Brian Jankowski will be graduating from A.T. Still University in Mesa, Arizona on May 10, 2019. Afterwards, he will relocate to Salt Lake City, Utah, with his wife and three-year old daughter. He has joined Abundant Dental and is excited to begin working in the field of dentistry.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1195 - Brian Jankowski
AUDIO - DUwHF #1195 - Brian Jankowski
Prior to dental school, Brian worked in medical sales. He was also two-sport Division I athlete at Weber State University.
Howard: It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Brian Joukowsky who this is may 6 on a Monday and this Friday May 10th he will graduate and be a DMD doctor of medical dentistry on Friday he's currently right now he's still at school he's podcasting in for me from 80 still in Mesa Arizona my gosh afterwards he will relocate to Salt Lake City Utah with his wife and three-year-old daughter he has joined abundant dental and is excited to begin working in the field of Dentistry prior to dental school Bryan worked in the medical cells he was also a two-sport Division one athlete at Weber State University thank you so much for coming on the show buddy.
Brian: Yeah thanks for having me I really appreciate it.
Howard: My gosh doesn't it seem like just a long time from the time you decided as in grammar school you want to be a dentist until now you're finally gonna be one this Friday how does that feel.
Brian: It's nice to get through it's been a long a long path everyone tells me it's gonna feel short when it's over but I think the right now it's it's feeling a little bit like a long journey to get there so I'm excited to be done.
Howard: Oh my gosh and I love having you know we're a variety show of trying to talk about the ten different specialties business everything it's so awesome to get a person the week they're graduating from dental school tell us about your journey and you know how did how did you go from being a an athlete to a dentist and how was school and what are your plans and what what could you share with all the other kids still in they dental kindergarten school.
Brian: So my path started out at a young age I got interested in the health care industry my dad is in the healthcare industry and I I talked to him a lot about it and he got me interested in multiple fields and I finally just landed on dentistry and that was in junior high is when I really got interested in continuing on with dentistry kept my grades up got into school to play sports I played basketball football at Weber State I rode the bench in basketball I just want to be clear with that but got there had to put in a lot of effort and things like that as far as time management and I just kept my interest because my men's for during college cam Quayle he is a pediatric dentist in Utah as well and he played football at Weber State as well prior to his dentistry so I kind of just Cameron Quayle C AME ro n Quayle like a bird qu a y le.
Howard: Huh and so what are your early mentors was a pediatric dentist.
Brian: Yes sir yep and he played he played tight end at Weber State also before he went into dentistry so I just kind of bounce top ideas and then my parents pushed me along the way as well and kind of kept that fire going so I knew I had to keep my grades up and things like that but that's how I kind of continued on to the dentistry path long story short.
Howard: So a lot of those it's kind of interesting a lot of those a lot of our forefathers were big dudes like you and that was how engine-driven endo got started there was a endodontists in Chattanooga Tennessee named John mcspadden back when I was about your age and he's this monster of a man at me I mean and he showed me his hand I mean he he couldn't have done a root canal on a second molar so he had to look at that handpiece and think how can I do this via something I can hold I was amazing so how was 80 still.
Brian: It's been great it's the the clinical experience that you get at the school I feel like it's second to none the external rotations that we get while we're here are amazing you really do a lot of Dentistry on those and it's it's an environment where the more that you put in the more you get out of it so if you're really interested in doing certain things and you make that clear I think a lot of the faculty as well as those external rotations they really push you to get things done that can allow you to do better in the future.
Howard: So um can I ask a personal question what kind of student loan debt are you gonna have.
Brian: I'm gonna have quite a bit as far as I'm married.
Howard: With a baby.
Brian: Yes sir well so my wife worked full-time while we were in dental school and prior to dental school so that was really helpful and she really she helped me through this process a lot not only from that standpoint but on other stand points but unfortunately I had a full ride scholarship for undergrad so I don't have to have that build on top of my dental school loans so that's gonna help out quite a bit but what do you think you'll.
Howard: What what do you think the debt will be though is that personal.
Brian: No I think when it's all done it'll be between 250 to 300.
Howard: So two hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand dollars to live in the richest country in the world the United States as a doctor I am an and and on and you go ass on Cameron Quayle who's been a pediatric dunce how many years you've been a pediatric dentist up there.
Brian: I actually don't know a number to put on that but all it's in the double digits he.
Howard: Asked him to tell you in all of his years Adam as a pediatric dentists on what's the average divorce cost from all of his dentist friends out there I mean everybody freaks out about the $300,000 student loan I just want to remind him their first divorce will be well north of a million dollars so I think I think three hundred thousand dollars to become a doctor in America it's obviously still a good buy because look how many people are still applying to dental school every time there is a price ten thousand the the demand doesn't drop so it's okay so you're sitting here right now and you know the average specialist in America Nets net income is about a hundred thousand dollars more than a general dentist so your fan camera was a pediatric dentists did you have thoughts of specializing or did you want to be a general dentists or how did your thinking go on this.
Brian: I went into dental school actually with the thought that I was going to specialize in pediatrics and I think a lot of that had to do with Cameron Quayle but I stepped away from that because I kind of opened the door to all of the specialties and just kind of got an understanding for everything I didn't want to close the door on anything because I knew that that would just be a good way to shoot myself in the foot basically and then get done with dental school and maybe wish that I had focused on something a little bit more so my plan was to stay general and my wife and I had a really good talk about that because I have a really strong interest in business and i've always had a strong interest in business as well as helping patients on every level I kind of want to be a one-stop shop and for the things that really are outside of my realm i'll absolutely refer those but as far as you know helping patients and then keeping that business mentality that's general just seem like the best fit for everything.
Howard: So for the two guys that are listening today that are older to me we keep hearing all these things you know that Millennials are so different you know how it goes and all that kind of stuff in your class how BIG's your graduation class I think we.
Brian: It's a little over 70 I think it 74 maybe.
Howard: Okay of those 74 kids how many of them do you think um like business like the business of dentistry it would like to own their own business as opposed of saying hello I'd never do that I want to go work for Aspen I don't like to put a number on it but just to guesstimate it I would say about I would say about maybe twenty to thirty really do like the business side the other just kind of want to have a different route but that's a guest I mean i've never dug into that too much with a lot of people but I do know there there's a good handful of people that are interested in the business side.
