Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost.
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1131 Dr. Frank W. Wolf DDS of Dental Referral Expert : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1131 Dr. Frank W. Wolf DDS of Dental Referral Expert : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1/28/2019 11:12:28 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 350

Dental Referral Expert helping general dentists & specialists grow their practice by bringing a lifetime of referrals. Dr. Frank Wolf is a Referral Marketing expert. He’s the founder and creator of Royalty Referrals, dentistry's most comprehensive and effective Internal Marketing System that teaches dentists how to bring a lifetime of endless referrals to their practice. 

VIDEO - DUwHF #1131 - Frank Wolf


AUDIO - DUwHF #1131 - Frank Wolf

His talents have been praised by Larry King of CNN; Dr. Gordon Christensen (Clinicians Report); Jack Canfield (Best Selling author of The Success Principles & Chicken Soup for the Soul) and Joe Polish (Founder of The “New patients are the lifeblood of any dental practice; without them, your business will suffer. Too many dentists leave getting referrals to chance and by accident. What if you could generate a consistent influx of new referred patients month after month and eliminate your need to spend tons of money on external advertising or rely on insurance plans as your primary source of new patients? I believe this can happen! Referred patients are the most profitable and satisfying way to grow a dental practice.

Howard: It's just a huge honor today to be podcast interviewing Frank Wolf, who is a dentist and homie and colleague of the street. Im in PHoenix and your in Scottsdale?

Frank: Cave Creek

Howard: Cave Creek which is beyond, Oh thats where my sister Shelly lives.

Frank: Northern Phoenix

Howard: Yeah my sister Shelly, My youngest sister lives there, and then right to the right of that is Fountain HIlls right?

Frank: No Fountain Hills is considerably east of there so I'm right next to Carefree, Scottsdale, It's like right on the corner, Basically one intersection you've got, Phoenix, Cave Creek, Scottsdale, and Carefree.

Howard: Wow! Beautiful country up there, Rick Kushner my buddy retired up there. Do you know Rick Kushner of Comfort Dental?

Frank: Yeah

Howard: He bought a home in the boulders. Dr. Frank Wolf is a referral marketing expert and he's the creator of Royalty Referrals, one of dentistry's most comprehensive and effective internal marketing systems. After struggling through dental school, Frank started his dental career cleaning teeth at a pediatric dental office earning $10 an hour. After years of much trial and error Frank honed his marketing systems that enabled him to build his dream dental office that allowed him to retire from clinical dentistry at the age of 42. Bored and restless after four years retirement, Frank was anxious to test his referral strategies and purchased a failing and foreclosed dental practice. In less than three years during the worst global economic meltdown in history, he increased new patient referrals from 8% to 544%. His talents have been praised by Larry King of CNN, Jack Canfield co-author of the Success Principles and Chicken Soup for the Soul and Dr. Gordon Christiansen who is officially the god of Dentistry. Following his life's true calling Frank is bringing his enthusiasm and passion for marketing, to helping other dentists grow their practices internally through referrals and to raise money for the New York relief efforts after 9/11 tragedy, Frank took up amateur boxing  and organized a charity boxing fundraiser And as so, he retired from boxing undefeated with a record of one win and no losses. “Good for you!” I remember being a little kid, Muhammad Ali just retired he kept coming back for more and it was like no don't do that.

Frank: Yeah

Howard: So you know the reason I'm so excited and me on the show is if, if I lined up a hundred dentists in any city any country and said you know if I was a genie you get three wishes  what would it be, they always want more new patients. They say you know I'm at the place I gotta pay my rent, mortgage, insurance, malpractice, professional dues but if I guess if I already paid all my bills that extra tooth ache that extra patient would would be would fall to the bottom line. So I know what they want I know what they're driving to where they're saying dude just show me I get ten more new patients a month.

Frank: Yeah

Howard: What would you say that person?

Frank:  I would say it's a great intention, I would say that new patients are without a question the life blood of a dental practice, without a steady stream of new patients coming in a practice will stagnate at best and will decline over time. There are only two ways that a practitioner can bring new patients into their office, that you can either spend you know gobs of money every month on external marketing and advertising or they can create a referral culture in their business that inspires and promotes referrals, or you can do both and I believe that at the foundation of the marketing pyramid referrals should be the primary source because if a practitioner is doing any type of external marketing, it just makes good business sense to take those externally derived patients and turn them into referral advocates so your return on your advertising dollars goes up and over time you'll be able to wean yourself from the need to spend money on external marketing. I mean that's in an ideal world.

Howard: You know, I just had a guest on the show yesterday and he's in a town where there's one guy who hasn't taken a new patient for a year and it's like there's two hundred eleven thousand Americans have a legal license data sensory and you sometimes you can't find one dentist in one state that has no more new patients so so that this patients coming in the front door going out the back door I mean I always when I try to Vegas I look at Hoover Dam now that's that's a practice that doesn't let anybody go away and and builds up that huge among its place but most dentists if they have the same size I mean once you get to a plateau say you're doing $40,000 a month and they give you $40,000 a month for 10 20 30 years that means they're new patients coming in pretty much equals the old patients going out.

