Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1196 Dr. Lawrence Neville, Dentist & Director at Dental Events Australia (DEA) : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1196 Dr. Lawrence Neville, Dentist & Director at Dental Events Australia (DEA) : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

5/24/2019 12:27:10 PM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 56

Dr. Neville has been treating patients successfully for over 12 years. He has clinically performed over 30,000 hours of treatment. He performs over 100 hours of continuing professional development per year to keep up to date with the latest techniques and technology. He is so obsessed with learning he now also runs his own Dental seminars company, Dental Events Australia to teach other dentists some of the latest techniques. He is a speaker and coordinator for the IAS academy.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1196 - Lawrence Neville

AUDIO - DUwHF #1196 - Lawrence Neville

His area of interest is cosmetic dentistry. This includes in particular, teeth straightening (orthodontics) using Invisalign invisible clear aligners and digital smile design. He treats over 100 cases per year in this field. He is passionate about creating perfect smiles that are life changing. He is also passionate about rehabilitation with fixed tooth replacements using dental implants. Other interests include sleep apnea, anti snoring devices and early child development (Myobrace and Palatal Expansion).

Being a nervous patient as a child, Dr. Neville spends a lot of time with extremely anxious and phobic dental patients helping to make that first step into the practice by arranging Skype calls or coffee appointments as a first visit to break down some of the fear barriers that may prevent patients taking that step into the practice.


Howard: It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing dr. Lawrence Neville he's been treating patients successfully for over 12 years he has clinically performed over 30,000 hours of treatment he performs over 100 hours of cee per year to keep up-to-date with the latest techniques and technology he is so obsessed with learning he now runs his own dental seminars company dental events Australia to teach other dentists some of the latest techniques he's a speaker and coordinator for the IAS Academy is that the IAS or TOCOM Academy yeah his area of interest is cosmetic dentistry this includes teeth straightening orthodontics using Invisalign invisible clear liners and digital smile design he treats over 100 cases per year in this field and isn't it and with Invisalign he is passionate about changing and creating perfect smiles at her life changing he's also passionate about rehabilitation with fixed tooth replacements using dental implants other interests include sleep apnea anti snoring devices and early child development myobrace and powell expansion being a nervous patient as a child dr. Neville spends a lot of time with extremely anxious and phobic dental patients helping to make that first step into the practice by arranging Skype calls or coffee appointments as a first visit to break down some of the fear barriers that many prevent patients taking them that's up into the practice dr. Neville has completed a one-year implant Master clinician program with the guide Institute in Los Angeles outside of work he is still competitive on the football soccer field and still trying to lower his golf handicap he loves music and traveling you know you're you're born and raised in Scotland right order reasons and it was a man in Scotland who you know it's so fun to go international because people don't realize there's two million dentist in a herd of 8 billion sapiens and the this it was a Scottish dentist who told me so well you know Americans don't treat phobic and scared and anxiety you know yeah we do we know for drugs or nitrous or yeah that's not treating it was if someone's afraid of a dog you don't just put him to sleep you can get in there and do their root canal but when they wake up there's still a scared of a dog and he was the first one that peeled my mind open that you know the way to treat anxiety is establishing a relationship based on trust and communication and the rules of engagement you raise your hand i'll stop and and the Scottish people are really leaders in this field did you is that without your perception –.

Lawrence: Yeah yeah I mean I suppose I was very lucky when I was at university I don't know if we're gonna talk about the same person nearby I was lucky enough to have a lecture from Scottish scientist called dr. Mike go that is the one I'm talking about yep so again he was a very influential in the university in his late she was very excited about the way he established relationships with patients in the way you overcame anxiety and in some cases without even using any drugs and gas any work on aesthetic even in certain cases.

Howard: Yeah his name's Michael a gown he's got about forty four hundred letters after his name he has the Berkeley clinic in a Glasgow and I went up there and with three of my four boys and just what an amazing man but a lot of those buzz words he says like like um hypnosis I know all the I know I know my homies in America a lot everything how that's crazy and all that's if I had a holistic medicine or whatever but my gosh you're a dentist you think it's ended on a therapy the patient thing it's a root canal that causes pain and when people put on their websites alternative dentistry holistic dentistry hypnosis all these buzzwords that they get people driving five hours to go to their office I know a guy in in San Francisco and this whole websites about how greenie is and and all of his office is ran by solar and he's not leaving a carbon footprint and and what's hilarious he has people driving in a car an hour and a half burning all this fuel and causing all this pollution and to go to his office it's off the grid so I don't care if you believe in being off the grid or on the grid or hypnosis or not it's a great way to start a relationship with a bunch of people that want to talk to you about their dental concerns.

Lawrence: Yeah definitely and we find the same thing happens so recently offer Skype consultations we do ten to fifteen minutes just for them to see the ruler normal person and everyday person just exactly the same as them we offer people got coffee shop downstairs we offer people instead of we're now reaching them to be in the coffee shop downstairs as soon as you're ready we'll call them there's no reason about the dental practice building up that anxiety instead they're in a normal environment beforehand and we offer them to say there's a sale free beforehand because a lot we were self-conscious about we really work in their smile and judgement from us and all these things are just small things that we're hoping the door to patients that come into practice that would otherwise come in.

Howard: I thought you've been from Scotland else right I thought you guys were all tea drinkers I thought the British were into tea.

Lawrence: Yeah that's another part of being a British were famous for not even unfortunately especially in the wake of Scotland's where I grew up we've got a string called iron brew em - Norman 400 loads and loads of sugar and causing massive Dakini and kids which is where their anxiety and fear comes from because they go to the dentist as a young getting me the Lord a to achievement rather than having the preventative care that luckily aim I think in North America is far better alison sarah from my patients mouths in Australia Maki I see patients in already the world from Southeast Asia from North America from Europe and my North American patients are the ones that must come into the dentist because the time to their education young men how to look after the team.

Howard: So I'm here a speaker and a coordinator for the IAS Academy on IAS ortho Tom tell us about your journey about making you want to go to the iaas Academy yeah so centrally Dyess academies in in very well-known the UK and it's expanded across into Europe and there's not a big leader in education in Europe and they've got really very good aim talks between dr. Teeth Qureshi and he's very very conservative a nice treatment and he basically as pioneered a language in bond the new taking at another level and it's been quite aggressive and be critical on a lot a lot of dancers who placed too many trials patches veneers and and he thinks a lot of tooth year can be restored you can affect like equity in the right position and in some conservative age bonding and his great cases that he can social have lasted ten twenty years and we receive patients a teeth and say if the room wealth so I just their philosophies fantastic but it's a really good force.

Howard: Yeah tip her she I did a podcast him me amazing what do you think of the IES Academy how does it work for you what are your thoughts on it.

Lawrence: Yeah so I am I came across dr. TIFF Qureshi and went to one of his lectures when I was in the UK before I moved to Australia and always really liked this philosophy Ami's fossa fear of being able to treat em most of different cases of where and to Earley and civilian to patients and by doing some simple orthodontic treatment and simple composite edge bonding and he manages to get patients really long lasting smiles and improves their oral health or for a long period of time I loved the fact that he had cases for 10 20 years from his own cases they well documented and then I also loved the fact that is Academy weren't really pushing any one system or one product upon you they really could just philosophy of treatment and that's what really they correct overall their teaching.

Howard: So um so the I mean in business you're supposed to create a supply what people are demanding and so is this we're hope when you got out of it old school how high up was ortho as compared to you know implants or sleep apnea are same day crowns with chair sight milling or lasers where where did you how did you get your in Sydney Australia what was that your top priority was a second third what was the.