Howard: And how many do and they also told us to change that now that the dental profession went from mostly male you know GV black and peer for sure to half the class being women that the women are more likely to just want a job so they can go home and not to worry about the business do you think that's true or not true.
Brian: I think that's also that's case specific because I think that there are a lot of people a lot of women out there who are very interested in the business side I know that for a fact one of the doctors that I worked was pretty closely Stephanie Mohan she's very strong in the business side and and I really enjoy talking to her I think that she's got a lot of really good things going she's kind of on the forefront of some oh.
Howard: How did you meet Stephanie Mohan clear out in Iowa.
Brian: Yeah so I actually listen to a lot of these podcasts starting my first year and I would reach out to a lot of the doctors when I felt like they were someone who I really respected from listening to them and things like that and I would try and con act them and just pick their brains and things like that and dr. Mohan and I I heard her first on your podcast actually and dr. Mohan and I started talking during my beginning in my second year the end of my first year one of the two and she just kept the door open and she had a lot of great ideas she was a great mentor with a lot of opportunities and I actually have talked with her we still keep in touch she's got a good thing going.
Howard: Ah she's amazing she was on episode I 140 and my gosh what an amazing role model and what I love about people like Stephanie Stephanie in Des Moines Iowa is that she's not doing this multi-million dollar practice and Beverly Hills she's doing it in Iowa I mean I mean Ann and Iowa you know every time I go to back home to which town I drive around and all this those small town people they all or driving $40,000 f-150s to $90,000 f250s and anyone of any new combine that i've sat on in the last five years was somewhere between 300 and 600 thousand dollars I mean these farmers got Bank and and she doesn't have the mindset of thinking with your brakes on and if someone walks in her office and she knows she's gonna they're gonna end up being the 20% of Americans at age 74 of zero teeth she's already to present a fifty thousand dollar tree of land she doesn't think it is here and these people that say that they don't want to do that I'm like well what do you want to sell why don't you just if you want to sell houses throw your dental degree away and go get it real estate's license because you're only gonna live once dude you're only gonna live the longest anyone's lived on earth so far is a million hours just spend it doing what you like and if you and if you learn and if you don't think saving your teeth is a great idea but buying a house or a boat or a car is then switch professions i mean ii ii don't think with her brakes on i don't think with my brakes on and you're gonna go to Utah and they're all gonna say oh well we're just poor little Utah we're not rich San Francisco and and I got a big family and and it's like and and what is your question you don't want to have any teeth when you're 74 but you want to buy 13 new cars the average American will buy 13 new cars with a median average price of $33,000 between age 16 and 77 and so your point is what that when you pay your last payment you'll go upgrade for a new f-150 pickup truck but you want to you want to leave all your teeth on the table I mean come on it's ridiculous it's simply ridiculous so so so what so tell us more about your journey so after this Friday what would your first move then.
Brian: My little one she's my little three-year-olds gonna finish out her schooling she'd had like a pre preschool that she's gonna finish up on next Thursday and they didn't yeah we're gonna we're gonna hang out with her and just play with her and then we actually move on May 19th we'll be in Utah we got a house out there and then i'll get going I'm gonna start the end of May with abundant dental and I'm actually gonna start regardless of when my license comes in I'm gonna start assisting just to kind of understand the back office with some things like that and how they run everything just to get a better feel for everything and then I think that'll make the transition more smooth when my license does come through and we'll go from there.
Howard: At the UM so abundant dental that's started by the genius pioneer Chris Knight do you pronounce Annie Bower name our name our Chris name our so talked about your journey how did you run into that guy.
Howard: So doctor named Bower him and I and then anne-marie we we started talking I was on one of my external rotations and you know his philosophy and what he presents and kind of how he pushes his people I mean he started having me read books he sent it over some CE courses he just really got the ball rolling and then he explained some of his background as far as he had 26 practices in the DC area and then he sold those to a I guess conglomeration and kind of moved on Utah is him and his wife fell in love with Park City so we just kept the conversation line open and from there he just continued on with you know offering the job and I liked what he was doing I like his future plan he wants to have you know 400 practices and things like that he's really trying to grow from a business standpoint and and and get the ball rolling with that.
Howard: I thought I thought he sold all of his practices and retired to park city. Lunch said he'd talk Wow it feels small out east yep.
Brian: He got rid of him in DC and then he's trying to redo it in Utah so right now he has three currently and he was buying he was purchasing or in the works of purchasing the fourth one during my interview but his plan long-term is to have 400 in the West area.
Howard: That is amazing well tell him to come on the show and talk about it.
Brian: You would probably love to it'd be a great person to talk to.
Howard: Because the thing I tell these kids you know sometimes you get a bad attitude they wish had their own office and they're working for some corporate dentisti'm like dude did somebody somebody at Heartland is managing 900 offices are you pretty sure there's nothing you could learn from that because I'm pretty damn sure that if you comprehended about 10% of what Rick worked for in and Pat Bauer know you'd have a million you probably be collecting a million five taking home at 350 two years out of school and so so so so you're gonna go get a job at abundant and you do want to be you're gonna be an employee how long do you want to be unemployed as your longer goal to open your own office that you own yourself what's your what are you thinking at this age.
Brian: It's a long term that I want to own practices and I want to own my practices and I want to run practices and things like that and kind of like I said the business side is really interesting to me but I want to keep my hands in the dentistry and within the first six to 12 months he's gonna have me running the practice which will really give me some hands-on skills I'm all about being thrown in the fire I think that's a good way to learn and I think you need to be a little bit you know understanding of the business side before you can just get thrown into the fire with something as important as dentistry you can't just jump in there blindly so the first six to 12 months they'll really just have me understanding everything and then from there they'll you know they'll kind of hold my hand through the process I'm sure but the plan is I'm gonna practice and then from there we'll just grow.
Howard: Yeah and the the greatest company's ever built were people that made the product I mean you know engineers started Ford that started hewlett-packard you know I'm Sam Walton was a genius supply chain management guy that's where all that came from so I'm at crossroads of going forward should dental offices be owned by non dentists it's kind of scary I mean at the end of the day we're doing dentistry by dentists I don't I don't know if I want it ran by someone from Wharton School of Business I mean runs I lose on these horrors of non dental people making dental decisions so I think if anybody should manage chain of dental offices it should be a dentist who can roll up his sleeves and get down there and and do some dentistry.
