Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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1172 Mark Battiato, Co-Founder & Owner of Growth Into Greatness Institute & Business Life Coach : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1172 Mark Battiato, Co-Founder & Owner of Growth Into Greatness Institute & Business Life Coach : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

4/12/2019 2:58:18 PM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 147
Recorded live at Townie Meeting 2019.

VIDEO - DUwHF #1172 - Mark Battiato


AUDIO - DUwHF #1172 - Mark Battiato

Mark graduated from Arizona State University with a B.S. in marketing in 1979. He started his own marketing company managing 60 employees nationwide. He then positioned with 3M Company for five years in the National Advertising Division and was the recipient of several awards for his sales and marketing performance throughout his tenure with 3M. He was recruited by The Center for Professional Development in 1992. While at The Center (CPD) for eight years, Mark analyzed over 300 dental practices in the Northwestern territory of the U.S. He helped to position dentists for a private care practice model.


Mark is now the CEO and Director of Practice Growth at The Growth Into Greatness Institute, which he co-founded with Deb Castillo. While CEO, Mark's primary responsibility is to provide one-on-one coaching and practice development in areas of profitability, financial management and staff development. He also conducts small retreats for students engaged in the developmental process. Through his commitment to this work, Mark is passionate about helping others to achieve their own greatness, and to aspire to levels of growth and excellence they thought were never possible.


Howard: I am at Townie meeting 2019 with Mark Battiato

Mark: Yes

Howard: Did I say a right?

Mark: Perfecto perfecto

Howard: and my gosh is that is any chance that's Italian?

Mark: A little bit

Howard: a little bit

Mark: My mom always reminded me that I have French and Swiss Canadian to me as well so.

Howard: French and Canadian ingredient french-canadian Kobach wow that is a that is a...

Mark: Sicilian

Howard: Sicilian and I was looking at a map the other day there was a map of Italy, I think it was the year 1500 or 1600, Sicily was more than half of Italy at that time I mean Sicily went all the way up to Roma.

Mark: Yeah

Howard: and when you're our generation using cities a little island.

Mark: What do you mean our generation

Howard: Right now it's just an island but it used to be half of Italy.

Mark: I haven't gotten there yet that's my on my bucket list thing yeah and to get there.

Howard: My personal assistant is Sicilian

Mark: Nice

Howard: and her mother...

Mark: I bet she's very dedicated loyal

Howard: Oh yes and so we have a long history together here in Phoenix Arizona, Mike Schuester a legend in dentistry forever when I was at Creighton in dental school my assistant worked for him for six seven years then I graduated moved out to Phoenix my assistant Jan had worked for Mike Schuester for the whole time I was in college we the same age yeah and so for 30 years I got to here that's not how Mike Schuester did it or I would tell her something that's all what Mike Schuester say and I remember the first couple years out of school I'm like who is this Schuester guy and random but I so I owe so much to Mike Schuester.

Mark: So do I.

Howard: because you married his daughter.

Mark: I married one of his daughters.

Howard: You didn't marry all four?

Mark: No I don't think they'd want me.

Howard: Do they have laws against it or something. So talk about your journey how did so did your start with your journey in dentistry start with Mike Schuster's daughter?

Mark: I actually met her at the Arizona marathon race this is 25 years ago she was I had a booth there like here and I was promoting this health product and I did the relay she Christie my wife did the marathon and after the race Christie's mother mother we stared Joanne and she saw me behind the booth so she said I'm gonna fix up Christie cuz she was on the rebound I was a rebound guy because Christie just broke up with us or this guy broke up with her so as her mother was like I'll try to find someone else that I was the rebound and so Christie came over and she was beautiful and most important thing I noticed was her tights and that was it it's a year later we got married and I was working at 3M company prior to that I went to ASU graduated with a marketing degree which didn't mean anything cuz all the books now everything they look tight I got learned in marketing doesn't they don't really teach that anymore and I started my own company and I was like the e-myth within five years my company failed and I owed everybody. I remember I called my dad in Chicago that's where I grew up and uh my dad was a CPA and I said dad can you help me file Chapter 7 11 and 13 I knew the numbers but I didn't know what they meant and I remember there was a pause and he said Mark I'm not gonna help you file any of those you have to pay back everybody and you need to pay back to $25,000 that your mother and I lent you and he didn't say me because my dad surprisingly my dad was a tap and Italian but he I never heard him yell growing up and I found out later the reason why but it took me about seven years to pay all that $80,000 back. I remember going to consumer credit counseling here in Phoenix that was like the lowest ball my life because I couldn't pay my bills and all these creditors were calling me and then luckily I was about a week moving back probably a couple weeks say calling my parents to say can I move back home and Chicago that would have been the lowest thing for me to move back home now it's like can I stay with you forever you know kids my kids are still here twenties but I got a call from 3M a year later out of the blue and they said hey we have an office here in Scottsdale would you want to come in for an interview and I remember after that call I actually cried actually because I was so desperate and I didn't have any money I was living hand-to-mouth and I asked God I said could you help me on the interview because I'm a wreck and I remember going an interview and the second interview there 80 people were interviewed for one position and the district manager flew in from Chicago so I kind of kind of had to get it off a little bit but he was like man you roll all over the map Mark you have five different jobs in the last three years why would we hire you because we're gonna invest a lot of money in you and you're probably gonna leave in here and I didn't know what I was gonna say I mean I just I just looked at him and said hey gene his name was Jean I said well I guess you could look at it that way but I I look at it like I've been in five different companies I got to know a lot of different people met different personality types and I can relate to anybody and he kind of looked at me goes hmm that's an interesting answer hey and three days later I got a call and I got hired and so I was able to pay back all my debt because three unpaid for education and company car and then I met by my wife Christie at the marathon race and then my father-in-law Michael Schuster you know had the Center for professional development here.

Howard: So you started a company and it failed what was that company that failed.

Mark: Health concepts of America was a direct sales marketing company that we went I actually hired people wouldn't work today to go door-to-door we work with health clubs that we took the met we actually signed people up in their homes in the membership, so and an introductory membership so we so that way they'd go to the club and get signed up for a longer term. So I had 70 people working for me three offices in Atlanta at one time and I didn't know we'd suite up saturate the market so quickly so within six months everything collapsed and I owed everybody so anyway it all happened for a reason of it.

Howard: So then when you were hired by 3M they have like eight divisions Wims includes dentistry was at the dental division?

Mark: No actually back then they had out the outdoor advertising they had billboards at one time 3m on billboards all across the country.

Howard: Really

Mark: So I got the it was very fascinating to learn about all the advertising vehicles radio newspaper.

Howard: So then you worked for 3M five years.

Mark: Yeah, five years.

Howard: Then you married Schuster...

Mark: Then I met her at the marathon race and then I actually asked to be interviewed at the center but I never got a call.