Lawrence: Yeah I think ortho was always the interest I had in in dental school and I was always very very close to going back to studying to become a specialist orthodontist him and then the more and more I learned about her and the more interest there go and I was very lucky when I arrived in Sydney Australia and I managed to work for a specialist orthodontist for about four years in his clinic and from there men chest just in spiraled really and i've been supposed to be quite lucky love a good mentors and good training academies I saw I realized that I can do a lot of Lordran see work bestow have fun doing of the restorative stuff doing changing people's smiles and without going back to dental school and becoming a specialist orthodontist Emma also meant there was any really difficult cases ice no - they pass them off to the special as soon as you go to images excuse me.

Howard: Man that I that IAS or telecom talk about the orthodontic Hall of Fame he got TIFF Qureshi yeah Ross Hobson professional on key a new money I mean that is a that is a hell of a team of people that you're associated with I mean though those are all legends on there so what would you say to a kid so it's may 6 there I know it's May 7th there the Australians are at least a day ahead of us on everything and several years ahead of us on most things i'll give you an example I'm a Elon Musk started this new tunnel boring company and when people's hurt time he's like what is he thinking uh psych dude that's I saw this in Sydney decades ago I mean we always have to tear down houses like right now in Arizona they're expanding this interstate and they had to tear down actually like eight miles of houses it's like do the Australians they just tunnel under why are you tearing down houses so I I just think it's seriously my brother Paul lives in Sydney it's the only city that every time I go there I always wonder why I'm coming back and it's only because I got four kids and five grandkids but if I was like an orphan with no children or whatever I'd be living in Sydney with you but when you're opening up your practice in Sydney and it's six and we're gonna have a whole fresh class at dental graduates this Friday night 6,000 Americans are gonna graduate in dental school what would you say if they were saying well I gotta pay off my student loans would you think there's a bigger demand for implants or ortho or you know put them top to bottom of how you would do that.

Lawrence: Yeah and I think for me and Sydney we arere situation I often doubt my connect in the city centre of Sydney and generally people in Australia are very much into their health and look after themselves they go to the gym as an outdoor style everyone's in board shorts and bikinis and people are keeping their teeth in Australia people are not losing as many teeth as they used to and so for me that's all I parted on six it's all about cosmetics it's all about making people look good and if I was a graduate nowadays I don't think you can practice the industry without knowing some sort of orthodontics you don't have to be the best or their own system the well but you have to be able to get teeth into our reasonably good possession to keep teeth healthy over a long period of time I'm improves people's brushing who she was cleaning and the patients are motivated by and for me it's a sort their own things I think there's always gonna be a place for and finds people are always gonna Versa teeth but for me in the city centre said they where people are healthy people want to it good it's orthodontics and cosmetics.

Howard: So good orthodontic you think me the highest demanded item you think I think so Alan.

Lawrence: Yeah I don't think I'm wrong in cement Invisalign in Australia as a product is probably one of their strongest markets and the crew here exponentially overnight and I need you here very easily I know compared to the UK I think Invisalign is much bigger and scarier than it is in the UK but I think orthodontics across the board in Australia James is where conservative been getting into the other cosmetic orthodontics are short term orthodontics I don't know really in the last sort of four or five years is very much taking its place in Australia.

Howard: So you do over 100 Invisalign a year is that sure is that correct.

Lawrence: Yeah so hurried I started my practice in Sydney 18 months ago aim and in the first 12 months we managed to have over a hundred Invisalign cases.

Howard: So how did how did you go into Sydney that has a dentist on every corner I mean so I gotta tell you my journey about Sydney well what year did you get from Scotland to Sydney I here since 2010 or 2011 about about seven years okay 2010 I started lecturing down there in 1994 a port laboratory they bring me down and it was a 16-hour flight from LA to I go to Auckland New Zealand Sydney Melbourne Perth Adelaide Gold Coast I do with the city every other day and I did that about every five years for many many years and when I first went started going down there I mean they had a severe shortage of dentist and then there's a couple of government reactions a severe shortage and they let in like a thousand license dentists from probably like you and all these countries plus they opened up a bunch of schools and now it's very competitive so I so my 30 year Sydney went from anybody could be booked up a month advance to now it's really difficult so how did you just open up a practice in that crowded market in Sydney and and do 100 Invisalign cases.

Lawrence: So I think firstly I was lucky I was very lucky to come across a titan birthday mr. Adam and in Australia so I managed to sneak n came to this wonderful country in this amazing setting and by secondly I think that I came from the UK but it was already competitive I knew how hard it was to market and to advertise and to get new patients same so I think I looked at the UK and I look to the US where markets were already saturated and I thought what a dentist doing and one massive thing that we've done with the practice which has helped hugely as again in a year and a half we've managed to create about 130 Google reviews and the Google reviews of just brought patients confidence Altman and after they make a booking with us and I say only seems to be something that really helps and then another thing we've done is just create a low-cost experience when people come to the practice we base ourselves around the five-star hotel I constantly when I go to restaurants when I go to tails I look at what's good and what's bad I'm always judging customer service I'm always judging the smell of a place in the work of a place so we've just tried to build on being a five start into practice and and every day we walk in with your walk right into practice and receive us good and most bad and what we can improve on and we're just constantly striving to get better and better so I think we've really every area of marketing and advertising and some of its cost is a lot of money some of its being completely free stuff like Google reviews and we now have the ball roll and our referral system mr. Church because people have hopefully a great experience every time they come.

Howard: So so it sounds like um Google reviews was a big part of this I mean with that was a huge part Google reviews.

Lawrence: Yes I think Google reviews has been has been a huge part so we always ask patients why did they pick with us by the choose us who referred them and generally our picking me is through Google reviews that they've read after searching for a dentist in Sydney or they've been referred by a patient of the practice already so every patient that leaves our practice gets hands handed some business cards it's asked that they if they've had a good experience and if they say yes we always ask them to refer the family and friends so that we can look after them in just the same way.

Howard: Okay well Friday you know o56 dental schools united states are gonna graduate their class and they're Olga and their moms and dads are gonna be crying and all this Aria but if she listens podcasts on Monday morning I say dude I just walked out don't go I I didn't learn how to do one Invisalign case and now I didn't do one in dental school if she said to you I want to learn Invisalign what would you recommend that she do.

Lawrence: Em I'd recommend that she does as many courses as possible so find a reputable and company that's not pushing a product on you but especially more of philosophy and ground and educate yourself as much as possible find your nearest friendly orthodontists and hang out with them as much as possible there as much from you as possible a very good orthodontist and the forward thinking they're gonna teach you just as much as anyone else would I know the back of that you'll get lots of the Pharos the cases that you can't do and hopefully you start to be able to dip your toes in the water and again start really simple don't push some pictures have too much but yeah there's something that that all dentists are going to need to know in the next five years ten years.

Howard: And in in your orthodontic training where you're you're a lecturer for a speaker and a coordinator for the IAS Academy at IAS worth or a lot of the lot of the orto people are now starting to also besides Invisalign turn to get interested in sleep apnea snoring early childhood development myobrace pol expansion do you see that as a big factor in the orthodontic training or do you think sleep and snoring and all that stuff is really a sufferer genre.