Frank: Exactly

Howard: I mean only have 15 patients a month I mean the idea is if they work 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year that's 2,000 hours that means that they they could see a thousand people twice a year so no pareo no three-month in a thousand patients divided by what do you think the average dentists in the United States get how many new patients you think the average dentist in the United States gets out of months?

Frank: I'm gonna guess 20

Howard: Okay so a thousand patients divided by 20 that means every 50 months they would have added another full-time hygienist. So 50 so every four years they would add another hygienist and you can go look at this guy set up at 25, he has a full-time hygienist he still has one full-time hygienist at 35 45 55 65 so patient retention is is just incredibly low and a lot of it can be explained by a transient society but even in Phoenix, in LA, where it's one of the most transient societies in America it's only a 10% steady flip a year of people coming in a you you flipped in here from Chicago in 2004 so so transient population could explain 10% of it

Frank: okay

Howard: but it doesn't explain 90% of it.  So well,

Frank: What have you found to be one of the biggest causes of practices losing patients out the back door

Howard: I think it's staff turnover, I mean they come in they saw Bessie they want Bessie to clean your teeth, they call them say yeah I want to get my teeth cleaned with Bessie. Bessie don't work here anymore. That's why DSO's  are having such a hard time, I mean I've been we've been in Phoenix practicing with these guys in our town and what does the number one complaint you here with DSOs, every time I go there it's a different dentist and I don't want to throw DSO's under a bridge because the associates are working in private practice either. In fact who's the greatest millennial person to work for of the four big tech companies of Facebook, Apple, Google, Netflix, they worship their employees. They give them every perk from pool tables to ping pong to lunch for bite and everything. I think Facebook keeps them the longest and that's only averaging two years and Amazon's at least at one year. Millennials don't stay in one place.

Frank: Yeah

Howard: I mean that day that you got a job at 40 or 25 and retired at 65 like my uncle who's up the street in Casa Grande, he got a job with Mobil Oil when he was 16 and he retired when he was 65.

 Frank: Wow,one company

Howard: you know what is so funny when he hired there was this little checkbox do you want us to withdrawal 3% of your paycheck and invest it in Mobil Oil stock and he says he doesn't even remember checking it but he said whatever, yeah and you would not believe how many millions of dollars that was

Frank: millions

Howard: Oh millions

Frank: multiples

Howard: Yeah unbelievable, yeah so the reason I like word-of-mouth referrals is all the research I've seen is if someone says oh yeah Howard's a good guy, you can trust him go in there they'll spend three bucks, but if they come in off that just a routine flyer they don't know you and you say well you had two cavities well that's selling the invisible so you're looking at me say do I trust you do I really have two cavities you're saying I need a deep cleaning and four cavities and I just want my teeth bleached.

 Frank: Right

Howard: So I think "slow down retention slow down turnover" I mean my my new hygienists that I just hired has been there nine years.

 Frank: Wonderful

 Howard: In fact I'm really sad because one of my assistants has been there 15 years, he's been taking night school and now he's gonna go back to college and it's like I'm so happy for him but I'm so sad for me and my patients because you know how many people are gonna say "oh my god where's Joanie,where's Joanie?" so we're gonna have to explain to thousands of people that he went back to school. So back to those new patients how what would you recommend:

Frank: At the at the very least make it an intention to build a referral culture in your practice so in my business the only metric that I was measuring was referrals because I knew if I was doing a good job clinically and my team and I were servicing our patients and we were doing all the right things then our patients would be happy and they would refer so I was fortunate well if we can just take a step back when I started my career I came out of dental school like most doctors with a lot of debt and no job and I started my practice from scratch leasing office space downtown Chicago on Michigan Avenue it was a beautiful office on the 12th floor overlooking Grand Park in Lake Michigan and there were six other independent dentists leasing office space in the same office and there were 436 other dentists in the immediate downtown vicinity and everybody was trying out market the next guy and even if I knew even if I had money to market or knew how to market I mean I didn't have a prayer because I didn't have either either the knowledge how to do it for the money to do it so I spent you know many years struggling trying to figure it out I worked at a pedo office three days a week doing hygiene for ten bucks an hour when I was in high school.

Howard: Is that your official rock-bottom or did you have fun doing it?

Frank: Treating kids for me was invigorating I actually left at the end of the day energized you know again but I'm in my you know early to mid 20s you got a lot of energy when you're 20 right, but it was fun I learned a lot I worked for actually so my periodontist that's who I worked for Dr. Marvin Berman, great periodontist but when I was a kid there are a few influences that inspired me to go into the profession and you know every dentist has the reason why they went into the profession.  Mine was first and foremost traumatic and sucked I had as a kid I had lots of cavities and I had a ton of pain and it was just not fun and I thought to myself my god there's got to be a better way and again when I was a young guy growing up my father was always he would always leave home early in the morning to go to work and he'd come home from work late at night and it seemed like he was always at work and so we were out vacationing on the East Coast visiting some relatives and their next-door neighbor was a dentist who had his office set up in his home. That's like how cool, this guy never has to leave home to go to work so that kind of planted a seed in my head and my parents because they worked for other people, always advocated to me and my siblings to go into a profession be your own boss. Go into dentistry, go into law. So at an early age I decided I was going to become a dentist and I don't know about you Howard, but when I got into dental school it it was not fun, I hated it, I didn't have any instructors that were enthusiastic about the profession.