Howard: The center

Mark: My father-in-law's company.

Howard: Well tell them the name of it.

Mark: It was called The Center for professional development that in Scottsdale.

Howard: Which he ran for what 50 years?

Mark: He started at night I think it's 1976 and he just retired last year.

Howard: So is the center so he just retired

Mark: Yeah

Howard: So he sold it?

Mark: He sold it to another doctor I believe.

Howard: For the dental office or for the education?

Mark: For the education so I don't I don't know what's going on with that I but I reside I worked there for eight years and then my partner Deb Castillo worked there at the center.

Howard: So Mike Schuster sold the center for professional development to another guy?

Mark: Yes

Howard: A dentist?

Mark: Yes last year.

Howard: but you don't know his name?

Mark: Yes it's Mike Edwards

Howard: Mike Edwards and then you and your wife Schuster's daughter Christie.

Mark: Yes

Howard: Started a company called The Gig.

Mark: Well I started that company with Deb Castillo growth into  greatness Institute I got that name from mentor of mine named Bill Bailey always coined the term growth into  greatness.

Howard: Big shout out to Deb Castillo that was actually my classmate UMKC dental school who's a dentist Albuquerque New Mexico but this isn't that Deb Castillo.

Mark: No

Howard: So we're learning today there are two Deb Castillos.

Mark: We just talked to, we just had a conference call this morning at 6:15 morning with a Albuquerque dentist Gary Sanchez who you would love to interview he has the Y Institute he took Simon senex book and spent the last ten years how to integrate that into your life.

Howard: Is he a dentist?

Mark: Yeah he's a dentist and he's worked with Fortune 500 companies now he speaks all over.

Howard: Oh my god

Mark: Gary Sanchez his brother and him are dentists in Albuquerque unbelievable, his work.

Howard: Will you email me his info, my email is by the way is Howard in dentaltown.com So then when Mike sold so when did you start the growth into greatness Institute what do you call the gig Institute?

Mark: The website is greatnessinstitute.com we started that 20 years ago and we have a team of people. We only work with 12 practices and year the reason why is when we first started I kind of took the model my father-in-law had were group trainings fly people in with their teams and go through a one-year entrepreneurial process a systems organization develop health center dentistry overhead control profitability versus production that was the whole thing with my father-in-law was all profitability based that's why I still don't like a lot of consulting today because it's still production production production but his model was profitability, health centered and then my partner worked in the support department Deb and so we started 20 years ago and after 9/11 happened we were doing group trainings in Seattle and Oregon because I moved to Oregon, Medford Oregon for 17 years and when 9/11 hit there was a doctor in Ohio we said Mark I'll get on a plane but my my teams not getting out as a lot of play and I'm like okay I understand I was stranded for three days and he said would you come and do the training just with our team we've never done that before one on one I called Deb and she said she'd go well after four days with that one team Deb called me and she said Mark I'm not doing group trainings anymore and I'm like what'd he mean she goes she goes I got done in four days with this one team that it takes six months with group trainings but I'm like well Deb that's how we make our money we make more money when we do trainings and she goes I don't care I'm not doing it anymore and I'm like okay it took us two years to get off group trainings and now we just do one-on-one individualized coaching and we just brought a dentist a full-time dentist Dr. Kevin Kwiecien on our team who he interviewed a few months ago and he taught at Spear and been fabulous. So now we have a doctor that works with the back office and we have Deb that works with the front office you know systems organization development how to stay in a health centered practice model so that's been pretty cool.

Howard: Well and so you only be twelve practices a year it was on board like one new office each month for 12 months a year or do you onboard them all?

Mark: We finally about three years ago we finally it took us so long to try to get to this point but we work with about the first of the year we work with eight practices up till May and then we take on two or three after September October stop right then because then we go back to those practices again in this summer. So we want to we spend us so much time with these practices that we if we took more we couldn't serve them.

Howard: Its' not a game of volume with you.

Mark: No it and that's the key to our work and people to ask this to take on more clients and we're just not going to do it.

Howard: So how much money does this cost, this is Dentistry Uncensored.

Mark: What did Dr. Pankey say, don't quote a fee before an unsold case so I think I mean it's not like I couldn't but every practice is a little different because if they have a partner or multiple practice and the fees a little bit different but we do have a 14 month program our philosophy has been for a long time after 14 months we don't want you paying us anymore we I know consultants that charge people two thousand, fifteen hundred, three thousand a month for years I'm like we're like why do you have to keep paying this consult you should own it and our old philosophy has been like we want to give you the whole flywheel all the systems monitor get a new playbook in place have everything documented have your team understand what overhead percentages are understand profitability and by the end of 14 months its you'll own it we stand behind our feet whatever it is and we'll stick with it until we get it back but it's you know we're pretty good at getting results in a indoctrinating you know the model and the systems in place.

Howard: Okay and the website is I just had it I don't know why it didn't show of my recent searches.

Mark: www.greatnessinstitute.com it's just one word greatness Institute com yeah, there's some interviews on there some information and Dr. Kwiecien on there my partner Deb some of the doctors we've worked with what our process is and if someone's really interested Howard I mean because we only work with 12 years I'm the one that would go out and do a business financial analysis and it doesn't commit the doctor to work with us we have a fee of fifteen hundred dollars for that but I waive that fee and I just say look if you want me to come out and spend five hours with you just pay for my travel we'll look at all your numbers I'll get your profit and loss statement I'll do a full exam diagnosis like you do with a patient look in your mouth look in the practice look at everything that's going on the hygiene department and then give you a whole report and then from there we can say okay it's like a SWOT analysis and then then from there we can look at okay here's your opportunities threats possibilities here's what we think we can do based on the wherever you out in your career sometimes that work Deb and Kevin are going out to Florida next week to work with a doctor who's 65 that's a totally different plan than a young doctor we're just starting you know that's just trying to get on board new team members. So every doctor's a little bit different we work with specialists I'd say pareo and oral surgery we've about 70 percent or thirty percent out of the twelve about two or three years specialist the rest are general restorative dentists mostly solo some partnerships but yeah it's a pretty comprehend it's a holistic model that we learned from my father-in-law, we know over 20 years we've tweaked our own processes into it but it's very holistic it engages the whole team and it gets them to think entrepreneurial with the doctor just like some of the stuff you were talking about yesterday and your intro you know the team understanding you know how many calls are coming in how tracking analytics are all critical that the team understands how the analytics and the numbers play a role when measured gets done like he said in that you know.