Lawrence: Yeah I think so I think as a factor M nowadays and again i've been lucky that there's a couple of really really good forward-thinking orthodontists in Australia and you definitely with a early child development try to prevent all these issues that adults may or may not come across when they're a little bit older and i've got a real passion aim for when kids are 9 or 10 assessing them properly before they get to the age of 13 or 14 minutes a little bit harder and it's much easier 9 or 10 to go and just a partial sort of braces or binding and get nice expansion of power and hope for that encourages proper nose breathing rather than most people and I think that's a big factor in penguin forwarders as a growing child as a growing adolescent him so yeah I think race day play a big factor.

Howard: But what percent of the orthodontists do you think in sydney would love to help a young kid learn how to do Invisalign thinking in abundance and what percent do you think would say no that's what i do Invisalign send them to me what do you think the breakdown would be.

Lawrence: Yes that's a tough space um it's a it's a really good question however to him and you put me on the spot yeah and I think it's about 50Howard: 50 to bonus there's dentists industry I think are still quite conservative from what they do compared to the rest of the world which I don't think is always is not a bad thing and I think the orthodontic community in Australia is definitely changing but they still have a lot conferences and a lot of Education which is orthodontist only and they do not marry anyone else and to that education aim and I think the ones are forward-thinking other ones are the practices are growing because they're getting more referrals because I helped him dentists rather than handling them and I helping the profession rather than entering the profession.

Howard: I only got kicked out of one one seminar for getting busted yeah the specialty convention it was endodontics and and he found out halfway through someone ratted me out or so or called me or whatever but he found out but whenever they would come and it was like especially only you just sign upon I mean Dennis are all introvert shy they're all scientific engineer type people mathematicians and all you do is you just go there and don't make eye contact and sit in the back by the wall and I i've done that so many times I got busted once and I was sitting there with my cute old that was the problem you don't ever go to an incognito seminar with Mike the Tola we were back there laughing and cutting jokes whatever but uh but yeah I I think it's um it's uh it's bizarre how the endodontists all want to help you learn the endo the oral surgeons I want to teach you extractions but some specialists don't want it want to teach you that um that myobrace and palatable expansion is that can is that controversial in conservative City because United States is like Sydney in the fact that you know there's no such thing as United States America ever every time I'm traveling abroad and I meet a dad says oh I went to America I always wonder like okay well how what what are you do and they always went to the Greater New York meeting in Manhattan and never left man they flew into laguardia JFK and I thought my god if you think New York City is United States of America you haven't even see yeah that's like and I think it's it when I think of Australia half the population lives in Melbourne which I think it was a conservative the other half since Sydney more progressive and then the other half lives out in the rural and the rural half of Australia is extremely conservative and so something like palpable expansion brace all the things that is that accepted or is it considered controversial.

Lawrence: I think they say I think it's a little bit like Invisalign most at the start that patients are becoming more and more aware of it and it's almost been driven by patients there are say muscle we failed about these treatments we want you to tell us about these treatments and we want your opinion on it I think my race there is is quite controversial and I think part of expansion is becoming more and more of the norm and lower days in most cases but yeah there's no best a little bit of our skepticism over myobrace as they'll have ever skepticism over the teaching and I'm a member of our Facebook groups and endlessly he'll make arguments corn and Facebook when people are behind the keyboard typing em towards each other and some of them I don't know if they would say face-to-face personally to over the Internet and I think that there's a place where I really do I don't think this for everyone I don't think it's across the board blank you can do it in every case it's case by case I think there's at least where i've got certainly myobrace when I first met my tools into my race I was a skeptic I thought this is all the rubbish I can a piece of plastic you can stick in someone's mouth there's no shape to really can work but the concept works when you get the breathing right when you get the time in the right position when you work the muscles and and you use the device properly it works but again the hard thing about my race is compliance you've got to be taking your patients regularly you've got to be on top of them we've got some good parents i've been to look after the tantrum there too you know and I think it's I think it's a great device and used in the corporate matter.

Howard: Um for all the kids listening in this and have no idea what my Oh braces and by the way it's myobrace my obra seee and if you go to dental town oh my god the threads on this or crazy they're just do a search for myobrace every thread that comes up is a huge debate so explain what it what it is and what you think about it what is it.

Lawrence: Yes I said two-part system and you have a couple of small devices which you put in a patient's mouth much like our plastic mouth guards aim they're not custom-made there there's three different sizes of them and you work through the three different sizes of my race but Longsight getting the patient to wait at nighttime on a couple hours during the day so you're looking for about 12 hours per day where I am you also get them to do some my functional exercises and which involve tongue possession which involves stretching the lips which involve breathing through the nose and you basically want to improve down with the kids normally I I work for the program for about 12 months and the age is around about 8 to 10 M I find any errors very hard to have compliance for the kid and I find Daniel 8 so you've kind of missed the boat a little bit so around about eight to ten and it just helps to create a lot of space and the mouth it helps to position the tea-things so the correct positions.

Howard: And what is really the difference between my o face calm and Chris Farrell down in Australia with a mile research calm is that are those guys connected.

Lawrence: I think we're connected but that may be safe graces or splat part i've said I don't know that i'll have it's a nurse.

Howard: Okay but yeah i've had a board-certified orthodontist come on this show and just not like anything about it and but it is definitely taken off so so after this so go ahead.

Lawrence: I'm just going to say yeah all the great thing about it for me how it is they say it's the perfect treatment to do no harm because if you try and it doesn't work you've not done any harm and you'd you know you put an end it's just exercises it's just a mouth guard you literally it's the safest way it's almost at your toes and orthodontics because you can actually do no harm if you turn it as an area intervention eight to ten your fallback if it doesn't work or if they're not combined is that is taking about two expander and you put on some basis and and I think is a chance a way to introduce kids and tourists antics and I think it's a thing that you can really as a dentist most of the stuff we do if we get it wrong we cause harm because I actually any damage where with my erase you you really don't and there's no time sector really.

Howard: So the CEO of that row and YJ why is he.

Lawrence: Yeah so ruins one of the this because and I'm and he's quite prominent with my race and again he's he's very passionate about it so he'll have some long debates I'm sure he's probably been on dental time another other forums have been having massive debates.

Howard: So after so these kids come around at school with all the student loan debt after your recommending they get into ortho there's a big demand for that it's a it's a great service what would be next would it be what would be the next you think highest return on investment to get to know more of.

Lawrence: Yeah I mean I think claim first and foremost first maybe three to five years out treatment planning you've just got to be good at treatment planning if you can trigger plan whale and then you always be safe and then Suri you always be really well so again great mentors to help you treat them fine and and then the other investment I would make which I did as soon as ago attempt to skill was doing non clinical so don't even think about a treatment just think about communication and I was lucky to have a cup of good day I gained a couple of good speakers I seen the early in my career Ashley loitering trespassing on my test clearly and speak for me and and they all talk about patient experience in communication if you can't communicate if you can't sale achievements are patient if you can't explain why your patient needs the treatment or you can't evoke more patient ones and then you'll never use any of the the clinical skills that you've learned so my next investment as a new grad or young dancers would be communication okay really good honor.

Howard: You know um i've had so many dental consultants we all we all say this we all laugh but I think everybody thanks for joking that is some guy opens up a new practice and say he goes in there works Monday through Thursday 8: 00 to 5: 00 the typical dentist you know maybe half day Friday and they say well course I learn we always say well you know you see you should get a job Friday night is either a waiter or a bartender and and make me if you're if you're really really bad maybe you should be a bartender because maybe you can start with talking to drunk people and but just any anything because you you know you could go learn the Toastmasters club you could I mean there's all the Arts Center's have all these different what do they call that when you are in improv so they'll get four or five you I had so much fun and improv class it'll be like four or five people and they just tell you the world and then you got to go comedy school I'm anything anything to learn how to look so in the eye because you know deep down inside they don't want to be the one in five Americans have no teeth at seventy-four you know they're embarrassed of their smile you know they're in pain you know you know that they're gonna spend all their money on cars houses and trips and vacations and if you really think about it I mean a good dentist would really want you to get those four cavities fixed and they just so you know they just got to learn how to talk to people were you a natural at talking to people or did you have urges a journey for you.