Howard: What dental school?

 Frank: University of illinois-chicago

Howard: Is that dental school closed now?

Frank: No that's Northwestern, Northwestern and Loyola closed. So you know I went from undergrad at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, I don't know if you've ever been to Madison...great city on two lakes rolling wooded at 40,000 young people, you know drinking age was 18 lots of girls, a concrete campus one building the same lecture hall with the same 135 students day in and day out looking at you know histological slides cutting up a human cadaver like what's this all about and again having any enthusiastic instructors I was depressed. I would go home crying to my parents about how miserable I was and and they would say to me well we're not gonna love you any less if you quit and I was like I'm not gonna quit because there were two themes, values if you will that that really were embedded in me as a young kid. One was my stepfather encouraged me to embrace the notion that if you start a project to finish it and the second was the Sportsman's Creed which hung from the rafters of my high school gymnasium which read winners never quit and quitters never win. sSo I was like damn it I started this curriculum I'm gonna finish it come hell or high water because I'm a winner not a quitter so I just you know literally grit my teeth put my head down and got through the program and you know it was a ginormous accomplishment for me considering it

Howard: What year did you graduate?

Frank: In 87

Howard: 87 so were the same age same year

 Frank: Yeah you know I was very proud of the fact that I got through it. I was never really a good student, I'm a product that the chicago public school system that to say that's an excuse but I didn't have any study habits when I got into college. I was way behind my peers, I had to get tutored in math and I had to learn how to become a student and when I got out of school as I mentioned dental school I realized like shoot if I'm gonna make it in the profession I'm gonna have to get experienced and master the new patient game. So as I mentioned that I had struggled for many years trying to figure it out and I went to every marketing course I could read every book I could spend every free penny that I had trying different things to market and grow my practice and after a number of years I realized that the the most effective patient that I can get was a referred patient. So I started focusing most of my efforts internally on referrals and over time I developed a referral marketing system that allowed me to build my dream office about a mile from Wrigley Field that gave me the financial freedom to retire from clinical dentistry at the age of 41 and like I said I wasn't happy as a student I was never passionate about clinical dentistry, so another value that my my stepfather encouraged me to embrace was if you're gonna do something do it right. So I thought to myself well what is doing dentistry right mean to me well it meant being my own boss and building my dream office and retiring as fast as I can because I just wasn't happy doing the hands in the mouth dentistry. I love the business side I love the marketing I love putting the systems in place, you know finding the right people training them and and growing your business that was exciting and don't get me wrong part you know when you can get a patient out of pain it's rewarding when you can nail that root canal you know and you got a gorgeous three canal endo that looks beautiful radiographically that's a good feeling. When you could do a cosmetic case that's very rewarding as well, but I was never jacked about the clinical side it was always the business the marketing side that got me enthused and excited. 

Howard: Well you know same with Rick Workman, he owns 850 offices he loves the business side. It's kind of funny the people who own the largest dental business in the world are dentists that don't produce dentistry, they love the business side and so that's why when I tell dentists when they say well you know I like bleaching Bonnie's veneers and invisalign but I don't know if I want to place implants, well you can get a periodontist to come in and place all your implants for you at 50% or you can reaffirm back or you know whatever your business model is, but man when you like the business side that really helps to the business you know but you know we've always told dentist on this show consistently that the number one return on investment in dentistry is always the consultant.  You know again success leaves clues it's easy to figure out. Every single dental consultant's ever been on this show has said that you know usually their plan is they go in the office, they observe. So day one they observe then they go home and write a report, the next day they come and they tell everybody what would he'd do on day one. No practice manager consultant ever came on my show and there's lots of them, has never seen anybody in the office ask for a referral, they've never witnessed it in their 10, 20, 30 years and your talking about creating a referral culture.