Brian: Right that's exactly how I feel I think it's something to keep the integrity of the profession.
Howard: And I think I'm so on so so you're gonna work in on what would city you're gonna be cameron's and what Pleasant View Utah's gonna be Salt Lake City.
Brian: I'll be in sugarhouse which is just a little suburb of Salt Lake City but currently dr. Navarro has practices in sugarhouse Murray and Riverton and then dr. Quail he's got practices up and down that Valley from Ogden down to he has one in Salt Lake I know that and I think he has another one in between there so.
Howard: Do demographics matter I mean are you or you wanting to go to Utah because I mean I assume if you're at 80 still going to Utah that your LDS.
Howard: You got a bundle of you're not LDS.
Brian: No and it's amazing how many interviews I went on and got asked that question.
Howard: Why dog you look at this they're always gorgeous handsome people I mean they are they just they're just they're just amazing people.
Brian: And pretty too.
Howard: So so if you're not going there for that reason it would was was that the best demographic place to go or was it the leadership more with Cameron Quayle opportunity that overrode demographics.
Brian: I think that there were a lot of pieces that went into this I think that being close to our family was important both my wife and my family live in Idaho Falls which is three hours north were in the surrounding area of Idaho applause so it was nice to be close to family and demographics are really important I started doing demographics early early on and surprisingly I think at the end of the day Utah gets a stigma and I think a lot of people preach that it's this bad place to go and there aren't opportunities and things like that and I think it's been said so many times that people just spew that because people tell me that all the time now when I tell them I'm going to Utah but if you look at a lot of the demographics that I researched as far as growing as far as a business safe environment as far as people that actually go to the dentist and opportunities for dentists and businesses and small businesses Utah is a great place Salt Lake is a booming environment right now dr. Demographic I know you're searched and stuff right now but dr. Demographic he's got me Scott my dad and he yeah and he does a lot of this stuff so he he always does a kiss of death and thriving areas he just recently did is the 2019 kiss of death areas but his 2018 thriving areas number six on the list I think was Salt Lake City for best metropolitan areas in the nation as far as where.
Howard: So did you say for demographic information or did you do it with dr. Google instead of dr. Deborah covers I mean did you try to do this online I mean just put it in put it in work.
Brian: I did a lot of my own research with dr. Demographic he does weekly podcasts where he talks about everything and I always tune into those or I watch the reruns of those and things like that and that gave me a lot of opportunities to understand and then I I mean my my wife put up with a lot but I was a little almost I don't I was obsessive with demographics because I just want to make sure that my family was in the right position for success and I want to take care of them so I was pretty obsessive with demographics yeah I mean I was born a reason Wichita Kansas and all the dentists that I became friends with from seventh-grade Tulane dental school every time I would come home from any break I go visit a half-a-dozen um you know Kenny Anderson doctor Peppard Peltzer Knutson and they would always whined that you know the population of which had been the same for 20 years and every year 30 40 new dentists come from Creighton and UMKC and their income goes down every single year so I got really focused on demographics land and landed up in Phoenix and everybody told me how lucky I was because I was in Phoenix I'm lucky I'm a thousand miles away from where my mom is I mean you know and if demographics don't matter then go to the Congo and practice there for five years and then call me and tell me how the Congo is going so demographics absolutely matter and then within a city you might find little pockets like in Phoenix I mean there there's areas in the middle of nowhere that have a dentist for every 500 people and then some area 40 minutes away as a dentist for every 6,000 and then you got to look at the demographics through the hours because there's 168 hours in a week but on Sunday there's not a dentist in Utah and on Saturday there's maybe three and so I sail that in San Francisco where people go into San Francisco they go well you know nobody needs me Monday through Thursday 8:00 to 5:00 so I'm gonna do Monday through Thursday from 12 to 9 p.m. And open up on Saturday and and they're just crushing it because and look at me I mean my practice the worst thing about my practice is that I'm the owner and I'm old fat lazy tired my four kids have turned into five grandkids I don't want a hustle I said but it's less again to you what what are you 25.
Brian: I'm 30 I just turned this.
Howard: So so you're 30 you know how much more energy you have than a 57 year old dog like me I mean so so the young and the hungry doing evenings weekend so what's your plan when um so what you plan you're gonna go up there and start learning the dentistry from a great mentor and that's another thing a takeaway point that you know these people always look at a dental job as which one's gonna paying the most money well what if your whole passion was learning this line and here's a guy over here that's paying less but is does you know 20 Invisalign cases a month and you end up taking jobs somewhere else that doesn't even do anything you're interested and I think it's so genius of you that what you're most excited about is mentor you're gonna be working for your mentor I mean right that'll be great oh it's everything you can't put a price tag on that.
Brian: Right and that was my thought back to your question though my plan up there is to just hit the ground running and learn as much as I can and be as hands-on as possible fortunately we're open on Saturdays and Sundays and I think that's gonna pull in so many people you're on Sunday.
Howard: He's open on Sunday and.
Howard: That's one thing that I love I think that there are a lot of things that people aren't doing that you you made small little pivots and little tweaks to your business and all of a sudden you know that production that comes from that is you know you're doing much better than the person down the street because they just haven't changed the way and I think that's another thing with Utah Utah I think that you know if you do that everything the same as everybody else then you're probably gonna get the same result but if you try and tweak some of the stuff that you're doing and changing and open up the doors a little bit longer and you know tension some of those people that camp can't come in Monday through Friday because they have a job also then all the sudden your production goes up your case except and goes up everything like that so I think that you just need to pivot and from there you'll have growth.
Howard: I love how you mm have a background in medical sales experience and in dental school you're ambassador for immediately meeting what is it metal I know scrubs and.
Brian: Smile virtue virtual smile virtual yet yeah mentally scrubs is um it's a influencer for them so I I promote their scrubs and they send discounts and things like that and they have great a great product so that's that but smile virtual is something that when I talk about pivoting and and having the way of the future that's something that people should really look into because that is a game changer for.
Howard: That's owned by a genius Brian C Harris right here in Phoenix Arizona has been on the show he's been pioneering innovating stuff his entire career so so talk about what he's doing with smile virtual why what is why does smile virtual comm excite you.