Howard: Well I'm a huge supporter of dental practice consultants because I see all these dentists jumping around into starting to place implants or CAD CAM or you know these occlusion cam all these different things and their house isn't in order. They don't they don't I mean they do $1.00 in the dentistry they don't even know if they made a dime they don't know if they made a dime after tax a you know I always think get poised for growth and you've got to get your business I'm a dentist but I have an MBA and I look at him my career you know I practice dentistry ten years where I got my MBA and that was the inflection point once I got my MBA understood everything is just just skyrocket but on his website the greatness Institute dot-com greatness Institute com. He says growth into greatness Institute philosophy centers on seven strategies for practice development and personal growth. Number one a consistent plan for setting rearranging evaluating strengthening the purpose of your goals, number two a detailed management plan for present resources, three a detailed plan for the use of your time four, a consistent plan for the gathering of knowledge 5, a consistent association with people who have a common interest in progress success ideas and philosophy 6, a consistent plan for developing all your skills 7, lifestyle a consistent plan for figuring ways to live uniquely how to be happy with what you have while pursuing what you want but in my 31 years everybody that I thought built a successful office my success I mean they were happy they weren't burned out they they were meaning their goals they they're their expectations from going into this profession where I'm at it's not a question if they use a consultant it's like which three did you use or which four did you use. I mean even my friends that are 60 are saying you know they're saying well you do recommend freakazoid I'll say I'll give him like three names you know I use all three of those words you know. So it's a lifelong journey of trying to get their house in order.

Mark: and it's interesting you say that because yesterday I had a dentist come up to me young dentist and I won't to say who he is but he he's buying two practices and it's like that's a lot mean so he was asking me what we did and he goes well I might try to do it on my own and I just kind of smile inside a little bit and I just said you know my father-in-law was 30 he had a heart attack he thought it was a heart attack and Dubuque Iowa it was an ulcer and he he said I can't keep practicing at his schedule on Sunday night get sick to his stomach how he had a run-and-gun and and that's when he decided to go to pankey Institute and get the cross of life and try to figure out a different way but I said to him you know my father-in-law at age 31 hired these consultants out of Canada called Cox and it was called the flight manual to success something like that and he worked with him for seven years I said you know what he paid back in the 70s thirty thousand dollars a year back then for consultants and that's a lot of money today still and I said but by the time he was 40 guess what he was a millionaire no because he got good mentoring good coaching and my other mentor Bill Bailey said the greatest discovery he made in his life when he was 44 is that he could ask for help he said Mark the greatest thing you can do is ask other people for help he goes when I did that finally my life change he said it took me five years to feel okay with about asking help internally but ask for help you know you got to get the good the right mentors right you got to get the right people because there's that there's a lot of coaches just like in the in our field dental consulting they're not they're not the best or not there's a lot of dentists you and I aren't great dentists. Well find the good ones like Jim Rohn my mentor said read books take courses hang around five people who know more than you. Like on my team all those people they know way more than me.

Howard: Yeah and I want to congratulate you for listening to this podcast because you know all readers or leaders that was my generation when you can only find this stuff on books now you can find great information podcasts online CE's things like that but you're listening to a dental podcast as opposed to seeing what Kim Kardashian's wearing on TMZ or you know or somthing like that and what the other thing you said so important is you know your summation of your five best friends so in your you know that's in our family but in your profession don't hang out with four people that are telling you that dentistry's stupid the golden years are over you're just gonna drag you down the mothers there's ten thousand dentists in America that love it making bank doing great work you know all that guy stuff. So you consider yourself a you see a business life coach?

Mark: Right

Howard: and then your partner Deb Castillo she's a director of training. So what do you do what does Deb do what does Kevin do? I mean you got all these little roles so what do you do?

Mark: Well my role is pretty similar to what I do with my father-in-law Dr. Schuster at the business school is I would go out.

Howard: So he's your father-in-law do you still have to call him Dr. Schuster? What do you call him when you're drinking beer, eating?

Mark: He's coming over Sunday, I'll give him a hug and call him Mike.

Howard: Well give him a hug for me and tell him thanks for training my assistant Jan for 7 years.

Mark: How come you're not like Mike, be like Mike.

Howard: No but we had Mike on the show, amazing guy.

Mark: No it wasn't for Mike I wouldn't be my father-in-law I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing I'm totally blessed he's a mentor a guide he pushed me, matter of fact I remember the first week I don't know exactly the words but the first week I was at the bit he gave me three books to read the e-myth by Michael Gerber entrepreneurial myth the seven Habits Highly Effective People and the richest man in Babylon and I remember like five...

Howard: Who wrote the richest man in Babylon?

Mark: Richard Clausen classic book but after the first four take five days I was there he came to my cubicle he goes hey how's it going on that e-myth book Mark and I wasn't a reader back then I didn't I didn't like the read and I'm like whoa I'm on like I'm on chapter three I guess and he's like what the hell man he goes you need to read this book that's why your business failed you need to understand what happened you know like okay you know but then I read that book I realized wow I didn't have systems I was good at the entrepreneurial role you know the visionary but I didn't have management systems organization and the truth is most of us are only one out of those roles right so we got to bring other people in to help us it's just like you said earlier good to great you know and that book good to great Jim Collins technology wasn't the thing that got most of the companies from good to great it was their leadership level 5 leadership at all that.

Howard: I know it dentists always think it's technology like you would never be sitting in a table with physicians and they'd be bragging or advertising about what kind of MRI machines are right or the ultrasound machines think it's it's the physicians never talking about technology ever ever ever ever dentists are says but we but podcasting is a youth behavior so a quarter send me an email Howard@dentaltown.com just tell me how old you are, what country you're from. A quarter of them are still in dental school all the rest are under 30 are you like what an old guy a week.

Mark: Yesterday in your introductory speech I never heard before I accept I heard similar but it really I think it inspired me a little bit when you said now they're getting out of school I think you said I actually took notes on you're meeting 273,000 or something like that dental school debt and but you compared it to like that's don't get freaked out because kids are gonna cost you 271 kid is gonna and two kids and said you know and then the other thing you said is because I had a doctor come up to me at the booth and said well Howard said that if you don't work with a consultant you'll make about seventy eight seven hundred eighty thousand a year production but if you do you will take about 1.2

Howard: Right

Mark: and he was kind of questioning whether that was true or not and I said well it's probably I've never heard that before actually but I said I bet that's the first time ever but I like it.

Howard: Every dentist I talk to you that's working with a consultant collects about 1.2 million and every dentist it's never using him solomon cuts about 780...

Mark: but you know it's interesting about that...

Howard: and that data widespread.

Mark: Is we've kept data for 19 years in the average practice when they start with us and doing 690 production we get them up to 820 and their overhead is sixty five point eight percent and then we get them down to 57 we have about an eight point four eight reduction in overhead so and it doesn't matter where they start this is another thing that consultants won't tell you after 20 years of doing this no matter where they start scratch start the highest doctor we had producing a solo was 2.3 and fresno great Dentist but we got about a hundred and fifty eight thousand or 138 thousand right around their production increase no matter where they started whether ever stretch or so was that wasn't the key was efficiency overhead any profitability.