Frank: Right

Howard: I mean I don't know I guess they just you know, humans are afraid of public speaking, they're afraid of asking, they want to be dominant, they don't want to be humble and say "hey Frank we know we fixed you up" you know, you saw them all the time I said you know me and my assistant we haven't had a cavity in 20 years if you go back to the hygienist and you do what she says she tells you to come in every two months three months four whatever she does you do as she says I'll never see you again because at age 65 none of the hygienist for a denture but ten percent of Americans have no teeth, twenty percent are missing half at 75, twenty percent of missing all their teeth and another twenty percent are missing half and so since I'll never see again do you think there is anybody that you might think would like to come in here and see me and now with the rolodex it's amazing. I'll say to them, I'll just break it down, I'll say how many contacts are in your or in your cell phone? I don't know how you find that on the iPhone... what do you do, just go to the bottom, yeah so I have nine hundred and twenty three contacts in here so it's probably twenty three family nine hundred others. I'll say how many contacts do  you have in your deal they'll say I don't know 100. Their's gotta be one person in that deal that you think would need a dentist. Like can you think of anybody... and a lot of times I was like oh my god, my brother-in-law, we were at Ma's house on Sunday he couldn't even chew on his right side. I'll say well you can cross your fingers that he's on an iPhone so you can FaceTime him but I guess now they're doing, I've had some patients do it on a messenger, Facebook's messenger and or something like that I might be wrong on that but facetime him and now that person you know his sister laws in there she called, Greg Stanley taught me that. That advice he's up by you in Scottsdale, but so how do you, why do you think dentist, hygienist, they never asked for a referral and then same thing for an office I mean if you go into any small business in America the highest paid person in the office making six figures is inbound sales or outbound sales. These are they're either answering the phone, selling something or he's gonna get in his car and drive around the state making sales calls and the lowest paid person is the guy in overalls working the machine shop selling whatever widget they're selling and dentistry is reversed, that guy in the machine shop is the expensive dentist and the person answering the phone, I mean so many dentist answer the phone. I mean I've seen so much day work forty percent of incoming calls go to voicemail and if their answer is can you please hold.

Frank: Right

Howard: Let alone Frank calls me up and then I have the time to say by the way Frank do you have a loan or a wife, or a kid or a dog or you know anybody else that might work I mean they just they just never ever ask for any other business they don't manage it. I I think the biggest part of business of managing the incoming and outgoing sales calls and that's why all the DSOs, Rick Workman of Harlan told me that you know he's an Effingham and they only got ten thousand people, but he said that's the biggest constraint of his growth is as finding the people to expand his call center and then I'm like, you know the dental office opens thirty-two hours a week that's nineteen percent of the week these DSO's are managing the incoming calls one hundred sixteen hours a week which is five times the coverage from thirty two hours  to 168 so talk about anything some of that stuff.

Frank: I mean I just I want to comment on the fact that what you just said is so true and so damaging to a dental business. Most doctors have one staff member answering the phone let's say, be generous and say two, they're dedicated to working the front desk the office is open 40 hours a week right and if the phone rings during those 40 hours most of the time that front office person is either collecting money, presenting treatment plans, talking with insurance, dealing with vendors, the likelihood of a new person calling that office because they're throwing advertising out into the community they want the phone to ring the phone's ringing and like you said it's going right in the voicemail. So I would absolutely say it'd be foolish not to invest in in some type of call center service a close friend of mine Josh Summers from Dental Game Plan offers a wonderful service for

Howard: Dental Game Plan?

Frank: Yeah Josh Summers at Dental Game Plan.  He's brilliant I don't know if you've talked to Josh.

Howard:  So what's his name for my homies Josh Summers Dental Game Plan, oh my gosh he's already in here from Greater Los Angeles. So what's he do for you?

Frank: Well he does he allows my phones to be answered all the time and he he allows the staff that he has answering the phones for me are answering it the way I want them to answer it.

Howard: Wow

Frank: It's, they get coached  and I don't, you know my office at the time, I just recently sold my practice in August so but I'm still working as a an adviser to the doctor who bought my practice so I still I call it my practice because I'm again very committed to helping him grow as well as other doctors.

Howard: So where where's the practice that you sold:

Frank: In Anthem

Howard: Oh anthem, that was a high-growth deal during the 2000's the 2000 Lehman's day

Frank: That's the funny thing you know in in that period of time from 2008 to 2012 over 300 practices closed here in the Phoenix metro area.

Howard: How many?

Frank: Over 300


Frank:  Yeah

Howard: I knew there was 86 in Phoenix, but Phoenix is only, there's only a million people, the metros almost 4 million it has 4 million the majority

Frank: That I don't know

Howard: Yeah but you said there were over 300

Frank: Yeah over 300

Howard: What did they have in common because we're you know in the one thing I can smell is you know we live at 2000 AD the pyramids were built 5000 years ago. I think we're only at the halfway mark of really understanding everything so you know it'll be 5,000 more years before we understand pretty much the science of everything and so in economics, which I love and I have an MBA in, I mean there's just cycles. I'm a graduate in high school it crashed it was 21% interest rates double digit unemployment inflation then was smoothly until 87 when I graduated then October was Black Monday the stock market quarter then it was the longest expansion 87 to march of 2000 when the y2k bubble broke and then it was another 10 years Lehman brother 2009 and now it's it was 2008 September 15th 2008, well it's been another decade. I've never lived a decade I mean I lived 13 years ONE time, but so ice and it all smells the same that it's crashing again. I mean Amazon stock passed a trillion dollars now it's at 750 billion all inside of a couple months so lessons learned. When those three hundred offices went under who was going under and who wasn't going under?