Brian: That is something that I think that truly can change a practice I think the way he explains it is Kobayashi he was the hotdog guy right mm-hmm he explains that a lot of people were eating hot dogs just the normal way when they were doing those dog competitions but then Kobayashi came in and he ate a hot dog differently and all the sudden he broke the record and then he's the guy and he changes the game all this and smile virtual is kind of a new way to eat a hotdog basically and what it does is it's a virtual console where people can send in a couple pictures of them explain what they do or do not like about their smile what they would like to change you know some of the things that they've heard about and then from there the dentist can send back a virtual and video console and explain hey these are some of the things that we can do these are some of the things that have been done with a case similar yorkers so you'll send over some pictures this this show you know what six veneers look like and then you send that to them and you say this is how many appointments it's likely gonna take this is the cost and you know do you want to schedule an appointment and so you cut out the middleman and then you change all of your leads go straight to that and they can schedule an appointment so I mean the biggest thing when you're doing a big cosmetic case whether it's Invisalign veneers all-on-four or anything like that a lot of times it's the financial aspect and on top of that it's hey I gotta go talk to my spouse or go talk to my friend about it before I make this big decision well now they can have them in on the virtual consult with them so you take out the middleman and you speed up the process not only is the consult shorter but your case acceptance can go up everything so I think that's a business move that can really truly change the future.
Howard: You know cosmetic some people are really attract that some people you know they're all attracted everything what what in dental school what types of Dentistry excited you I mean do you want to learn molar endo do you want to place implants you're talking about cosmetic dentistry is is that what's really captured your imagination the most is cosmetic dentistry.
Brian: I have an interest in in almost everything I really enjoy oral surgery I like fixed-price I enjoy endo we I had some good experience with molar endo and I still I still like endo so I'm enjoyin biz aligned into our school to do a free certification course for our class and I think that's a really interesting product implants I want to get going on those a little bit more we get experience but I I know that I need to get more experience with that I truly the bread-and-butter feeling drilling all that I think it's all interesting to me that's another reason why I stayed general.
Howard: Ha that is amazing um you know I I always have that dilemma because you know the specials make a hundred thousand dollars more than the general dentist 120 years ago nineteen hundred healthcare at no special leaves only one percent of GDP by the time I got to the year 2000 it was 14% of the economy had 58 specialties with MDS and now and nine with general dentists now we're 2020 and there's ten specialists do you really think we can go back to 1900 where a dentist is going to be exceptional at root canals fillings crowns and visit line implants bone grafting sleep apnea TMJ I mean yeah I mean do you really think you can just be doctor everything.
Brian: I think that is risky to become truly doctor everything I think you need to be a realist and realize what kind of things you need to to pass to a specialist I think that it's a good idea though to have some knowledge on everything and then to get to the point where you're comfortable doing you know I'm not gonna do every single molar endo that comes in the door I think that's a bad idea not only for the patient but for the time of everything and I think that I'm not gonna do every single wisdom tooth extraction or anything like that I think it's just it's it's a safety thing at that point but I think that I need to have knowledge on everything so if nothing else I can at least inform the patient on on things.
Howard: So how in your mind are you you can't learn everything at once I'm gonna take it takes me you know all these different institutions where would you prioritize it going to where'd you say you're going did you say sugar city.
Brian: Sugar house yep sugar house.
Howard: That is so funny a general dentist invented cotton candy I thought that was funny it was called fairy dust when he started but going to sugar house even though a dentist should never be around sugar where would you prioritize the most important you know you should go where they ain't and create a supply what they're demanding what do you think they're demand in a sugar house for the most last you think it'd be implants cosmetic those line kids where do you how do you rank the demand.
Brian: I think the kids are gonna be a big one in Utah period but I think that implants a lot of people are interested in that for the future but I think that Utah big thing is gonna be cosmetics and I think veneers and crowns and those kinds of things are gonna be a big piece along with the normal general dentistry stuff but I think implants crowns veneers and that's why that Smile virtual I think is is I mean you're speeding up the process increasing case acceptance like I said you got to do things a little bit different to be successful especially in a place where people say that it's a tough place that to be successful I mean that's you got it that's stuff i'll really focus on.
Howard: Yeah I do want to say one caveat in the cosmetic dentistry because I bet it does here 32 years and my gosh everybody who's crushing cosmetics is hot like you I mean you can when I did my demographics there was this place north North Scottsdale like a hundred first in the Olinda and all we to key which is you know all tickets it's actually Phoenix but he asked anyone I would took IDI live in Phoenix they say no I live in all with two key and I'm like well you might want to talk to your mailman but I did not go to Scott's and I gave it to my best friend from dental school Steve Ace and he went there because Steve was hot and he just pulled up it if you want to go get a tummy tuck or a facelift or veneers and some short fat bald guy walked in the room like that yeah it's just very different and when you look at the dorfmans and you said the ABA's and all things like man if you're thinking about going into cosmetic dentistry I think the first thing you need to do is look in the mirror and say do you just reek enthusiastic cosmetics you do I mean hell your hair that second it's a wig you know but I'm you know I I really you know so I I truly believe I I know of no one that looks like me who's doing two million dollars a year in cosmetic dentistry so I'm cosmetics and it's also cool that you just like it I mean some people you know I want you said there are some molars you don't want to do those are the only ones I want to do I don't want to do a molar on or a canine hell I wish the hygienist could do that for us I I want I want the retreat on a second molar so I know you're in sports how come why do you think it is that when you're in sports you love the competition you'd you're ready for the game you're ready to just do a hundred percent and then that same mindset walks into dentistry and looks at the PA says well that that can help might be sclerosed and it might be hard to find and I think we're just not gonna show I think we're just gonna punt this game and do a default wire and then I know so many dentists who are like that all week Monday through Friday and then we and then when they go golfing on Saturday that they're trying to be Tiger Woods okay why don't you try to be Tiger Woods in the operatory what why do you think there's such a diversity of that.
Brian: As far as people being competitive outside of dentistry.
Howard: Yeah and then in dentistry they're just like dr. Wimpy that's like what way is that.
Brian: I have no idea I know that my mentality is kind of a go-getter mentality and I think that's from sports and I think that I really you know I it's it comes from a place that the best person gets the best job type of thing and I think that that's why I try and always push to do the best work but I don't know i've noticed that too a lot of people you know they're competitive outside of it but then they see like you said a certain thing and they just don't want to push to do it but I think you got to make yourself uncomfortable you got to be comfortable with the uncomfortable and I think that's something that I gained from athletics and maybe that's why I feel like I have that.