Lawrence: Hey you know I think it's funny because I think if you speak to most dentists and you see come on this communication of course or i've got great communication course for you where you can learn how to talk to people how to get people to talk about their emotions how to have patients asking you about the treatment rather than you sailing the treatment to them and most dentists would probably say that above average and I would be in that case where at the start I was I thought I was above average you know I could talk in an AO I could talk on this force field I could give talks to my teammates and I thought I'd talk to very well with my staff members and so we go and some of these communication courses you realize how is your heart talking to patients aim and hope you are talking to their patients about certain treatments because we're just all taught in dental school to use them to jargon we don't use normal everyday language and the patients need to learn and I think over our four or five years of watching speakers come out to Australia where communication courses for my company then two events Osteria I actually realize how bad things are sorry and talking to patients and it's funny to see them on the course after you're about four or five hours into the course all the things there may be skeptical that they even have come in the course and start to laugh about four or five hours in because they realize have been doing this really really purely for the last five 10 years of my career and most of them tynesha coursing I wish it on this course five years ago so the ones are new grads are coming on the course the first thing is a service congratu before we even started doors.

Howard: So no no you um you actually have courses you you have the dental events Australia are you talking about your website is dental events Australia comte you are you doing about the course yeah here putting on.

Lawrence: Yessir dental events history calm so here you came up I um when I first arrived and said me we got a good group of young dentist together to do a study club and from that they sort of demanded that we have more and more education and basically I was looking around Australia and in that point in time about seven years ago there were certain speakers around the world that I knew just we are not coming to Australia I'm so from that they kind of spiral by accident aim through the demand of the study club I decided right I'm gonna bring my first speaker to Syria and I'm gonna see if I can make it work look who the first speaker was Ashley Votto who I knew really really real from the UK create communication coach and really start to finish up a consultation I don't think there's anyone that does it better than having teach intensive so to do it and can we promote that would be five years ago know em and it was really successful it took off we had over fifty dentists went through the course in the first year and every year since we've been bringing on back with no rest day to attend two events Australia where we bring out about ten speakers a year and we run ten courses from February right through to November and I never have a better break through December and January which is summer over here.

Howard: Wow so now so is that your company um so dental events Australia au is your company is it is that been a journeys have been hard on some of the meetings in the United States are competitive and you know you used to be low hanging fruit to have a big meeting twenty thirty years ago but now it's a more competitive how has your dental events Australia been doing.

Lawrence: Yeah I think it is very very competitive Fame and we're lucky enough over the last five years every time we've run an event we've managed to have enough numbers to to run nervin and I'm very conscious that I'm a dentist and i've been to a lot of continuing education and it's not even so much the money you pay for base giving your time up and giving the time out of connects the holes again what to do after a really good experience for the dancers to come on the courses and I want them to get value of the courses I want them to get something they can really go back into practice on the Monday and implement quite easily and so over the last five years we've been very lucky that we've managed to run the seminar successfully I think it is getting harder and harder and there's a lot more continuing education on mine there's a lot more young dentists and want to do their education online in the road type whenever they want to do it and I was very much a hands-on seminar services very much face to face seminar same not got anything really online aim that might be the next stage I think I'm a bit more traditional even though I'm young I like to go to face the region education I like to interact with my peers name so that's kind of our philosophy with it with the education just take the base speakers from around the world and do two to three days seminars face to face where they can get really good hands-on practice roleplay whatever it may be.

Howard: So so your courses are usually two to three days so what what is that a three-day Friday Saturday or Friday sunny Sun.

Lawrence: Usually usually afraid you sad to see Sunday.

Howard: Wow that's a big commitment of time to leave work yeah Thursday and commit to the whole Friday Saturday Sunday are they always done and in Sydney.

Lawrence: Yeah we've moved a little bit most of them are done in Sydney and we run a good for your courses in Melbourne some and Brisbane put on one course over impaired name which seems to be a little bit harder and mcgann more out the way more remotely scientist so the main attraction seems to be that dancers quite like to come to Sydney or Melbourne for the weekend and so our makeup every weekend do it do some education MC the city.

Howard: So what so when you're throwing a successful meeting what do you think the most successful topics are is that what what do you use that you talk about have a plan communication what would you think the hottest topics are.

Lawrence: I'm certainly the one that we say about every single year is Ashley water with the face patient communication so ethical sales and communication Sam's ceremony seems to be a hot topic he's got quite a good reputation there in Australia but I'd create feedback over the years good and we're starting to increase by register a little bit more and he's on overall sort of practice growth and development and so I gained more on the financial say the things were on the patient experience other things and some running your kpis and your numbers as well marketing and advertising and buy them for some great hands-on courses with with is Academy on orthodontics and we've got periods on to specialist coming over at the end of the year to teach some grafting technique same across the board but yeah I think the the hot topics are on the stuff that you're not learning in dental school.

Howard: So it sounds like when you say treatment plan communication ashley ladder ethical cells the communication Chris borough so you're saying the hottest would be practice management second you said was ortho so I'm trying I'm trying to manage us so the kids can think about supply and demand of them is you know of a skill they're learning does it apply so practice management was number one you got student loans you got to pay a back then you mentioned ortho and Invisalign is just huge and then after that you mentioned periodontist which now we've entered the implants own and so how so what's what's more what woody Dennison said he want to learn more about do you think if you ask him ortho or implants what do you think they think is the better thing to learn.

Lawrence: I think in Australia the moment is this ortho which is the biggest of it.

Howard: Because don't blood-and-guts it's it's it's you know Invisalign bleaching bonding veneers to me Invisalign bleaching bonding those spa treatments Botox all that stuff it's more of a person that's not more the blood and guts it seems like you're it's like even in a little I mean some guys like me have to file it all the way out and get a sealer to ball out the apex because we're apical barbarians and then the next verse intimidate Cheyenne wants to stop a half millimeter from the apex and get a working stop I just think that that you could divide up Venice and a half half love blood and guts they love root canals implants surgery Szabo I mean he'll if I broke on the file if I couldn't get out I mean III do surgery I do knit colectomy and push it out the other end so I guess a lot of it depends on your preference do you like blood and guts go to implants go to root canals do bone graft things if you're not really into blood and guts and you like pretty sweet soft stuff Invisalign bleaching bonding veneers is that how you see it or and you see it differently.

Lawrence: You did not do I do agree with that I think that people go down in dome serán paths and family wants to do more through a line bleach bone Dame certainly do lace of the other stuff and I think that there also a line bleach on displaced patient revenues patient demand it as well I think it's difficult and to have a patient come in and ask for an end but they don't do it until it's a little bit too late and we're I think visions commence the practices certainly said me and demanding cosmetics and.

Howard: So after practice management after orthodontics we're into implants now what do you are you you talked about the importance I agree that it should be taught by someone who's not selling something well like when sleep medicine got taken off the ice or started to take off it I say it's you couldn't go to any of the courses because you could tell the only thing they cared about is that you were gonna buy some $5,000 machine and all I was just it was a machine sells course and and but unfortunately most of the implant training is sponsored by the implant manufacturers so how do you you said specifically learn from people that aren't selling you a bunch of product so how do you learn implants if 80% of all the courses are put on by the implant fracture.