Howard: and here's the other thing that they their brain cannot accept this information is those successful dentist so many of them don't place implants don't do Invisalign don't do snore guard they just it's just a bread-and-butter practice don't be like you know just crown and bridge fillings a recall simple endo and they're do 1.2 there 10 on 350 year and then the guy doing 780 think well I could never do that unless I had sleep apnea and place implants and did sinus lifts and those are all separate kind of like a restaurant imagine you had an Italian restaurant and it was going south and you thought the only thing that would save it was add beef stroganoff how many Italian restaurants were saved by adding the German dish beef stroganoff, no they if you can't make money in an Italian restaurant something's wrong with your business.

Mark: but you know what I did go to Sacramento Gulf California was there two weeks over the dentists and he took me to a Mexican restaurant that had Italian food it was actually pretty good I was shocked but my father-in-law you know I let I went to all his lectures for eight years around the country and he said this you know this line is always the same he said look would you rather have a million dollar practice at a 70% overhead you for this or a five hundred thousand or fifty percent overhead you make more money at a five and you not killing yourself you have a life you can have time with your kids and it's not working, you know.

Howard: and it's tough I'm 56 no I work two days last week and when you sit down and a patient has me as an MOD decomposit on two three four five that's work guys there's no shortcuts.

Mark: I just turned 58. Come on who's younger...

Howard: No thats alot of work, so what he just said was really sit down that hour and do four MOD composites or would you rather sit down and do two?

Mark: Yeah

Howard: I mean I'd rather do two.

Mark: So let me get back to your questions as I you and I could we could go all over the map but you said what do I do Deb and Kevin. So my role is if a doctors interested they hear about us I'll go out and do a financial audit look at all their numbers I just we just I just asked the doctor to pay for my travel I'm not trying to rip them off it's like let me just get in and see what's going on look at I'll spend five hours with you we'll go over all the data look at all your numbers give you a report and from that if you're interested then we'll say okay if you want to work with Deb my partner for 19 years and Kevin they'll actually will schedule about 60 days we're collecting pre work more data blueprinting calls with the doctor and a team prior before we come out so we just don't show up hi we're here doing a seminar you know some of ours are informational personal development and coaching is transformational so it's not oh I heard a lecture for an hour good luck see ya so we spend Deb and Kevin spend four days that first time with the practice first day production SWAT analysis all day they're not to judge it but just hey see what's going on so you know how the skills are see how the appointments scheduled what are they saying how they bring it in patience what's going on with her insurance what's happening with the doctors case presentation how's he bringing in patients what's the hygienist doing how that how they treating the patients what's this hand off all that and then the second and third day we actually shut the practice down we do a mini retreat a starting for the doctor to shut the practice down for two days but we say you there's a saying retreat to advance it's just like here come to a retreat that Howard's doing Townie for two or three days retreat well take a break so you can go back recharge three fired-up and so we work with just that one team for two days and when you're focused with one team and you're working together you can get a lot done and then the fourth day implementation execution and then follow-up. So it's cool and you know you don't get buy-in unless the team trusts you and after spending four days with a team they start to see wow these guys are authentic there's integrity and new ideas. Remember Walt Disney said it's not your intellect it's the ideas and the imagination of what you can do that's going to bring things forward it's not like we have all this great knowledge we have a lot of knowledge but it's like here's some new ideas new information. You know we've been in hundreds of practices so every time Deb and Kevin leave a practice I always ask that hey what did you learn from that practice because there's always one or two systems there they're doing it like that is awesome let's bring the to another practice and helps somebody else and so you know my partner Deb is knowing she's not...

Howard: See that's another thing about consultants you just know your practice they're they know multiple practices every year and they're learning it's almost a machine learning. It's like now there's so many programs and just machine learned they say ok you're looking at accounting software what's the machine learn 20 different systems and that alone teaches you stuff. So I want to say this is this question is jaded because these are offices that are already reaching out for help one team needed consultants there already a league ahead.

Mark: Yeah

Howard: but when you go into that intro office the most important thing is HR what percent of these practices in your evaluation do you say okay we have a toxic employee that has to go or they already pass a level. When you've been doing this for years what percent of the team is good to go we can base out with this person and train them and even versus you get there and say holy moly this Amy Lu has got to go.

Mark: It's such an interesting question because last week Deb and Kevin we're at practice in Florida with a younger woman dentist and literally a week later the doctor emailed us from the training and they loved it the email hey our front office just gave our resident her resignation Thanks is like we think we were blaming you for ever they were just kidding but it was like we met it was it was like wow you know we didn't expect that you know and when I did my audits for my father-in-law I used to spend the whole day in the practice and I would interview every person there for about 45 minutes in a closed door and after about five years of doing that I remember so I was so burnt out I was exhausted when I left the practice because they would get behind those doors and they'd be ragging on the front off his people the hygenist would be upset with the doctor the doctor would be upset. All these internal things I'm like I'm not a psychologist here you know I'm just trying to get things to improve and after all that after 20 years I said I don't know like a doctor will come at Mark I don't know about this person you're gonna come out to my prep I don't know if she's the right I said you know I don't know either but we're gonna find out in the next 90 120 days and usually when Deb comes out in Kevin within that six-month period the people that are committed and want that practice to do well they're gonna stay in the ones that don't like this one last week they'll leave and they don't want to buy into the new culture of the new direction.

Howard: But what would you say the average size of the average office was and then in that three to six months how many would leave? Would you say the average obviously work with had five people including the dentist?

Mark: The average practice we work with has between five to twelve staff and I'd say

Howard: Plus the doctor or including the doctor?

Mark: Including the doctor 5.

Howard: and is it usually one doctor practice?

Mark: Yeah one doctor or two doctors yeah.

Howard: Okay one or two doctors because a majority one sometimes two or a half and a half.

Mark: I'd say most er one about two-year partnerships we're going out to one.

Howard: 80% are one.

Mark: Yeah we rolled out the Mideast Minnesota next month and there's three doctors.

Howard: Okay so but 80% were one doctor yeah and those one doctors on average would have raises?

Mark: Between four to eight staff.

Howard: 4 to 8 staff and after they do your program that 4 to 8 staff how many time how many employees would usually jump ship they weren't the right fit?

Mark: Usually maybe just one.

Howard: So there's one in every office?

Mark: Yeah yeah but sometimes they stay but usually one or two at the max.

Howard: Okay so this is again the people use consultants are a league about, they've already gone through so many journeys and now they're on this self-improvement and even those guys one member is still not right on the team. We're at the offseason now in the NFL and the draft is next week look how important the draft is in football and everybody's trying to get that special player I've been saying for 30 years that I don't care wheeling up five minute HR is everything, having the right people on the bus...