Howard: Another thing they they always fear that they're gonna mess up and get sued well guess what everybody's gonna get sued once you know you should worry about that your dental malpractice carrier it's like I know when my boys would call me up they wrecked their car I I never asked you know how much I asked that is everybody fine that that's one thing that matters the person should worry about my four boys driving a car is State Farm not me and so on I'm just I just go in there and have some fun so when you um so you're saying go to sugar house is gonna be great needs for pediatric dentistry implants cosmetic as far as routine dentistry as you set out on your journey to master these disciplines how do you think you'll do it do you think online you think you'll do go to courses I mean how how let's start with cosmetics how where are you gonna learn how to be a great cosmetic dentist.
Brian: I had been fortunately with this position he offers the whole online library for spear education so i've been working with Frank spear online non-stop learning all the cosmetics of everything implant placements and I know that I need to do some of the hands-on stuff but I think when you can really conceptualize it and watch his videos Frank spear does a great job at just basically dumbing it down and walking people through it so i've taken so many C courses from him already not only on those two subjects on a lot of other subjects because like I said I wanted to do and have the knowledge on most things in the industry but I think that that'll be my first step and then from there i'll be actively pursuing and listening to what are the best courses as far as implants cosmetics everything like that.
Howard: So so um you know do this so Frank's fear online that's pretty a lot more lower costs and Frank spear in person I mean on I mean I leave these online cords like dental town has 400 online courses and they're like an uber fare for each one and people pass over that and pay an uber fare to go the airport fly across the country drop three grand I mean it's just a lot easier to learn online don't you think.
Brian: It's I mean it's more convenient for sure.
Howard: Well how many times when you're watching that online course do you think I really need to be in the room looking over your shoulder why he's doing that actually.
Brian: So far I have not thought that and the reason is is because I can just always reverse it and go back and watch that again take some notes I can kind of go at my own pace if that makes sense and and just kind of work through it in my own process and if I have any questions I can look them up online at the same time that I'm watching the courses so I think that it's actually been a nicer fit for me right now as far as convenience and how to go through the the videos and reverse and then watch everything again.
Howard: Yeah so um so what would you consider spear when you consider that cosmetic seclusion J full mouth rehab word what do you um where would you put his genre.
Brian: I've watched videos on every one of those but I know that he does have a lot of warm dentition and stuff that he's kind of known for and then Pete Dawson's more of the occlusion person to go to so I read his book too but I think as far as worn dentition and cosmetics I think that's what her Frank probably takes the cake and.
Howard: Where are you gonna learn implant training.
Brian: I've done some courses through spear but I think that i've heard good things about implant pathways but I know movie yeah just a movie out here so I'm interested in possibly going that route because I think that implants is something that you truly need to do hands on I know that there's opportunity for a hands-on experience in abundant where the doctors there will walk you through an implant case and they'll do it with you and things like that so that's probably gonna be you know step one and then really understand it and then continue on ce courses.
Howard: Wow so what do you what advice um do you have for the kids in dental school that aren't graduating for another one two or three years on preparing for this day that comes to you this Friday.
Brian: I think it's never too early to start looking for a job for one and I think you need to keep your eyes and ears open to everything I think you can't discredit anything and you can't close the door to any opportunities I think you need to truly just be a sponge and taking everything and when a doctor says are you willing to do this case if you feel comfortable and confident I think schools such a good place for you to go in and do the work because at the end of the day you do have a seasoned doctor right behind you can bail you out.
Howard: So what's the attitude prevailing beliefs about leaving dental school and going to work for a big major DSO that's got a hundred boxes and are you hearing good things well what are you hearing.
Brian: It's a mixed bag with that one and I think that I mean I looked into it because I think that it's a good opportunity like you said earlier on you can learn a lot from those people because they they've been doing it and they've been doing basically what everybody else is trying to do from a business standpoint so you should probably take their advice but it's a mixed bag I think a lot of people poorly I think that a lot of these opportunities if you look at them from certain ways I mean every opportunity has its pros and cons it's just depending on what fits and works for you so I think like I said it's a mixed bag I think that there are a lot of positives especially with heartland I think does a lot of really good things specifically because some good things i've heard you know good things about some of the others –.
Howard: Yeah those have the best brand names in dental school Heartland and Pacific I mean you meant you mentioned Rick workman and Heartland and Steven Thorne and Pacifica there are those the two best brands of the dsos or their other reserve.
Brian: I think I hear the best the majority of the things that are good that I hear come from Heartland and then I would say Pacific's right next door to that and then Aspen those are kind of the three key players that you hear about as far as the Big dsosand things like that but I would say Heartland probably gets the best rep and then from there yes just record.
Howard: And how long do you think they work at dsos our associates for anyone until they want to start thinking about starting their own business.
Brian: So i've heard you know you hear the numbers and the statistics and things like that some people leave after years some people you know leave after three to five and I think three to five is probably a pretty good guess because I think that's where you the most of the doctors who I talked to they say it takes about five years for you to truly get comfortable and confident with with everything you're doing so I would that would be just a guess but it also depends some of them some people are doing it is a you know they know it's an interim because they're just waiting for their dad to finish building their other practice that they're gonna go work in you know what I mean yeah.
Howard: So um well what would you advise to a young dental student that's in dental school or just are their own practice and to learn more business information where do you think people can learn the business of dentistry the best fastest easiest lowest cost.
Brian: Podcast I think podcasts are gonna be the best place because I do yours dental preneur the thriving dentist all those podcast dental hacks I think those have so many good tips and like I said if you are willing to go out and contact some of the people that are on there that are I mean at the forefront I mean not talked with Brady Frank at nauseam because he just had so much knowledge about business and I just picked his brain so I think if you can get in contact with some of these doctors who are truly you know at the top of the business game where you want to be if you see someone doing what you want to do contact them that's why I contacted you i've contacted mark Costas I mean I just my goal is to learn as much as I can from people like you and all those people that are doing the business side.