Frank: I think the guys that were going under had invested heavily or they borrowed heavily to build their nice office to get it equipped. They did not have systems in place for generating new patients on a consistent basis, they didn't have systems in place for a lot of their other business systems for keeping their costs down and their profitability up and if you don't know how to get new patients in your office and you don't have the, if you don't know how to do it and you don't have the resources to pay somebody else to do it you've got a recipe for disaster and I think that's the problem.

Howard: Okay we were we were calling those back in the day the dental Taj Mahal's there what about what I saw and had people in my front room my house you know crying tears it was it was a stressful time and some of them we could clean up and some time some of them there was just nothing you can do.  I saw two deals one was they go buy the land in the building they built a 5,000 square foot with our work and marble and I mean they had a million dollars they were carrying a million debt between the land and the building and someone would have another five six hundred thousand of the equipment inside the building. If you're looking at this guy and he's got three hundred fifty thousand dollars in student loans and he's married with a stay-home trophy wife living in a  $1,000,000 home and it's like oh my god. I remember one guy I'll never forget, had five cars I said well to free up cash flow the first thing we can do, I mean like right now, let's put up all the cars for sale because they were nicer Mercedes they was Land Rovers and all five were leased, all five you couldn't get out of the lease. So a lot of the big high overhead Taj Mahal's collapsed and then the young guy, back to your expertise, who kept seeing you, start up brand new offices and do a whole bunch of direct mail and and flyers and just the standard digital marketing and this thing will get 30 40 new patients a month and the marketing stopped working I mean I don't care what anybody says in this town where I lived 2009 and 2010 marketing did not work and even when I was podcasting people that you know, everybody was reporting it for a couple years marketing didn't work. That was after that huge meltdown, because people don't want to walk away from their car payment or their cell phone. They'll never turn in their car, their cell phone but they'll walk away from their house, they'll walk away from six-month visits, their cleanings. You know when that that's why lunch restaurants always go under first because people shifted inferior goods they're not gonna go eat a 7, 8 or $9 lunch at work they're gonna go to taco bell on the dollar menu and get a burrito to go for a buck. So yeah those are tough times. I think we're right there again as I said you know I'm predicting a downfall, well then you're crazy because nobody predicted the help, the craziest non prediction ever was the outbreak of World War One. I mean it took people 50 years to try to figure out that what the hell happened. I mean all that calamity and no one really understood how that could just explode like that and war - the Arab uprising that followed the Berlin Wall. Nobody can predict the future I've never seen any evidence of anybody predicting future but it like I say it just smells, what was that Nirvana song smells like teen Sunday, teen spirit it smells like teen recession spirit is upon us I just I just smell it.

Frank: Well statistically everything cycles through you know you got your highs and your lows even the planets warming is cyclical right, right and it's all just temporary right, our planets temporary sun is gonna burn out one day and our planets gonna be long gone before the Sun burns out and as a species we're gonna be gone too, so enjoy it while you're here right.

Howard: Yeah,  so how can these dentist create a culture of asking for referrals. Wait one last thing on that caller so you're saying the guy at the Dental Game Plan. I'm trying to get my homies the right notes, Josh summers he has a dental game plan and what does he do for you he runs your call center?

Frank: Yes and he does other services for me as well and so I just advocate that he does other services as well.

Howard: I'll tell you what I think he should come on the show!

Frank: I think he should too

Howard: Can you get him come on the show? Well you're a boxer undefeated so just tell Josh to come on the show or he's gonna get his ass kicked.

Frank: That's it man. So yeah the the reason why and you asked me earlier why aren't more offices making referrals a high priorities because they're they're not making it an intention, they're not choosing to make that part of their business. I as a mandate for my employees I made their participation in the referral program and it's a system it's and I made it non-negotiable. like practicing universal precautions you can't sometimes do it and sometimes not it's non-negotiable in fact we fired an assistant because she wasn't following the protocol the standard operating procedures for infection control. So she was gone and so I had certain mandates and I empowered my employees with all the tools and training and resources necessary to make it easy for them to incorporate weaving those what I call referral habits into our day and a lot of I think one of the mistakes that dentists are making is they believe that asking patients for referral is what you need to do, that's not a system. A system is a our processes that are in place that repeatedly consistently and deliberately give you the same results that you want over and over and over again and it's just  not unlike doing that having systems for dental healthcare we have systems for doing endodontics we have systems for doing veneers systems for replacing implants and it's not just one thing well how do you place the implant. I mean you know besides getting the education on placing implants you need the right tools you need the and you have to understand what the circumstances are to dictate.

Howard: So what you have two websites, you have a Frank Wolf, your name and then you have my homies listening to you that want to create system for their office where they go to Frank wolf or royalty referrals .com?

Frank: Here's what I'd like to offer your listeners as a token of my immense appreciation for you know being on your show Howard and I want to just applaud you for you know your presence and the contributions you're making to our profession. I think it's awesome I've been a big fan of yours since the early days when I think you first put out MBA in dentistry what a 30 day.