Mark: You know what amazing, this guy from Dr. Sanchez who start with why the Simon's the next book you know what we just learned a lot from his call this morning so in that I retreat and in May we're gonna spend three days with the why stuff and he said that why stuff hasn't totally changed his culture with this team because now he knows the why of every person in his office every team members got a different why and he said you understand there why what motivates them then you can you can you can have a phenomenal team and so we're gonna start looking at that integrating that into our work because the why into your brand and the whys what you do and what is your why you people say like you dr. Sandra is saying everybody wants to know what their passion is well if you until you understand what your why is you're not gonna find your passion you're gonna be all over the map and so it's really fascinating the work and especially today because you know it's definitely a lot harder to run a dental business than it was in the 70s I mean I'm not saying it wasn't hard that then but with insurance continue to take away profit you know demos like you the DSO is like you talked about yesterday what do they stay or not but there's a lot more competition and I think it's good I think it's healthy that the doctors are more serious like when we work with them we're probably their third or fourth consultant you know and they're like well how is some of them are like oh gosh how come they're kind of beat themselves up how come I haven't figured it out yet no it's like I'm like after you work with growth and the greatness if you work with us keep looking keep bringing in other people bringing other people that know more than you you know and keep grow and learning.

Howard: but back to the dental kindergarten you mentioned that your father-in-law first thing you did is lay down three books, go through the learning lessons of those here but the first one was the e-myth.

Mark: Well you know the e-myth and I some admits it's interesting about a lot of people still haven't read that book yet but...

Howard: Well they're young they're under 30.

Mark: The e-myth talks about there's three when you start a business you're three people you have to be three people to run a bit you're the entrepreneur who's visionary the manager whose lives in the past he's data numbers and then the technician who lives present like what's on the books today who do I need to do. So when you start a business you don't realize why I need to be all three of those and most of the time you're only one and Gerber's always said you know the most successful practices take time to work on them instead of him that was this whole thing but the technician so busy doing it doing it doing it do it that's why. It's like why isn't there three or four hundred dentists here five six hundred thousand oh I can't take time out well yeah you need to learn be with around other people like I always tell my kids show me your friends I'll show you your future you know if you're hanging around with you know some people smoking pot and that's your future if that's okay with you okay cool but retreat to advance get around people who know more and continue to grow. So I don't know what the question was.

Howard: Summarizing the  e-myth.

Mark: Oh so yeah work harder on the business than you do in it so you have to if you're gonna really take that embrace that philosophy then you have to have many retreats which I heard somebody said today that they oh yeah Dr. Sanchez said I for two years I took a half a day every month in team meetings a half a day he worked with his team for two years on getting better. Most dentists won't even take it an hour a month and because it's either bitch sessions they're complaining they're whining or what do I talk about what do we work on and even like a new book when we when we introduce new books of the practice I know that the team's not gonna read all those books I think I told dr. don't buy this book for all your team members don't spend $150 I just buy one and then have each person read one chapter and then that person who reads a chapter they debriefed it for five minutes and then your next person reads a chapter so everybody's community learning everybody is trying to get better everybody's trying to improving. You know I think Kevin talked about that in your meeting about you know it's a team centered practice now I used to be doctor centered you know yes doctor in the 70s and that moved from a business centered model with corporation it's all about the business and a move to a patient centered practice model or it's all about the patient which sounds great and now but now our focus is team, team centered practice if your team is doing well they're happy they're healthy they're understanding emotional intelligence they're understanding how to work they've been the patient's get healthy. You know so the team like you know if you've got a great team your life who's pretty nice you know if you've got a great wife and you're working together your team you know it's not perfect you know.

Howard: and look at my failures my business is 31 years old but my five key management team people all been there 20. So 10 years I was chasing the FAGD the MAGD the diplomat of the international congress and I was learning the technical side right but it took about 10 years for I realize my god it's just all who's the people on the bus and I had this one character flaw that my dad had to that no matter what this person had done no matter how many times he'd fall down live under bridge in a box you always saw the best side of them and just wanna oh I can fix you I'd like to inspire you in 10 years of sticking your tongue in a light socket before you thought maybe that person should be responsible for their success and because I would like try to motivate them and I'm like well maybe if I took my accrued my team on a cruise yeah it all like each other I don't like each other because three talks to be writer when they're batshit crazy and so I spent 10 years trying to fix team members before I realized I'm gonna get people that are already fixed. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna try I mean why should I motivate you when it's easier if I hire an internally motivated person they're motivated if I find an internally person who's not motivated I can't motivate you with bonuses and cruises it's like just like happiness I can't make you happy happiness is an inside job so my dad spent his whole life yeah trying to motivate unmotivated people and it took me 10 years to realize now my dad's a great guy he's a great fun guy but it's so the only thing that really works is to find it internally motivated person and someone who they're why they're into it.

Mark: You know one book that I read two years ago was does by Bob Foff it's not like a business book but the first quote the book really helped my wife and I in our marriage we've been married 25 years and your ups and downs like anything but the first thing he says is I've long is this changed his life he said I have long stopped trying to fix people I just want to be with them now and my wife and I talked about that because you know we tried to fix each other you know it's like saying with a doctor trying to just said try not to fix it doesn't work and now as a leader like Maxwell talks about is his book here the leaders job is to paint a picture of the vision that maybes not that the people would go wouldn't go on their own the leaders said to be the influence or the inspirer and we don't come in and try to take that role we want to empower the team to be their own leaders like the book advantage by Patrick Lencioni it's a big book now he's written a lot of books my partner Deb got certified in the training, his whole thing in organization it's all organizational health and he said the key is peer to peer accountability that's where you get the most results that when the peer when your team is accountable each other not to you the doctor they're accountable to each other and that's how you get the best.

Howard: You know that's how the military does it in a strange way is their life and death so let's say Buster messes up the the your general isn't gonna punish Buster he punishes the other seven guys Oh Buster decided to sleep in or he didn't come home on time right so you other seven all do 100 pushups and then go clean toilets so now I don't have to say anything to Buster, his 7 best friends on his squad...

Mark: I'll give you the perfect example of peer to peer accountability from Dr. Peter Fay a great prosthodontist and friend of mine in Maui it's good to have friends in Maui and he's got a house that has, if you ever want to visit him he's got a he's got a another house next to him that you can stay.

Howard: This is dr. Peter Fay?

Mark: Yeah you need to definitely get him on a podcast, awesome guy but he when he started he had doing about a million two back twenty years ago which was pretty good back then he had nine women nineteen members and after four years he went from nine staff to eight seven six five four three, three women doing the same one point two as nine where you need him fire him they left because the babies transferred but every time now listen this would never happen every time a woman left the team member left he'd get him together in a morning huddle bringing breakfast and say look we lost Sally she was doing these eight things eight systems I can hire another woman take over or you guys know what the staff percentage is it's 24 percent labor you guys want to stay within that because if I hire another person that's gonna go up but if you take over a roles guess what I can share that percentage would cease that are left and guess what all those women did they always said will take it on and so now those three women you think they'll ever leave him though they're working three days a week doing the same production just as profitable.

