't like spam if you hate spam please send it to me I love candy meat I grew up on spam by god there's nothing better than a spam sandwich with cheese and mayo but I hate thanks so much for coming on my show I wish you'd start a thread on dental town I give me a place to post his podcast and I am I just you know my whole mission is to get more homies exposed to people that can set him on the right path and that would definitely be you good luck with those three kids that's your number one mission in life and have a rockin hot day thank you so much I appreciate it you're the man I appreciate your time always grateful for it all right and when you grow up you too can be a dental baller there we go all right already  


 
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