Howard: Yeah and and you know what all those people you know these podcasts they're a lot of work I mean that is a hell lot of work and it's free and its own the service I mean that shows you what kind of profession you are where all these people are working and really hard to get you faster easier information for free and it's really a cool profession and and the part of the networking thing is so important a lot of dentists and are just like physicists and chemists or they're shy introvert people and in a social I mean we live in a social herd of eight billion humans living on about 5% of the surface of this planet seventy percent water and man it's know just what you know it's who you know and that and that kid I mean I meet Dennis all-time and I'm pointing across three to a dental office cross street and I said how long have you practiced resting that guy seven years when's the last time you've had dinner with him I never I say are you four are you an alien there's both dentists I mean I mean so so um do you think it's good this come from your sports your family where did you get to have the just the foresight and the energy to call Brady Frank I mean most people in your class if you just told me had to call Brady Frank they'd probably be stress and have anxiety and run talk about the importance of networking.
Brian: I think networking is huge and I don't think that it I think networking is huge because I think it gets you in front of the people who are important for you to have opportunities and I think that you need to go out and get opportunities you never want to get in the situation where should it coulda woulda and I think I saw that too many times growing up and I think also you know my parents and my brother really you know we they promote a hard-working attitude and and that to me networking is a piece of that you need to get to know people and you need to just move on and I think you know sometimes you got to do some of the uncomfortable things to get to where you want to be and I think the networking is is something that people truly are uncomfortable with and I think it's just a natural knack because of my sales background - I think that I was just comfortable with contacting people and just talking to them and hey you know what can I do to get in your position teach me type of thing and people have a good response to that a lot of times true truly because you're basically saying you're an expert teach me what you know so I can get to where you are it's a compliment when you reach out to someone and I think you have to go into it with that mentality.
Howard: This August 4th will be my 30 year anniversary at my first lecture in New York City and I graduated in 87 and I gave my first lecture and 90 memories like wait you can't go lecture you're a third year you know 28 29 year old idiot and and who who would listen you know I said well I think I know two or three things but the reason I'm gonna start lecturing says if I throw my name out and my hat out and in the crowd it's gonna open up all these doors and opportunities and I need all these people so I started lecturing when I knew almost perfectly nothing right and I the best seminar ever was the first time I went to Cincinnati was in I it was in 1990 I think there was like four dentists I showed up to my seminar and everything and and when you know one led to the first break two left to lunch there's one guy he says hey and so lecture me when do you fly on I said a Morrow morning goes well why don't you cancel your hotel and comes to the right me and we talked about dentistry all night long and you know and and it's just I can trace back everybody I met from this guy who I met from this guy it's so networking and the other thing I think it's great about is when you when you get in your office you walk across street and the person thinks that you know you shouldn't came here and you're competition Asia's as- well you needed to do that to be able to cross his name off the list because about half thinking fear and scarcity and think half think like you and me and hope growth and abundance and you just need to quickly find just like in the interview process who cares you had interview Tennyson yet you you didn't know this one was the best until you knew these five were not the best so just get out there and press the flesh and run for mayor and all these people who think optimistically hope growth of the buttons and also it's a natural thing to want to take a kid under your wing you don't mean and and when you're talking about implant training I would you learn implants from somebody in Salt Lake that can bail you out when you have the problem not jump on an airplane and have to fly to the Dominican Republic or something iiii don't know why dentists are taking all these expensive implant courses when there's this shy adorable PD PD periodontist across the street he doesn't have the the guts to come over and shake your hand and when you drop in on him he's so excited and he wants to tell you everything he knows in fact your first implant kid I guarantee you he's got to implant kits he stopped using years ago I mean you shouldn't have to buy an implant kit every pair Adonis I know has five or six kits and we'll never use three of them ever again so there's a gator starter kit but same with Invisalign half the orthodontist will say last thing I need you is you do it at this line I mean I got I got smiles Direct Club I got and then and then the other one just like I want to be buddies with with you because my god you know you're gonna be here in Salt Lake for 30 40 years million dollar practice and I'm sure there's some ortho in there that he doesn't want to do right you know and so yeah that is on so just learn learn learn if you're gonna learn ortho before you take a course I'd be having a buddy that's an orthodontist before you start placed implants I'd have a buddy that's a periodontist oral surgeon pediatric dentist you know all that stuff you know because you're always gonna get in over your head on some case on some patient and you're gonna want a friend not memories lecher in New York City.
Brian: Right that's true yep agree with that.
Howard: Yeah so we'll sort lsat what other advice did you want to impart today.
Brian: Um you know I think keeping up with the knowledge I think that you always got to be growing I think that's one thing that I think would be a good tip to anybody that's going into this profession and just keep up with with some of the trends of social media too I think the social media is growing so much that's a piece that unfortunately you're gonna have to get used to doing so that's those are my two tips.
Howard: So so when you say social media you switch gears to more is that marketing new patient acquisition is that how you view social media is it just purely a marketing play or using it to somehow else.
Brian: I think that it's a marketing play but I also think that it's a little bit of accountability I think that it's the same thing with these podcasts I think you gotta hold yourself accountable but I think that at the end of the day everything's going towards the Internet in some form and social media is one of those avenues right now where when somebody search for a dentist they're gonna search on Google they're gonna search on Instagram they're gonna search on Facebook and if you don't have a good rating or if you don't have a presence then they're never gonna know about you so even if you're the best dentist in the whole state but you don't have a website it's gonna make you really miss out on opportunities by not having a website or an Instagram and that's that same thing with that smile virtual I mean it coaches you up on how to do that to make your presence a little bit more known and then it can drive your sales from that end because it's a piece that so many people are missing out on that piece of the pie right now and I think it's you have to I mean it's the way of the future whether you like it or not.
Howard: So what do you think of these I'm is that okay the new social media is all the social medias on what we're we're is or dental students at in social media are they have they left Facebook because their moms on it now now their grandmas on it are they into Instagram snapchat where when you're when you go back to Utah and you want to start focusing on social media which ones from the top to the bottom are you gonna be spending your time and sources on.
Brian: I think with a profession like dentistry I think Instagram is gonna be a good one for people with my age group and then I think that Facebook's gonna be a good one to get everybody else because I and then if you can connect the two from there I think Facebook and Instagram are gonna do the best for dentist right now Twitter I think it's good to have a presence but I don't know if it's gonna be the best one for dentistry I think people want videos and pictures of dentistry and an understanding because a lot of times you know we talked to these patients sometimes like they understand you know some of these terms but they don't so it's easier in picture format to let them know that this is what you could get from a before and after and they like seeing before and afters.