Lawrence: Yeah it's that you hope you know I'm and I think that's the hard part and that's what drove me to start my own education company because i've been one to go to seminars or just say on your serums Allah Taurus an item and not teaching you the right fundamentals in the right philosophies and most of our education programs don't have any sponsorship to and only only occasionally to take sponsorship to but we make sure that the sponsors get good experience but they're not passionate Allah John Hanuman and our speakers aren't pushing a product on any one aim and that's what I loved about the is Academy and no completely open source I'm not selling a product so with regards to implants I think I was lucky enough to be recommended and to do the guides Academy which is certainly it's associated with noble bio care and but this a little push novel by appear on you and they are mostly in the background and again it's just great teachers it's great dentists a Miss pretty specialist who who want to teach dangerous the right philosophy and what's teach dentists to be safe and performed fantastic treatments.

Howard: So you um you flew all the way to Los Angeles for the guide Institute um I have flown that too that that's a long flight do you disagree.

Lawrence: I agree I agree.

Howard: Oh my gosh so what's your strategy on a 16-hour flight from Sydney Australia to Los Angeles what are you trying to yeah.

Lawrence: Well i'm scottie so i do like to have a drink a couple of glasses of a cover the glasses a red wait before the fight and then I'm actually I'm not bad I guess my only don't say my never stop our a my probably much like yourself in the fact that I'm always on the go and I struggled to sit still or struggle to just relax and kick back on a flight the best thing boss no phone no technology you just the air with a movie and I read write aim and you can just relax enjoy yourself catch up on sleep the worst thing that's happened to me in the recent years I still good Wi-Fi on to all the fights now.

Howard: And you do buy the Wi-Fi.

Lawrence: I do sometimes.

Howard: Yes I won't but yeah I wonder so I started lecturing in ninety and I thought you know you can meet rich and you know when someone says are you rich it's like rich in what I mean the only true wealth is health and I would I was talking to a patient I was really sad because he was getting ready to leave to go to jail for like three years and I said well you're in jail you'll be so rich in time you won't be distracted by anything and so when I got my when I started flying back to Australia I thought oh my god it's a 16-hour flight I had four kids out of practice all it's on yet I said with what textbook would you never ever ever have the time to read I mean is that pathway since of Hall by Stephen Kona's admissions book the the first time I went there I read secrets of the temple an 800-page book on how the Federal Reserve works that when that everybody told me well I mean an 800-page book on Federal Reserve policy I mean it you'd ever you you'd never read it I started reading it on take off and I finished it before he landed and it was like the biggest mind trip I'd ever been on so that's what I always do I always try to think okay I'm gonna be on this airplane I'm rich and I know some people are like oh when's my doctor got a sleeping pill or they're gonna sit there and get trashed in the past house like dude you got 17 hours of uninterrupted time and then I'm not a movie watcher so sometimes i'll watch a movie or whatever but uh that is amazing so on that on that now you call that the it's the guide Institute small G capital IDE what is a small G stand for.

Lawrence: That's what I think Hey.

Howard: Is this still I'm dr. Shashka Janovich.

Lawrence: Yeah so Sasha jovanovich and decon youth from Europe a couple other lectures yeah so we the n in Australia OB dr. Chris who is every one of the prominent lecturers dr. David done em they've got great faculty the country in fact they're all mine Porter's is fantastic as well for watching videos and seen procedures and learn about implants.

Howard: I have a friend in Maricopa Arizona right up the street of me about 20 miles and what he did he was a young kid and out of school he would just come home every night and get on youtube and just put in dental implant surgery and he just watched an hour of who knows whose youtube video put up and he saw a lot of Dentistry uncensored pots of a lot a lot of courses popped up and he basically became an implant ologists by just watching youtube an hour overnight but you flew 17 hours to the guide Institute and there's a 25,000 ennis in California that lived there and never been to it talk more about it why did you like the guy Institute and I mean guy if you're gonna fly 17 hours talk to that guy he lives in LA has never even been to it.

Lawrence: Yeah yeah and I suppose the faculty there names that they had on the faculty were sort of the rock stars of implantology over cold aim so that's something that always a people to me and it builds new while these guys so well know and why these guys done the cases these are the guys that really pushed the boo out early on in dental implants I think sort of when you're looking at 20 30 years ago and the guys that were still pushing the ball today with really am pushing through new techniques being able to try out new things and also being safe for the patient and getting good results and I thought that their online education is fantastic and I love traveling and flying around the world I think Airways a fantastic city is a lot of fun a my day in the vert we went to Vegas afterwards which is also a lot of fun and they do the host agree confidence and a nice hotel and they have tennis tournaments learned about it they have good tennis om and you get to converse with some great dancers from all around the worlds as well so I think a lot more than just their education goes like what if they can do and again I encourage any young dentist if you can afford that travel or round over Alton and see it out of the world we're learning about the industry and one of the most boring things to do I think is to stay in your country and to continuing education something if you can afford it once a year make a new country and go and learn some dentistry in that country.

Lawrence: And I love about it is when you go to another country you're known as the Holiday Inn and going on whatever you know they they cater to the the deals a dentist fit chef in fact whenever I got a lecture in other countries they're always like we're gonna pay this hotel and go isn't there like one dentists that let me sleep in their house and they go well sure but you should why you under that is I remember the first time I lectured in Poland I stayed at marching to Lucky's house and I got up in the morning and of course I love to eat and I which is for Jerome forger miles was stunned because I never even thought ahead of time what would a polish refrigerator look like it didn't look like anything I'd ever seen the United States the other different foods and I just I love them that the culture and then the dentist they all got the same people they all got the same problems they all got the same technology but they all looked at it slightly different like like I mean like I was talking about in the beginning show that hypnosis or you know that guy looked at Americans said they don't even treat anxiety they just knock him out and you wake up you still got it we actually treat it so that some day you don't have it and I just I just love the way everybody's doing everything slightly different so back back to your practice has spa dental Sydney Spa dental Sydney CBD.

Lawrence: Yeah.

Howard: And what's the cbds.

Lawrence: You have the same two business districts so Anna story the coldest at the center the central business district this CEO the center business district okay rayon is financial hub.

Howard: And and in your practice um how was that going.

Lawrence: Yes good so we start the practice 18 months ago a mess myself and my business partner who's also a dentist they've Sean parsonage a man over it was obviously a big leap and scary to start to ever scare to pull right into the probably the place with the most dentists in the whole hysteria right in the heart of Sydney my as where we wanted to be and and it's been a really good experience same it's been great fun I love the business side of her I love the patients that we have a madam of guide great team i've been lucky enough to manage their voice and fantastic employees and fantastic dentists - just been growing month-on-month they were effect was had grew with every single month since we started so it's been amazing.

Howard: So you said the guidance who was sponsored or that I'm a sponsor by did you say bio horizon a no-go by Oh noble Bob care so I'm just here so when you got done with the guided conference Institute did you end up going with the noble wild care system is that the one you guys used today no attempt actually aim far enough so I have I say mixed between Stroman and by horizon but mainly we placed Roman and the reason for Stroman is probably because Stroman are very strong in the UK because they have the iti and which is their sort of training institute aim I need to quite well actually they're quite independent in the way that they sponsor it but they may have connections run with with education and in topics that they want to run much so most of the time we placed over there bunts and-run practice.

Howard: Because you said straumann has the training with the straumann ITI institute yeah.