Howard: 30 day MBA.

Howard: Did I ever tell you a story on that what that was

Frank: Tell me

Howard: I bought my, it was 98 yeah, I bought my first laptop and I signed up every when I went to Barnes and Nobles every business book I reread, I didn't have anything else to read. So I signed up for the evening ASU MBA program and it was two classes a trimester for two years so it was a 2, 4, 6, 12 courses. So I took my new laptop in and I went and I said well I'm just gonna take notes for my dental office and then so those two classes my dental office my Today's Dental everybody's trying to implement the things we learned from those two classes so implement all that every two classes you know three trimesters two years and it was a total GameChanger and then when I was done I took my notes and I just lectured and it was 30 hours long so I slice it up into the 30 day MBA and now it's free on YouTube yeah it's free on iTunes.

Frank: and I bet and I have not I did not take your course but I bet if I took it today it would be as applicable today as it was when you created it because it's those those business principles that are timeless and that's the same thing that I teach with referral principals. hey you know referrals is not new or unique to dentistry there are universal principles that could be applied in any business if you work them they will work in return of dividends for you so I would say though getting back to your question where would your listeners go, I'd like to gift your listeners my introductory referral marketing system and it's a twelve hundred ninety seven dollar training system that they can get absolutely free.

Howard: On which website?

Frank: They can go to and when they when they enroll their to get their their introductory referral training system, if they're one of the first 24 doctor's Howard, I'd also like to gift them  a referral strategy and growth planning session. It's a one-on-one about an hour-long consultation where I'll create a customized plan for them that will help them increase their referrals, their cash flow, and their profitability. I normally charge $997 for the service but again is a token of my appreciation for being on your show I'd like to gift that to them as well and in this phone session on basically like I said create a plan specifically for them based upon their their wants needs and circumstances that will immediately increase their referrals, their cash flow and their profitability and I guarantee that that phone conversation will make them more money.

Howard: So what is your average when you work with a dentist what is it, what are the average change in metrics?

Frank: It's a great question, I believe small incremental changes over the long run are the most impactful. Doctors who referral marketing is a long term play, it's like a marathon it's like losing weight if you're a hundred pounds overweight you're not going to lose it all in a week or a month or for some people even a year so it's a slow process and Warren Buffett said building wealth takes time and building a referral culture takes time as well it's about practicing what I call referral habits. Small incremental steps done repeatedly like flossing daily, brush twice a day, get your teeth cleaned a couple times a year. Generally you should be pretty good from an oral health perspective, some people have to do a little bit more but if you just practice those things you'll do well. Same thing with diet and exercise so if you do those things consistently the things that I coach and teach I call them referral habits, then the culture starts to it becomes exponential you start seeing the the efforts and for example my practice and anthem it was it was in foreclosure, a woman had lost her license she had a bunch of associates you know in and out a revolving door of doctors the practice was called smiles of beauty and unbeknownst to me people in the community called it smiles of stupidity. I was clueless.

Howard: How do you lose a license?

Frank: How do doctors lose their license....

Howard: Usually it's substance abuse

Frank: I can't comment I don't know why

Howard: Maybe it's just all my friends,  but no usually to have your licence taken away it's something criminal like substance abuse, what I always hear it's about 80% alcohol 15% hydrocodone and 5% cocaine for substance abuse.  Which is so silly because you know it's not a you know 30 years ago and I got out of school that was a shame guilt you're a bad person. Now it's considered a medical disease and it's so funny out of here in Arizona every time someone usually the DA will knock on the door because you know your dispensing all these things and the ones that sit there and try to like fight it and get a lawyer, "no you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong oh my god" they lose your license and usually go to jail and the ones who just raise the other hand say dude I don't know what to do I can't quit drinking during the day, "that's cool that's cool" they call a guy you go to the Betty Ford Center you know. So if you're if you have a substance use problem you're not gonna do anybody any good keeping it in the closet. I mean you know that's why people in relationships do better because if you're if you have relationships and you have office managing you have a team and you keep all your skeletons out of the closet your team knows how to help you but if put all that in the closet and it's the same thing with dental office consultants I really believe at the end of the day the reason lately it's so funny like you'll ask an economist, you know what's the average dental office do, they say well collect 755 and they'll net 147. Yes any price range of speak consultants oh well the average Joes collects about a million five and takes home 350 yeah the people you work with but all the people that need a consultant don't get one and they can have a 2x return and all the people together like that yeah a friend of mine right now has a I was doing four million dollars a year and all the things I mean Christmas we were talking about what consulting he had for next year and he went back to one he's already had like three times the last 30 years and but a lot of reason I don't think those guys want to sold it cuz they're embarrassed they don't want to tell you that they're drinking vodka on the way to work. They don't want to show you all their overhead and bills they're just so much shame and guilt embarrassment, they think I should be a successful dentist and they just aren't humble enough to say well you're not but you know what dentistry is a pretty good profession. I mean your mom did cry at graduation I mean you know she doesn't cry when you graduated from plumbing school, but she bawled when you became a dentist, physician, lawyer or whatever and they just they need to have humility and get help anyways so anyway.