Howard: What do you think they're making each of those?

Mark: I don't know I but I think organizational efficiency and one of the things that you read in my about the seven things strategies time now we shift it from time now it's all about energy management it's like you and I'm 58 you just don't have the energy like to try to lose 10 pounds I'm trying to lose like 50 more pounds I freaking killing myself you know it's just like but it's all about a team it's all about energy now.

Howard: See it's all about attitude I'm committed to obesity, im waiting for the pill and Im going to get my six pack back.

Mark: Anyway but it's all about energy management and you need your team focused on the flywheel and everybody working together energy then people say well how can you work seven to two and be done and be more profitable everybody's focused everybody's bringing good energy good attitude whatever you it's it's...

Howard: Well it was I'm I've seen so much data Rick Kirchner who has 300 Comfort Dentals was the first guy that was showing me clear data 30 years ago that when a dentist works for six hour shifts they hit each one of those shifts ready to go they bust it out for six hours four days a week but when you sit there and say no not six hours but let's say five eight hour days. Well if I have to go run a hundred yards I can sprint but if you say I got to do a marathon I'm just gonna take off slow and he said they spend the same amount of energy exactly but when you have an office for to double your availability when he has a six hour shift you come in and work six to two yeah or six a six to noon yeah and then your partner comes and works at noon to six with his own staff but anyway he was showing that for six hour days they actually produced more exactly and by the time you have to work in fact humans laughter by the time you have to work five and a half days a week I mean you're just you're walking to work with a walker everything you're so slow yeah good your pace yourself.

Mark: You just had a consultant here I listened to this morning great lady Heidi Mount.

Howard: Heidi mount is awesome yeah there was only her second lecture yeah and I hope they taped it.

Mark: She did a great job and she her whole thing is I can I can get five hundred dollars a day more in profitability in your practice so looking at your schedule because she had one doctor she said called her one time he's freaking I gotta move my practice because they want double the rent and so she'll hold on a second I gotta get me out by Monday well don't you have patients go to yeah but I can't afford double the rent well she looked at his schedule and she said hold on here I get I can definitely get more out of this schedule and that day they did forty six hundred dollars more you know and it's just like I guess I can stay here I can afford it you know. So there's always you know a better way like Pete Dawson's new book there's always a better way I'm ending all of that thirty years old...

Howard: How's Pete doing?

Mark: Actually Kevin Kwiecien was with them at Dawson and to teaching a couple months ago and he gave him the book it just came out and you know he said his health problems he's night or something.

Howard: but I mean his wife just passed away.

Mark: Yes that's hard but his new book I would that's a great book his story and I didn't know this but he claims in his book that he started block scheduling he invented that and he was so systematic.

Howard: Peter Dawson?

Mark: Yeah, Peter Dawson.

Howard: He has his new book

Mark: Yeah

Howard: What's his new book?

Mark: It's called a better way

Howard: A better way yeah and when did it come out?

Mark: Like three months ago great oh I have it at my booth if you...

Howard: No email Peter and tell him to come back on the show you were the most viewed podcast idea I think I mean I'm on YouTube I mean thank you for subscribing on the YouTube channel we just passed 10,000 subscribers I love reading the comments and the deal gives us a lot of feedback.

Mark: It was great to read his book because he says in his book he talked he says I had a systems analyst come in to look at every single system technically and business-wise to improve it even if it was 1% like Kaizen it even 1% improvement doesn't matter but he said I didn't do this on my own you know. I found people who were smarter than me to help me run my business better and get it more efficient.

Howard: So Pete's book is a better way?

Mark: Yeah I have a picture of a map but I have his booked on my booth if you want to take a picture.

Howard: Is it on Amazon?

Mark: Yes yep if you put Peter Dawson Dr. Peter I think it's a better it's not it may be a better way or a better way to live or something like that yes.

Howard: So I want to go back to Peter Fay.

Mark: Yeah

Howard: He works with case presentation

Mark: Yeah he taught at Panky for many years.

Howard: but how do you but I know my homies they'll tell you I don't like to sell I think I didn't great years of school to be a Salesman and they don't even want to hear about case presentation because they don't like it.

Mark: Co discovery treatment whatever

Howard: So what is Peter Fay and tell Peter Fay I want to podcast him about this but what is he telling these people about case presentation?

Mark: Well you know he goes through he's videotaped all his consults for over 20 years he had a camera.

Howard: Hidden cameras?

Mark: Yeah well he told patients every you know he said can videotape do you know why he just thought that videotape because I'm gonna go back and review this and I want to make sure I get this right for you so patiently no he only had a few that said no but most.

Howard: Well they do it on all the phone calls this call may be recorded for training purposes.

Mark: I guess two things a couple things I guess I'll go back to Peter Fay. I remember looking up the word sell in the dictionary one time when I was kind of shocked at the definition you want if you ever look up words selling it says to speak your core values. I told dentists I said don't be so worked up about selling dentistry if you believe in what you're doing share your core values and tell people what you do, it's good you know so don't think of it as I got a sell sell sell sell sell you know what's share your core values and beliefs and Peter Fey and Doug Santos and 12th Alvey they've all gone through all the hardships of learning how to sit down and talk about you know and then you talk about money well Peter always said I'm not gonna defer money to my assistant or I'm gonna talk money I want to get I want to look the patient in the eye and say it's gonna be 18,000 and how do you feel about these you have a budget well what can I do to help you and if he wants to be the one to discuss money because in the beginning he was afraid to talk about big cases and money and it's very intimidating and now he's finally comfortable it took him a long time but you know presenting cases and talking about the money I mean that's part of the work we do and sitting down with patients it's all you know everybody you know it's...

Howard: Well it's so ridiculous than the average American between 16 and 76 flow by 13 new cars and the median average price of a new car in 2018 according to USA Today and the Blue Book value thing is $33,000 and 95% of all dentists over their entire career not presenting one $33,000 case which means that the dentist believes it's more important for you to have a new Toyota every five years your whole life than have an amazingly fixed up teeth and then you look at that age at age 64 in America 10 percent have zero teeth and another ten percent are missing more than half and then at 74 20 percent have no teeth times to another twenty seven missing half and the dentists are like oh yeah we're all good with that because they all got a new Toyota every five years means 16 to 76 it's like dude that your values coming through. I mean I think the engineers should be clapping about the cars not the dentist the dentist can't sit there and aim a goal said I rather at 60 I rather at 74 you had all your teeth and maybe you only got a new car instead of every five years instead of 13 new cars yeah maybe only got 10 like I got a lot of money my cards at 2004 its 2019. So how come I have a 16 year old car cuz I value a lot of stuff every time I take my car into Lexus they say well you know if you gave me your car and a check for 98 grand you'd walk out with a new car and I say well that's true but I'm thinking of all the things I'd rather do with 98 grand and upgrade a perfectly functional SUV 450 that goes anywhere I want I mean I don't get it.