Lawrence: The ITI is the - so they're quite big in the UK they're quite big in history I'm not sure if they're in North America they've got the iti Israel.

Howard: Ah so straumann so the international team for implantology straumann the trainee education so it's ITI org and so you do mostly learn implants on iti org as the online or D are you flying to seminars.

Lawrence: Yes we have they have on mind they have seminars and they have a quite strong study clubs you hinge to the study called in Sydney I'm not sure if they want to be over as well.

Howard: So right now you're mostly placing straumann.

Lawrence: Yes mostly.

Howard: All right um so then I'm so then continue so um you also talk about Invisalign assessment in your on the faculty there are you talking about digital smile design do you think the digital smile design is a big part of your success and implants and Invisalign.

Lawrence: You yeah I think the that we have the IT rule scanner with our with Invisalign because we do so much in the zone we we love having both I love digital technology and being able to plan everything on your computer I'm when you're in surgery over you know in surgery I think it's a fantastic to aim and to be able to see the end result before you start I think it's a fantastic - and so all of our patients they're into the practice whether they're coming in for cosmetic treatment or not get scanned and then we can really show them on the scanner what we can do aim at a game attention to smile design we can show them what we can do before we start and then and it really motivates patients so that really gets makes a it's.

Howard: So um a lot of people think that the I Tarot is an oral scanner on by align technology which owns Invisalign to do ortho but are you using the eye tarot scanner or non ortho like crown and bridge and lance and and all the others.

Lawrence: Yeah so we basically we we have only for emergencies of the scanner versus broken or a stone which never happens and we have some impression to you in the practice but we're basically an impression free practice we we hardly ever take an impression or practice everything is scanned with I to you am from implants the current bridge and two before ortho treatments even for records and we do no charting or charts and stuff with the scanner and so as they say create two with some reason two to three we take it with embezzling scanner with the eye Tyrael.

Howard: Do you agree of that perception in Sydney where most dentists when they're looking at world scanner put I Tarot and do Invisalign and then they start thinking about bio late or you know all the other ones with kana bridge do you think that's a misconception or do not really see that.

Lawrence: Yeah no I think I think that they do probably a.m. They do pose we do that aim and I think that a lot of people call for other scanners because they believe ITU is an Invisalign normally scanner and it's maybe noise could the restorative sailor things in a few months I'm actually gonna be speaking for Invisalign on their IT or scanner and the thing that they've asked me to speak on as a restorative side of it uses so much of a restorative treatment aim and I think this that's what I like technology is a group active struggle to to get that message out to the interstates just as good and for restorative is if the other scanners have not baseman.

Howard: Yeah it's gonna be a tough ride for them because they started in ortho and of course so they focus on the orthodontist because they do you know so much the ortho and it got really branded as a oral scanner for Invisalign owned by line technology that owns them and and it's actually a great scanner for everything else what I like most about the scanning is I how how old are you you're a.

Lawrence: I'm 32 okay.

Howard: My son is 31 so I'm old enough to be your dad what I like about scanning is that when I when you're 56 and you see your prep forty times larger on the screen the first time I see it I think my license should be taken away and they should put me in jail and all about but the the fastest way to quality is magnification and if you see your prep forty times larger you know the ended odds are all using microscopes at 8 X larger anybody your age you might even want just two-and-a-half loops but when you're in your 50s you'll want 3.8 you know so magnifique it older you need more light and more magnification and eventually you'll end up as isolate cuz only a nice light can retract everything flood it with light and then you got your magnification but just but you know when I talk to anybody who owns a crown and bridge lab they say when the impressions come in on a scan that 1% remake and when it comes in impression material it's a fight percent remake and the quality is off the church gives a lot of times done a second impression and that they can't even hardly see it but man when you take a scan I never accept your first scan you always take a scan and there oh my god give me a give me a sandpaper disc and around Burt you know I mean you're you're in there trying to clean up so I think this scan I mean when you get done preparing a molar for a crown and you scant what presentin time after you look at it in the scan thing oh I got to go back and patch up something.

Lawrence: Yeah I think I think I totally agree with you I think maybe as soon as your scans on the screen you know they're definitely you're thinking god I could have done that better or there's a little bit there's a little bit there and and you're always gonna do a touch-up I think seventy five eighty percent of its ain't even touch stuff up and and try and improve on it and which is really good and and again when we're talking about investments for young dentists and courses and continuing education the basement basement is a as a camera and and I could say loops so you can see you're working and you can criticize your work.

Howard: When you say a camera what do you mean you mean for what what kind of camera.

Lawrence: Mean an intraoral camera or a digital camera I think I think it's that you do come on I think it gets a say are attached to the camera and if you can integrate into your workflow where you're taking photos you're scanning and your crosshair loops then you will do really high quality of interesting well.

Howard: I can't believe how many times you'll listen to people give an entire all-day seminar on marketing and they don't even mention a camera I mean when you start building a culture which starts from the head down of getting a camera taking pictures of your work and then putting it on your website as your work I mean it's just amazing how powerful it is i I know several dentists that always take before and afters on their implant géza member that the page that doesn't want to see blood and sutures and Nullah they wouldn't they want to see unhappy sloppy before picture and then as she's all happy smiley afterwards and people are jumping in Southwest airline planes in flying two hours because they want him to play cm plasters work because they've been going to their doctor and Fort Scott Kansas for years and he's a really nice guy and they sit by him in church but they've seen no evidence that that would be the guy to do this big expensive complicated case so they drive up to Kansas City because they were googling dental implants and and and so the guy that dentist that gets a digital camera which by the way when I get out of school the only millionaires can afford him and now there are ten times better for you know a tenth the cost you start getting cameras and you start taking really cool before-and-afters and with anything on a team if it's not your cup of tea that's why you have a team someone's a quarterback someone's a wide receiver someone's a blocker and by the way I don't know if you guys know this when you're listening this but did you guys know that you know the whole world thinks football is soccer and in America we think football is the NFL did you guys know Australia has their own type of football it's like it's more like NFL football than soccer but which is bigger that Australian football or the Australian soccer.

Lawrence: Hey Estuary to go yeah.

Howard: And it's totally doing I mean I mean I am addicted to the NFL I mean that the Arizona Cardinals I am I'm the worst fan you could ever have I mean I just I don't there was a funeral during the game I'd skipped the funeral but um but it's a really really different game I mean the first time I saw the game I didn't even get it yeah ha did you like it.

Lawrence: I I have to see so I'm a massive soccer fan I even call it soccer feels a bit strange to me coming from the cakes we just call it football web and also football or soccer in Europe is is huge and i've looked trying to get to some of this too in sports I'm not quite there yet they have a sport called Aussie Rules em and it's it's that's their airfield and it's more like a mix between sort of NFL and soccer and it's very good as a very scrappy game but as Prager came to watch and obviously the mass of the track here the massive with their little type of football as well so and there is a big sports nation though they're very outdoors are very fair law of athletes okay good at it.

Howard: Well Australia Australia and like I say i've lectured in 50 countries and my boys I say dad you've been saying that for 10 years it's got to be more than that I mean last week is in Barbados and but bottom line is um Australia is hands-down the greatest society and Sydney I mean it scans down the greatest civilization honored I don't know who in the world could think they're better than Sydney I mean it's just I'm so jealous of my brother but when you're when you're you're talking about a camera lubes and all that on digital smile design talk about that more and is that something you're doing with the eye tarot scanner or your digital camera explain to explain to what you mean by digital smile design.