Howard: Now I know I'm old and I'm probably older than your dad and I know you said you're young and like it's gonna be you but you know the other one that you got it you gotta keep your eye on is linkedin because everybody on Linkedin has a great job with benefits there is no one on linkedin that's unemployed doesn't have dental and doesn't want to have a nice smiley teeth I mean my gosh and then when you get someone in from linkedin you know around here they they work at Intel well how many people work for Intel that are an engineer with dental insurance ah I love linkedin but I but I know the young like Instagram and the old like Facebook I knew Facebook was doomed when my mom told me she loved it and and I know they don't be going so I'm talk to the old people of thing that just always tell me what what is what is Instagram and snapchat what what is it with that what why would you like Instagram more than Facebook do the people who don't get it.
Brian: I I think as far as from a dentistry standpoint mmm I think that it's it's more conceptual I think you can just open up and look at pictures you can search by what you're interested in things like that and then you can kind of get just a picture view of everything that's going on it's less it can be less wordy but you can also put the words in there to explain things I think it's just a quick instant gratification I guess is one way to put it because that's kind of what social media is but the pictures just make it a little bit more easy to understand what's going on especially from a dentistry standpoint but I mean I'm currently reading the book crushing it and there was a dentist in New Jersey who she made a presence on musically which i've never used musically and it's an app more for you know teens and and younger and she made a booming amount of patience because of that app because kids would tell their parents I want to go to this dentist can we drive to New Jersey to go to this dentist and she got new patients just because of musically so I think that you know any Avenue can be successful but I think Instagram is kind of a simple one because of the picture format.
Howard: Okay so you're uh you have a lot of ambition youth energy and you want to own a chain of dental offices one day how are you gonna get from what would your plan to get from here to there and what would what do you think you'll need to and to achieve that goal.
Brian: Well I think that i'll need more knowledge I'm I mean I'm not I don't know everything I need to know right now but I know that I'm I'm growing every day and I think that I need to keep in touch with people who are successful and kind of move on from there I need to contact people that have like minds like me and just have a growth mentality with that and I think they're doing things like this you know getting my name out there with this podcast and things like that as well as the social media presence I think that you just got to be ahead of it and you got to be willing to to pick up on new software's and move with the times like that because things are changing too quickly.
Howard: Who are your role models and on the corporate dentistry dso world I look up to doctor named Bauer I think he's doing a lot of things and he's pushed me you know he's changed me a lot as far as his education standpoint and industry I look up to dr. Mohan a lot I think that she's got a lot of really good foundational things that that can be incredibly successful as far as a business standpoint and I look up to I'm spacing on his name right now the doctor for Heartland.
Howard: Ah Rick workman.
Brian: Yeah Rick workman I think what he's doing is phenomenal and I think that's somebody you know I actually tried to contact him I couldn't find his contact information anywhere.
Howard: Oh my gosh all you gotta do is send me an email.
Brian: But then I will do that.
Howard: Yeah and i'll reply you both yeah um but you know what it's it's really amazing like if you go there and you stay in Rick Warren's house I mean grew up in Effingham Illinois he's like the most quality guy he'd ever meet in your life and and his whole corporate culture is a bunch of people like that in Effingham and then you go out and meet Steve Harmon see Thorne's a type of guy work when he wanted to go on vacation safari in Africa his wife brought home two kids I mean two orphans I mean they're just good people and all people don't like competition but you really want to watch the Super Bowl where the Cardinals show up and there's no opposing player and then you and you're gonna feel good about it I mean competition brings out the best of you and I like a lot of the things to do so what I like the most about the dsos is how they provide so much employment to these young dental students because all the older guys like me their dental office in 168 hours in a week they're only open 32 so that the office isn't even open 81% of the week an eight and a half percent of all the emergency room visits in America or a daunted genican origin and that's why in fact my orthopedic surgeon friend up the street has been a patient mine forever I mean he says the reason he says dentists aren't real doctors is because when you're out on the golf course they have to go to the hospital and see him he's like no I said you know he says pretty sad when orthopedic surgeons are helping out in the emergency room and we're then we're all sitting there like dude one in ten of these people are teeth related we're the hairs the dentist and they you know so I mean that so I hope these dsos will add more competitive pressure I mean I think Americans should have the right to order a pizza and have it delivered to their home within 30 minutes 24 hours a day seven days a week and the emergency rooms and the pizza deliveries are doing that where's the dentist.
Brian: Right agree.
Howard: They don't want to hustle times I mean I mean we're making 175 thousand dollars a year on average why are you gonna go out there and work hard well well get a business model and I see it they'll bring on an associate and they'll work the same hours as the old guy it's like how does that mean that doubles your production but it doesn't double your availability a day and as far as like Facebook ads and all that kind of stuff I don't care how good your facebook ad is when they call your office and you're closed they're gonna call the next guy and the next guy and the next guy and they're really young ambitious ones they Ford their phone over to their own iphone and they start telling about a toothache they say well call me back facetime me back and then you're saying you're looking at in their mouth I mean it's all about hustle and when you say you got to get out there and hustle and act like you're running for mayor that that's just it I mean that's all you got to do you go out there with a great attitude and you hustle and you think and hope growth in abundance and you work like no man has for a decade you'll live like no man has for three decades.
Brian: Exactly you know exactly and you won't have to go back to work and hustle until after you get the alimony check and then so that's uh that'll cost you more your street loans you don't be careful in that um what would Olson what what else advice do you have for these young kids.
Brian: Um you know I didn't my advice is if you ever have any questions for me feel free to reach out cuz I know it was it was useful for me to have people that I could reach out to so if anybody wants to reach out to me as far as questions with dental school as far as the process of getting accepted and things like that or the smile virtual if they want to reach out I can do consults with that and I can get you in contact so we can get you that product anything that you have questions on feel free to reach out email and how would you want to reach out to you.
Brian: Email or Instagram is a perfect way to reach out to me.
Howard: Email or Instagram so yeah so do you want to give your email address now or your other not sure.
Brian: I can give it to it's a B as in Brian's of B Jankowski J a and KO w xk i13 at gmail.com and words that.
Howard: What's that thirteen main was worth another teen.
Brian: That was my number in college lucky number 13.
Howard: Right on and then on Instagram you're what are you on Instagram.
Brian: It's at dr. So dr and then brian Jankowski so dr bri a and j NK o WS k i and they can reach out you can do private message with that or you can just write on one of my my posts either way and i'll get back to you and that's for any questions with dental school or that smile virtual if anybody has questions feel free to reach out.