Mark: Well when you were you have got Kevin Kwiecien on your podcast as I've been watching on loop in here. Kevin was talking about that patients don't know what health is because the doctor never explained him what a truly healthy mouth is and unless you actually show this is what your mouth could be a vision of a healthy mouth and they can't even move towards that and I remember one doctor in Vegas Jeff who came to our treatment planning and he would only spend 15 minutes with a patient that's kind of the typical thing what do you see billing statement codes and they get a statement they walk out there's no what's the purpose what's the why behind it where's the like my father in law first question they always ask a patient is how long do you want to keep your teeth I remember him asking me that I kind of laugh of course the rest of my life it's like he goes well what's your plan Mark I don't like putting a plan because was any dentist put a plan together to keep your teeth the rest of your life and I said well we've had five dentists he goes well do you want a plan and he goes because I know this is the key I say the key I know you want no dentistry I'm like I don't think he said no you don't want to pay me either you don't want to come see me and I'm like you too right he goes would you want a plan that you could save a lot of money and only see me a few times I'm like sounds good to me but no then nobody put a plan together for me and just like today Kevin's gonna present that Dr. Kwiecien going to present that, a health centered plan and what doctors come to our retreat they learn about putting a long-term a health plan together and one doctor in Vegas came to our treat I remember a week later he called me goes mark he goes I had a patient a woman like 58 she needed a 19000 I never presented a treatment plan for 19,000 and I spent like an hour with her I went over everything and she went to the front I didn't know what happened I'll hour later my front office manager came in he got a check for 19,000 and he texted me Jakie goes he's our practice for seven years never had a case like that and I'm like it's about it's not even about the money it's about hey now you're gonna get that woman healthy that's a good thing.

Howard: and what I dont understand is when you talk to him and say what would you think if you woke up tomorrow and all your teeth fell out I mean they're like I'm like what would your day be like and they go I would cry I wouldn't go to work I had to be sick to my stomach I'd say yeah and then I say well what if you woke up tomorrow and all your teeth fell out and all your hair fell out your as bald as me with no teeth and at that point almost all women choose suicide. They go if I woke up and had better hair with no tooth I was like okay. So if all the women say if they woke up tomorrow and all their teeth fell out there'd be a nightmare beyond comprehension and they would cry and cry exactly and if their hair fell out with your teeth they'd kill themselves then how come all the people in your small town in Oklahoma all or have bought in three or four new f-150 trucks your lifetime and 10% will have no teeth of sixty four twenty percent of no teeth of seventy four times two missing out where's the big disconnect I think it's on the dentist's side.

Mark: I don't want to steal Peter Fay's Story but he could probably tell you this but I've remember a couple years ago we had a patient it was 74 woman and she needed about 35 to 40 thousand fewer miles as he calls him train wrecks he works out train wrecks and she needed thirty five forty thousand she said I'm 74 I'm not gonna live that long you know and you've heard this before and Peter's like well that's true you may not live that much longer and you don't know what's going on when there's 74 like dude do the kids want that money and they're gonna tell their mother grandmother and money you don't need thirty I bet money's mine my inheritance you don't spend it with a doc and Peter said we could live to your 90 95 he could she came back the second week and he said there look I know this is a lot of money but let me ask you he goes let me ask you a question he said what if you get all this dentistry done you spend thirty eight thousand with me you give me the check a week later you write me a beautiful I love my mouth I'm chewing better now I love my food I'm able to kiss you know whatever I'm I just feel so good about myself and then he says to her and then but a week later you die are you gonna care that you spend thirty eight thousand dollars with me and she looked at if she said you're right I'm not let's do the dentistry. I mean sometimes you just gotta say some crazy.

Howard: We live in Arizona, there are 50 states we have the only state where the most common broken bone is different than the other states are you aware of this?

Mark: Most common broken bone, no I'm not.

Howard: Okay I'm gonna really go back I know what I'm talking about it was an actually it was an orthopedic surgeon in New Mexico that when they laid out all the Neanderthal cro-magnon peaking man you know you only have so many complete fossils there were a lot of fractures and their were a lot of people didn't know what all those fractions were from an orthopedic surgeon in New Mexico's I want to inform the world he goes my gosh I looked at the ratio of broken bones those are rodeo clowns and that was the first insight where it was a perfect fingerprint match of the clavicles of zygomatic arch whole nine yards and those were men that were around Bulls during bull riding in a rodeo and that's when people realize that caveman wasn't throwing a spear and dropping a wildebeest they were running that thing with a spear they were holding on to that spare and they were getting kicked in the face it was a kicking big bowl and that fracture rate was the same and so they have orthopedic surgeons have the fracture rates of what bones should all be broken and you're saying what is that to do with what he's saying the number one broken bone in Arizona unlike the other 49 states is a rib because all these people retire down Arizona because of the climate and they're having sex at 70 80 90 years old and Mama's grandma's rib is more likely to break than anything else because...

Mark: How would I know it come to sex in this talk.

Howard: Well what are the three main things eating drinking reproducing offspring so just the reasoning about it is because when I got out of dental kindergarten at 25 my biggest diagnostic treatment planning error of my entire career was well I'm not gonna tell an 85 year old Man he needs to do all this because he's gonna be dead next week yeah well five years later he wasn't dead and I really messed up on one guy because he had him he had these broken down teeth and he had gum disease and he had all this stuff gone he was like 92 and I just thought well I'm just doing him antibiotics or a mouth rinse or something like that and then like a year later got really infected then it was like endo and surgery he didn't I think he lived to be 99 and I was ready to not do treatment on him in 91 and it took you like 92 and it got a lot worse and then we did all this treatment and then he lives seven more years after that. So I mean we just knocked out though we just had guinnesses registered the longest living person alive today and she's got registered a week ago or something I forgot how old she was 114 or 117. So when you're telling 75, 75 is the new young so they have the money and they buy new cars they buy a new Buick they buy a new car.

Mark: It's just like Bon Barkley said you know my patients might not accept for my treatment plan for five years you know you present it and you just you present a full plan and you like my father in law said you can go as fast if you want with this market if you want to do over three years four years one year six months I'll work with you and so you but you present the vision you get people the hope, people need hope of what's possible and I was just thinking about because I don't try to run out of time but I have it on my website I have it at my desk at the booth here it's like I love John Wooden's stuff and his books and...

Howard: John Wooden the basketball coach?

Mark: Yeah an awesome guy awesome books.

Howard: What's school was he from?