Lawrence: Yeah so I suppose this is using both in combination so anyone that comes into our practice they go through a series of photos or sales photos of the start before the consultation and then usually we have one of our assistants or a hygienist or therapist i'll scan the patient name with that IP or scanner and to give sort of the food records and they'll have older x-rays taken and name will come and we'll consult with them so I can use in the photos using the scanner and we can quickly design stuff statutory in front of the patient and again if we run over time we can get the patient back designs of new smiles for the patients and it just really excites some really motivates them so something that they were doing more and more and it's taken me really from em sort of single unit dentistry and to doing multiple unit dentistry and much more enjoyable stuff much more exciting stuff and a multidisciplinary dentistry as well we're doing or through cases that are then finished with either comes a bonding or veneers or whatever it may be.

Howard: So um what is um what software are you doing your digital small design on.

Lawrence: So very them a fairly from powerpoint and software right through to using the the DSD up in the DSD online and website as well I am I feel from using technicians am doing the the designs for mates and myself doing the designs and so sort of been added I have a few different a methods of Turner at the moment we're using more and more there TSD online and stuff for us for the designs.

Howard: And that's our buddy from Brazil.

Lawrence: Yeah Chris new kosher.

Howard: So so talk more about that why you tried a bunch of different um you tried a different a bunch of different digital small designs why did you and with digital smile design calm the Chrisman coachmen yes there isn't about that.

Lawrence: I think the ease of use i think the way they present the plans in in 2d and 3d and is easy to excite the patient i'm it takes the work out of our clinic where before that mistake not quite a lot of time and i mean we can still always edit the designs that come back israel for not happy with them or we want to change them or or anything on that as well and so would it so what is the.

Howard: What is the advantage because this boy some guy listening right now he's been doing dentistry for twenty years and and he thinks it's all cool what ways why should he switch to digital smile design with benjamin.

Lawrence: So first and foremost again it comes back down to patient motivation and the patient comes to your practice because they want a beautiful smile and but they don't know what the ink over is really in their head apart from that they want a beautiful smile with maybe a celebrity acid making point i go to you and my men you don't know the journey in between israel and and introduce my old design helps you to show the patient they go it helps you to show them the steps along the journey that they need to go through and also it helps you with planning so it means you can plan every step of the way so and the whole term of planet two or three times before you cotta and assembly part that you do smile designs so again procession mmm as part of the process as well.

Howard: So on your dental events australia when you go to that website i'm dental events um what you I see name email message send where's the let's chat where's the the upcoming courses.

Lawrence: And so they should be on there okay.

Howard: I'm on now I love that picture you have in the Sydney Harbour at the bridge you got a climate it's a fun climb man with.

Lawrence: A service broom down you see some the some courses on there our next course coming up is at the end of this month and this actually called a sort of a runs through after talking about the cameras that's called when the pictures really matter so there's a couple of a great guys from South America the ocean from Venezuela and they've been massive in North America and teaching people how to take really really cool dental photographs and how to market themselves on Facebook and Instagram essentially and how to build new clients and referrals.

Lawrence: So that is that periodontal plastic surgery dr. Oliver Karkov know that same that's coming up towards the end of the year so that's it okay embarked.

Howard: Oh I see it was my pictures really matter that's a little title when the picture really matter and Soto tell us when when do the pictures really matter.

Lawrence: Yes who these guys are coming out 24th 25th of me and said me and they're coming out to Melbourne on the 26th and 27th of me and and and photo as though these are so important so really create before and afters really creative photographs aim these guys are from Venice really comes from one of the hardest em economic situations and countries in the world and they've managed to get themselves to Madrid and to Miami M - fantastic cities are really hard to be dentists in and through photographs they've driven massive demand from dental companies to sponsor love travel massive demand from patients to see them and I realized that they had a niche in the market because not many dentists were doing it and know that they're teaching dentists around the world how to take photographs how to enter them how to do video editing em how to create really cool marketing and advertising within your own practice at a budget cost because you're doing all yourself.

Howard: So this is um more so you're saying when the pictures really matter is for marketing to attract more new patients.

Lawrence: Yeah yeah definitely so they're teaching great photographs from from my records point of view and to show patience and Clinic but then the ops I devised that when your patients are finished in the very cunning they're using these photographs on Instagram and they're huge on Instagram master.

Howard: So will it be a one day is it a one day course or that one of those Wednesday Friday sound sending courses.

Lawrence: Yes this one's this one's a two day course and so d1 is really taking the photos the philosophy why the photos are important am how to take the right photographs em and then t2 is more editing of the photographs how to create videos Aria photographs and and how to motivate patients as well.

Howard: Okay so um so we've we've talked about a practice manager in orthodontics implants the small design what other courses you have coming up that you think they're hot and why.

Lawrence: Em so the other one that you mentioned there was the periodontal plastic surgery and I think that gain that's quite a hot topic at the moment and we're seeing more and more patients keeping the teeth for longer so recessions becoming a bigger problem at mega rescue along with tooth wear and we're also now seeing the aorta to 40 years on infants are starting to feel and a lot of them are feeling because there's not good and gum tissue around about them so I think it's becoming more and more important and to be able to offer the patients a solution em tonight and they came to a 15 really good implant surgery to be able to add in the soft tissue.

Howard: Yeah they're saying in in five to seven years 20 to 40 percent of implants or alien failing and that's another thing I want to talk about because a lot of people get into implants because they think well I'm gonna get a surgical guide and I'm worried enough to lay a flap and I'm just gonna push this through a little hole that's like dude yeah that's if everything goes right but the minute it goes south 20 to 40 percent of the time in 5 to 9 years you need to be a surgeon and it really just scares me when these people they would have become an implant ologists without being a surgeon.

Lawrence: Yeah I agree and I think because of again I think it all comes back down to children planning however them I think you've got to really keep reminding before you start any of these more complex aim ears of the industry and and that's where it comes down to if you're a bunch of got to treatment on them really well but then you got to be able to back up the treatment planning and by having really good surgical skills and part of the surgical skills for implant placement it's definitely that you've got to be able to be good with soft tissue other is from just basic suturing I'm all the way up to be able to do a soft tissue graft.

Howard: Well the UM when you when you talk about about seminars and you talk about you know you want the seminar not to be trying to sell you something the big money the huge money is not is trying to bike to get you by a hundred thousand dollar machine they're they're having this course to get you by a CAD cam or a laser or something like that we're talking about para donald aziz that there are lasers that cost a hundred and thirty thousand dollars to treat periodontal disease what do you what do you think of the big technology purchase purchase and the reason I asked is because no one cares about a $20 or $50 trying of some bonding agent but men committing to a hundred thousand dollars that that's a big deal what big and then you're in the space of a dental event so you know you get tempted all the time where they want you to have a course trying to sell a big machine so so what do you think all these high price uh these technologies is worth the money or not worth the money.

Lawrence: Yeah I think I think there it is in danger shape your if you're a dental practice or are or even an associate you can be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on education you can send hundreds of thousands of dollars on new equipment for your practice and you've really got to do the numbers on your return on investment and before we bought the scanner for the practice with that the numbers on how much does impression materials cost us how many remakes that we have to do how many times do we have to redo an impression and how many times disinflation material I would be if you're not using enough compared to how many scans are we going to aim and and the numbers work where with some of these bigger technologies and beggary of basements and don't think the numbers add up and when I look at people that do say 'ok i think god you got goo to it on law crown and bridge work to make see a good return on investment.