 Frank: Yeah regardless of what caused this doctor to lose her license, it had a poor reputation in the community and did I already tell you that the name of the office it was called smiles of beauty but unbeknownst to me is recognized by people in the community as smiles of stupidity. It was me walking into a hornet's nest but and I didn't know I just didn't know any better I I came from a very I came from an insurance independent background in Chicago and I thought oh man you know I'll just do what I do and make it happen. It was a rude awakening for me it was all insurance and I did not do any advertising and during the this four year period between like 08 and 2012 when over three hundred practices closed my practice was growing in the in the double digits and I'm not saying this because I'm a better dentist than most I'm just an average bread and butter dentist. I'm saying this because I had learned and developed systems that enabled me to grow a business in in the worst economic time period not relying on external marketing to grow my business and so at we are new patients about 73% of our new patients come from direct referrals and the other 13% came from either insurance plans or people drove by and saw a sign.

Howard: You know how you were talking about in the Northeast your friend inspired you to be a dentist he does in his home, which is illegal in most of the United States at least in Arizona but you only see those really in the north east coast yeah and the owner of Facebook Mark Zuckerberg his dad is a dentist Ed Zuckerberg, he's been on the the show three times and he is dental office on the first floor yeah and then they lived on the second floor, you know front room, kitchen whatever they all slept upstairs and it's funny but when Ed was on the show we're talking about Facebook advertising everybody says well you know what the best Facebook advertising is he says it dentistry again I'll say that million times its selling the invisible it's got to  be trust you know. When I go to the mall I know everything I'm buying or not buying a restaurant or brands but when you go to a doctor and they say well you need to have your appendix taken out or you need to have four cavities I mean it's it's just trust and when said when people come in your office why do you give them a free toothbrush at the end of a cleaning once you give them a free toothbrush if they check in on Facebook because I was first on face there's got about 140 friends even though the average funeral in the United States is 24 people so 124 your friends a hundred up morning USA just say goodbye to your dad so that's a real friend and but they say oh my god Sherly just checked in doctor Frank Wolf's office, she's my smart friend I needed dentist and then she might text her and say Sherly tell me about Frank is he good? Is he good with kids, can he do this. So the minute they come in with any form of trust yeah they're gonna buy and that's measurable at three dollars to one coming in off a cold call.

Frank: Right well here's here's why referrals are so vitally important to the financial well-being of a practice. Number one they're the best new patient of practice can get for the very reason you just described. There's more trust with a referred patient because they're coming to you from a source that they trust and what that increased trust comes increased case acceptance there's more they show up for their appointments they happily pay for their services and they typically refer other people there's also a lot less skepticism and with a referred patient the cost of acquisition for a referred patient is zero you know it doesn't cost you anything to have a happy and satisfied patient tell other patients about you. Typically the the lifetime value of a referred patient is higher than with a cold advertised patient because again that trust factor and so there's there's a greater lifetime value, there's a higher retention with referred patients and a referred patient is more likely to refer another patient because that's how they came into the practice and then the whole cycle just repeats itself so it just makes sense if a business owners gonna be spending time effort and money on building their business it would make sense again as the foundation the make referrals the first and then hey you want to do print, Direct Mail search engine optimization radio TV great, take those new externally derived patients turn them in the referral advocates so your ROI goes up you know doubles triples etc. The the patient of my practice who held the record was twenty two referrals and I've got many patients who have referred multiple people just because they understood them.

Howard: Do you reward them when they refer? How do you Reward them?

Frank: Yes so we so there's a whole process again within my system of called recognition and  you know behavior that gets recognized and reward it gets repeated now.

Howard: In the other variable and that is the closer the better like here if the kid walks out to the street then you slap him a week later then he's confused.

Frank: Recency

Howard: Yeah because if you give them a reward send them a mug filled with gum and whatever and it doesn't hit him for four to six weeks, it might not even remember what the hell you're talking about yeah so I'd like to I like to get those mugs out yeah ASAP.