Mark: UCLA and but one of his quotes

Howard: Oh UCLA anyone can get into that school, you just gotta pay, you just need a broker to get you in.

Mark: but one of his quotes two of them are it's what you learn after you know it all that counts and that's just a humbling quote I've told...

Howard: Say the quote again.

Mark: It's what you learn after you know it all that counts and that's a very humbling quote because we don't know everything we're never gonna know everything nobody is no man is an island like John Donne the poet and the other thing is he said is each day's a masterpiece and it's a little it's a gift each day is a gift and Jim Rohn my mentor always said the last thing I know seven principles in my website he that were from Jim Rohn and Jim Rohn said hey pursue be thankful for what you have while pursuing all that you want. So if you're not thankful and grateful then if you get more in life it's not gonna be better I don't even want to tell you about my cars in my house with my two kids and my wife the cars we've God through it making any happier you know I told my wife after 13 years we she wanted another diamond you know this may be personal it's like I got her one and then a week later we're in a fight and I said to her you know honey diamonds don't keep you together you know relationships do intimacy does getting deeper not trying to fix each other. Same with a team but let's you know when I was young growing up I didn't I never thought about this but my family's got that all families are dysfunctional including mine every team is dysfunctional it's like Scott picks as a road less traveled life is difficult once you accept that you can move forward it's like we all in this game together let's all try to be the best we can that's all support encourage each other try to get better and but it's usually gonna take one person to step out and say let's try to improve and hopefully it's the doctor sometimes it can be a team member ed but many team members say you know what if the doctors just not motivated and it's just like well maybe he just maybe you can you know maybe he just needs a little like the book halftime by Bob Buford her game plan moving from success to significance the second half your life he says can be better than the first set that guess hope to us but he but most people think the second half is gonna suck you know but he said the second half can be better hopefully you have deeper relationships you learn here you let things go you surrender more you're not this pissed-off driving on the road but someone cuts you off you know he just learned to let go and that's the great thing about a dental team because my father in law always call that you have a little dojo and you can think you spend more time with those people and into its her family and why not try try to create the best relationships you can and you know my father always said where can you go to work and build relationships see people's kids make good money have a great life and you know there's not many jobs locations that you can do that where you can build relationships and I think a lot of times then is forget you know what's your higher purpose in your work which your higher calling it's not just fixing teeth. You know I will always have to remind the dentist and that's in the team like you're just not answering calls when that person comes in you don't know what's that person's going through you might have just had a car at lost a daughter devorce and you just touch them say hey thanks for coming today you know and they're like oh you know they you just don't know and it's like you're you're you're touching people's lives every day what a beautiful gift you get every day, it's hard work yeah but it's good work awesome work you dude and it's a beautiful thing. You know I'm just blessed cuz my father-in-law was a dentist and I got into this my marry his daughter you know and if someone had said when I was 16 or 18 years all Mark your best friends and life are gonna be dentists that was a hope I do but it's just like what dentists they're great people there I love dentists. My boys are always telling me that they said dad all your friends they're so nice they're so fun. Well to be a dentist you got to read a lot of books and a lot of difference and they're always well read they're always smart they're they're a great group of guys and I just want to end on this is you know if you go on Shark Tank and you start talking about your exit strategy Mark Cuban's out, Mark Cuban's doesn't know why he should invest in this company when you already want to get out and we were talking on another podcast said you know so the greatest legends in dentistry Bob Ebson known den Matt and started Rembrandt toothpaste he'd he dieded to chair in his 80s, Jim Gladwell is 70 years old he has you know he still has 10 20 year plans with Glidewell and then I meet dentists all-time that are 40 or 50 and they're burned out they're fried they're packing away money in their 401k and they're already telling on dentaltown in their signature how many years they go to they retire it's like well why don't you sit there and instead of sitting or having wanting to retire by instead of 65 your goals to get out by 55 why don't you figure out why you want to get out why don't you fix that and my mentor that made me want to be a dentist why next to a neighbor he's Kenny Anderson he's been practicing 50 years probably why he gave me the fever. I mean half a century later he's still doing it in Wichita Kansas and so if you're burned out, you're fried, you don't why get and then I say well why don't you get a someone who just like a life personal business coach in dentistry and their whole career all they do is fix that you know that's I need to learn bone grafting or I need to find that the next amazon.com stock and buy a thousand shares and get lucky lightly like really that's your exit strategy to win the lottery in the stock market or or whatever whatever just you know get your house in order.

Mark: Someone said this and my father-in-law we cited the biggest investment in your practice it's not the new waterfall at the bigger building it's your people and best in your people change your life. You know your biggest asset your biggest is your people grow your people grow your life and the biggest that's the big in its they don't invest in the stock market not do that a real estate but if you invest in your own business and make it the better you'll make more than the stock market probably a real save even you know it's good like you said yesterday there's gonna be another hit so hopefully you got your practice solid you like my father-in-law call it recession proofing your business so that when it does hit again you're able to maintain at least survive and pay your people and you've got good relationships and it's gonna you're gonna be okay. You know in the golden years 55 to 70 I have met a doctor here he's 65 and I go that's what the golden your he goes what do you mean he goes that's when everybody trusts you so much that you know they just say yes you've been around so long and treatment plans have been around they say I'm ready doc I trust you let's go ahead and you know look but most dentists like you so they want to get out when they're 40 or 50 because they're burned out it's like if they would just get this piece they would like this is awesome this is great and nothing's perfect but it can be a great life of practice as you know.

Howard: and I met two practicing dentists so far there were 92 one was George Murray and St. Joe Missouri practicing 92 years old loved it and I'm LA met a dentist who survived Auschwitz in Poland and at 92 years old guess what he's at my seminar and guess what he was all excited about he just bought a CBCT and we've just got into placing implants.

Mark: Isn't that amazing when you meet people like that.

Howard: He was so excited I'm like oh my god you survived Auschwitz and now you're 92 and you got a CBCT and he thinks that CBCT was the coolest thing ever and it was so exciting oh my man his life an attitude or what. Thank you so much for coming on, were gonna say one last thing?

Mark: Well I just reminded me of Joseph Campbell's work the hero's journey and he said he inspired people inspires others and like that 92 you like walk away like grief go ahead just inspire you you know and that's hopefully that's kind of our work that keep inspiring.

Howard: So a 92 year old that survived Auschwitz still loves dentistry but you're 45 when you're burned out and want to quit and it's not you and there's nobody that can fix it this is a ghost so how do they contact you?

Mark: They can just email me a mark@greatnessinstitute.com or go to the website or just call me my phone numbers my cells 541-301-0831.

Howard: Say it again one more time.

Mark: 541-301-0831 even though that's an Oregon area code I live in Arizona now.

Howard: So it's Mark@greatnessinstitute.com Thanks for coming on the show and your other homies on the show to keep this going.

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