Howard: So on your student loan and debtor is one of your first thoughts to refinance it or how those um how do those look or any thoughts on that.
Brian: My plan is to be pretty aggressive and i talked about this on my other podcast with mark kostas and I plan on being aggressive my plan is to have that payoff in five years so yeah.
Howard: The tough thing that to make realize the is the young kids don't figure out is the opportunity cost so they'll go buy a house where they own the land and building but they don't own an office and the office can make you a ton of money in that house is a money pit they they don't blink of buying a car but they won't pay that money on continued education or equipment or a CB CT so it's just it's just a matter of shifting money from consumption and you don't use other people's money and pay interest on it for consumption you use other people's money for leverage to own a business so like I could have gone to mcdonald's and worked 40 hours a week for ten years and say that my money went to dental school but then when I got your note should I make a hundred dollars an hour so it's really smart to borrow other people's money go to dental school now so I can pay that back at $100 an hour income instead of saving up for ten and you look at these dentists and I mean it's like my gosh it's like do they think they're a rock star I mean do there's an album I don't know about and you look at their house and you're like dude you're three years out of school and then and then you say okay you're in town let's go drive by your mom and dad's house your dad's worked 40 hours he lives this dorky house in Mesa and he dried some old car and you're a better student with $300,000 in debt you got a $350,000 brand-new house you're driving a fancy car your wife's driving a fancy car and then they want to know you know what what they're gonna do so it's just a matter of I'm investing all your money and forget free and and I'm gonna say something that's that's totally inappropriate and and sounds bad on every level but you know the foreign-born dentists get it they come out of school and five years later they have no debt and the rest are life they're putting money in a bank account where they're making a nickel off each dollar for their life if you're born in America you're under these guys I just reminded Dennis of a few days ago 60 years old just bought a new home on a 30-year mortgage it's like it's like so you're gonna be 90 someday right I mean really I mean so it's just it's just you if you're always paying a nickel on every dollar you spend from other people's money make sure it's an investment that's gonna grow and pay all that back so it's just it's just living below your means do you and your wife talk about living below your means I mean is that something you guys think about a lot or are you more like fake it till you make a wings finding out you know you're gonna make it later.
Brian: We have talked about it a lot living below our means and that's always been the thought process with everything I think that's one part that gets hard with with some students because you you know you hear what a dentist can do financially so you assume they're right out of dental school that that's where you should be but it's just not the truce because you have all those loans and if you want to buy a house or anything like that you're moving expenses this that and the other so we've talked about that a lot and I mean we still have her car from 2003 or a little she's like what I called this but it's a little Toyota hoopty and we need still drive that everywhere so I mean we live below our means and that's what you got to do.
Howard: Yeah though that is just the best advice I mean why would you want to go out what and then the other thing to do is it's a catch asons tell so they're all burned down their fry so what are they gonna do and it's vacation they're gonna go to Hawaii and drop ten grand well now you're gonna be even more stressed why didn't you go to the lake and go fishing for a dollar you know and and that night and I got kids I know a lot of people from these two dental schools in our backyard the one you go to in Mesa and the other one and I know them and I know their dad and I'm like well when you get out of school why don't you go live with your dad because I asked your dad if he'd let you move in and he and his dad said my god he'd love it and he's like I don't want to live with my dad okay yeah 400 students and you just went and bought a 350 thousand dollar house oh well that's gonna be a good investment really can you have Warren Buffett sign off on that I'm pretty sure you know just libel Oh your mains move back in with your parents you don't need all the new car and then someday when you can buy all that stuff in cash then you're gonna find out a new deal that when you do have the cash like my Lexus is 2004 every time I take it to the dealer for an oil change rather like well if you give me your car and a hundred thousand will put you in a 2019 one it's like when you die I have a hundred thousand in cash and I don't want to give it to you my my Lexus white and what I also love that is my five grandchildren I don't care if they're lighting firecrackers in the backseat I mean III don't care what they're doing in my car I don't care if anybody dings it it's free it works it's a Lexus in fact Mike it's got 160,000 miles on it I live three miles from work my goal is to get 250,000 on it.
Brian: Yeah whatever gets you from A to B.
Howard: Yeah I mean uh so uh I can't believe we went over an hour i'll tell you one less for anything as I'm 32 years of dentist all those young bright-eyed bushy-tailed NS that came by the office and when to press the flesh or whatever they were a different breed of cat completely and they all crushed it they all did it the people that are hungry I mean I when you're 56 you can smell the energy in the youth and the ones that came by and and all these people you talk to I mean I would bet my house that you will absolutely crush it I mean it's it's just an attitude it's your energy it's your commitment it's unconditional responsibility and just go out there I mean if you knock out a door and it doesn't open keep knocking or break it down I mean you'll just do it.
Brian: Thank you I appreciate that thank you so much.
Howard: Last takeaway what did you learn from being an amazing athlete what did you learn the most in being an athlete at Weber State that you're so glad you learned as an athlete that you'll be bringing to your dental office.
Brian: I think I think the accountability and integrity have been two of the things that have been so useful as well along with having a work ethic that you just you just have to get up and do it I was fortunate enough to be alongside a lot of coaches and players who have been very successful and just to learn some of the information from them as far as you know you don't have a choice if you're having a bad day outside of athletics it doesn't matter you still got to show up and if you don't perform and you're nobody so it was it was a good experience to just kind of learn to just get going and I had a lot of that foundational from my my family growing up and things like that but I think sports really pushed it and it forced it because if you don't get up and do the work well then you don't have a scholarship anymore and you've done with school you know list goes on so I think that those things integrity accountability and work ethic have been three of the biggest things that i'll take away from that and that I learned.
Howard: And he said you can email on the be Jankowski 13 at gmail.com you can email me Howard at Dunn old town comm and you need to find a bunch of homies that are like that available accessible you can email you can call my gosh if you're the luckiest thing in my entire career in Phoenix is just having you know a dozen really good dental friends they were just always there for you to do anything for you that's what I love about dentistry any country you go to they're always in the top 5% years of education income but they're just so I mean when you choose to go into a profession that where people come in and pain and you do surgery on them with your hands all day on it's just a special class of people and you're lucky to be a part of this profession and go out there and meet them and you're gonna crush it and I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and good luck on Friday.
Brian: Thank you so much I really appreciate you having me on the show and I appreciate your words.