Howard: Yeah but but we have proof with Soraka the fact that I mean it's been out for decades it only has maybe a 10 or 12 percent market penetration in America so 90% of dentists that I can live without that machine you're saying oral scanners are a buy I agree totally with that what what about these $100,000 lasers to treat gum disease.

Lawrence: Yeah oh I just don't I think with how fast technology is moving and $100,000 for one of these lasers I just don't think for me I can't see a return on investment in it and that's my honest opinion but that's probably an opinion that I'm not I'm not an expert in the area and I'm sure there's as many other people hope a better position to meet together opinion on it and but for me that's a massive investment.

Howard: Well I mean the smart people I mean the really really smart people try to do everything faster easier higher quality lower in cost and make it more smaller and succinctly and a lot of times these dentists and their team members on a business I always have this idea and it's like AK him every time you have an idea I have to go spend a ton of money how come you never have an idea of where I can save money and it's the same thing with your vendors and dealers like man if every time you have a good idea I give you my money let's just stop this relationship right now and i'll try to you know find out I may be that is just um it's just so obvious.

Lawrence: Yeah yeah I agree.

Howard: So so run through the technology again do you have a CBC tu place implants.

Lawrence: Yeah we don't actually am and I suppose that was again it's another investment when we were starting the practice that we just thought they were a little bit placed a little bit high for the amount of implants we were doing in the practice to start than the first sort of year or 18 months before we projected and we went way above what we projected for demuth indesign and but with empires would probably just been on devote where our projections were so for us the return on investment in the CV CT to begin with in the practice wasn't quite there were no 18 months and and it's time to become something that could be a good return on investment the nice thing about said Liam being right in the heart of the city is that basically two streets though we have our a radiology Center that we can see in patients to and get the scans back on the same day to be able to talk to them about so we see that as an advantage certainly if I was in rural and I was placing implants m.a.c BCT might be more attractive or or maybe worth invest in the technology I'm again I think it's the future I think in the next 10 years every new dental practice or have a CV CT yeah and I'm trying to notice that they're also coming down and placed by a law even in the last 18 months since we're since we opened this come down quite significantly embrace as well.

Howard: Yeah and the other thing is you know the person I can teach you how to place implants the lowest cost is the periodontist oral surgeon across the street they've already got this machine and so many of them are shy and humble and don't know how to talk and when you go over there and tell them you want to be their friend and you want to learn and have a mutually rewarding relationship rest of life they're all excited and then and then the shy guy says well I'm not gonna do that I'm just gonna go out and and it's a hundred thousand RCB CT and the next thing you talk to you it's a hundred cells are CAD cam then it's $100,000 to land labor and it's it's always something it's always something and it's it's um you know limited resources facing unlimited demands is what built the 80 trillion dollar USD canaro in global economy today not you know that's the only way you could do it so um so what about um so you like world scanners you passed on but you do what did I can't him did you have a CAD Kim did you buy one.

Lawrence: We yeah we don't because the rule scanner a miracie at the mall we're currently looking and some sort of in-house billing system and we're also can a 3d printer at the moment as well I'm I'm quite interested to try and get in to make sonal a nose I'm saying interested in doing some of our own million and the practices well I think a practice for Sophie as the five years time we have our own many dental lab as well did you think.

Howard: You're gonna start lecturing for itare on out.

Lawrence: Yeah so hopefully before the end of the year we're gonna do some webinars for ITU I came to talk about their sort of restorative side of things and hopefully educate this during that to sort of basically aim scanners berg for a source of israel.

Howard: So um you are in sydney and now Invisalign has moved into sydney opening up their own stores right in your city have you seen those stores and what do they what what is uh what do you think of it and what is what are all the does any thinking.

Lawrence: And it's been a great story it's been a it's been i think it could be turned into almost like how many series or a movie the story of a supplement Invisalign and smile direct fabulous and an America and so Invisalign had to delay the store opening and and the Sydney as far as I'm aware their stories two streets away from my practice so let's just turn the ball from my practice and they opened up by really weeks ago I believe and since then they've already sent us a few patients and a fear of Pharaohs so I am I'm a big believer and from my practice am i I think they're hopefully who pushed our numbers of Invisalign patients so we've been into the practice we went on the opening day on Wednesday night that are throwing a big party so hopefully i'll be able to eat and drink some of the money of paper and for some eyeliner bells over the years mmm it's very interesting to know that know how light to scan patients in store because of this motoric of really an America in which they thought they weren't gonna touch them in Australia but partly it's a were away the knowledge to scan in their stores which I find is very interest so I think that's been a big thing from what they wanted to do and I think even in the first three weeks their store probably hasn't quite half as much as the we wanted it to and by its massive it's our advantage because we're just rounding the corner so we safety essentially walk in patients from the embezzling store to our practice to scan them.

Howard: Wow that is amazing other lawsuit that was that was a wild one and it's so bizarre because I'm smiles drug club has Invisalign make their their trays right yeah and then I so so whenever you're so to me it looks like hey they're married and they're in court suing each other this is not gonna be pretty you know but I interesting but the one thing one wouldn't take away on the Invisalign chops and what people don't realize they you know if you're if you're if you don't want competition then don't then you shouldn't be able to live in the United States Canada Australia or any you should live in some underdeveloped country that didn't have competition and had crony capitalism and government saw stuff so you so you live this great society United States Canada Australia New Zealand and it's because of great competition everybody loves to live in a country with a great competition but they don't have to compete themselves but the smart people what I notice is that those invisalign stores and the smiles direct Club they're looking for the low-hanging fruit they want class 1 molar class one canine 4 or 5 millimeters you know they want the easy stuff if they don't want to class to a class 3 they don't want to take a staff and try to figure out what a 12 year old kids gonna look like when they're 18 and so in my own backyard when smiles direct Club opened five or six shops all the orthodontists are up in arms but the really hopeful neat ones he'll they just wanted to go by and see it just because I mean be like if you went to Sydney you're gonna see the opera house I mean they're Orthodox like well who wouldn't want to see the newest thing in ortho and then by pressing the flesh and be a nice and shaking their hand they found out that they turn down 80 percent of the cases because they're not technically within the parameters what they want they absolutely want class 1 molar class 1 k9 adult non-growing easy low-hanging fruit so guess who they're sending all the difficult cases to the guy that went over there running for mayor hustling pressing the flag going forward thinking and hope growth and abundance and on a Friday night what do you want to do honey when you go to a movie you want to go to restaurant now let's go see that new smiles direct Club and that cool there at a Nashville Tennessee and they're gonna go public I mean life is an attitude and with the right attitude you'll be flying at a 40,000 feet altitude and if you have a bad attitude there's nothing anyone can do for you until you fix that I can't believe man we went over we're supposed to do an hour we went over 20 minutes is there anything you wanted to talk about that I was too dumb to bring up.

Lawrence: Yeah I don't think so hers I think we've been through we've been through a lot and I think we've touched based on on almost everything that they talk about as well which is fantastic.

Howard: All right well on dental town we have 50 categories root canals fillings crowns all that one of them is the International Forum and it lists all 212 countries and the most popular one is the United Kingdom and the second is Australia we have I before the show I check to see how many we have four thousand six hundred and seventeen registered Dennis on dental town from Australia I think four hundred from New Zealand but I just want to love your country Sydney is the greatest country when I come down and see my brother Paul we'll have to go get a beer or something I don't know.

Lawrence: Yes sir.

Howard: And and right in a tunnel to see what America is gonna look like after Elon Musk gets on with this but thank you so much for coming on the show and I hope next time I see you we're drinking a beer in Sydney.

Lawrence: I look forward to it thank you very much for having me.

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