Frank: Yeah I just like to regress for a minute talk we're talking about trust there a couple things that that I do that I'd like to offer your listeners in terms of stuff that they can do tomorrow in their office to help build trust with new patients and one of the things that I do is I call it a pre appointment new patient phone call and so when a patient calls the office and schedules, my scheduling coordinator would put a form on my desk that would prompt me to call the patient what I do is and and this I call them either the day they schedule or the very next day and I typically say hi this is a Dr. wolf from majestic dentistry Katie told me that she's called and scheduled your first appointment patient says yes I did I say great I'm just calling to personally introduce myself to you and welcome you to our practice and the patient says wow that's so very nice you I'll say thank you Mary is there anything you'd like me to know of to make your first visit with us as comfortable as possible and then the patient usually opens up and tells me some aspect of their past dental experience or things they like or don't like or what they want and I just take some notes down and and I just say great I'll look forward to meeting at your first appointment. Most I mean patients are blown away by this nobody or almost nobody ever has a health care professional call them in advance of their first appointment that's amazing so they're blown away by that secondly now they already have a so my that call reduces no-shows for new patients because there's already a sense of obligation from that new patient because you've already reached out to them first and they have a sense that they already know you and like you because you already extended yourself and reached out to them first so when they come into your office for the first time they're not sitting there crossed with this attitude like what are you trying to sell me there they're much more open and receptive so that that level of trust that bond has already been established. So that's one of the things that I do to differentiate myself frontier yeah it's ginormous then here's the thing Howard I want to just say I love that ginormous there's no better return on investment than a dentist's can make then this single phone call will do for them I mean it takes 30 40 50 seconds maybe a minute at most okay and there's I mean I'm gonna challenge you to tell me what a dentist can do to get a better return and I'm gonna challenge the listeners to start making this phone call that every one of their new patients before they come in and they don't wait to the day before this is not a confirmation or reminder phone call you want to get hit like just think if you made an appointment to see a doctor and that and your phone rings and the doctors calling you back a half hour an hour two hours that same day to say hey man yeah you called and scheduled. I call the patient once in the evening they were he was out having dinner with some of his buddies and I overheard him say at the dinner table it's my new dentist calling to introduce himself to me and welcome me to his practice well guess what that converse that guess what that phone call led to the topic of conversation was me they asked him who's your new dentist and that phone call led to more referrals from a person who wasn't even a patient yet, so I don't want the listeners to minimize or diminish the the the the magnitude that this simple phone call simple and easy and also very powerful. So that's one of the things that I do to instill more trust with my new patients the second thing, again this is all in the training system that I'm offering your listeners and the second thing that I do is after the new patient schedules we my scheduling coordinator sends them an email that has you know pertinent information their appointment we also include the new patient medical dental health form and we encourage them to fill it out at home and bring it with them because you know sometimes patients will come in you've got them scheduled for 45 minutes or whatever it is and then they come in they're usually five minutes late and then they spend 10 or 15 minutes filling out their form and now you're already a half hour you know behind so we absolutely advocate that they fill out the form before they come in and in that email that we send them we have a link on the bottom and we encourage them to click on that link where we have a whole bunch of happy and satisfied testimonials from my patients and we encourage them to click on that link so they can see and hear what other patients are saying what that strategy does is it reinforces in the mind of that new patient that they've made the right decision by scheduling with us and that we're gonna be the best dentist for them and it sets up the expectation that they're gonna be a very happy and satisfied patient in our practice because we have social proof that other other people are saying these things about us. So the relationship is that that trust and that sense of sense that they've made the right decision has started well before they even came and you know before they come in to the practice and then of course we wild them when when they come in with all the other things that all the other you know consultants are advocating for awesome customer service because you can have the greatest hands in the in the world but if your patients have a less than optimal pleasant experience and it's usually gonna be with an employee it's not gonna be with the doctor, you've blown that shot.

 Yeah this weekend right here in this town yeah my sister lives up by you I was watching the playoff games on Saturday and Sunday with my mom, four of my five sisters and there's some other girls and people in there and every time a health care, you know when you're 56 here you know and your mom's 80 there's a lot of health care stuff going on you know and it's so funny. I would always say would you that doctor, you know when you go in there and the lady just tells you that, she throws you a chart and to look out from her clipboard, didn't you look up that but it was so funny. Every time anybody had a medical conversation, it started with that, and that's why dentists are so hard on themselves and also stuff. Dentist and vets and chiropractors deliver ten times more customer service in value and affordability and extended credit and marketing. I mean most every physician I go to, every single one of them that the website doesn't even have an email or a contact form it's just you know this this doctor's office here's the number here's the address, you couldn't even send them an email I don't know if that's just something that's more common with the erectile dysfunction doctor, diabetes but no but so dentists are doing good but at the end of the day when you're listening this you're driving to work and again I don't like to throw DSOs on her bus because this this office and what make up here that was private practice they had a world House of this so that's right well the the world house and associates is a human phenomena Millennials people they like to fly the nest I mean why do you baby birds not stay with their mom and dad their whole life because they want their own damn nest they with their own damn house their own damn apartment and their own damn dental office. The human condition is such that I don't want to live under your thumb and you might be totally right you know. You might you might be the greatest roommate in the world but they that's not how they roll I mean remember in College how many people started rooming with their best friend or and it turned into a disaster because you're drinking beer pong buddy at night isn't a sort of the guy you want to be living with you know, and so they're all gonna get out but when they get out who wins. They hustle so you go open up in your town all the dentists where you're Monday to Thursday 8:00 to 5:00 so are you willing to start at 7:00 and go to 7:00 or you open it are you willing to do some Saturdays or every other Saturday. I love it you're the first guy on my show, a thousand shows to said when a new patient makes an appointment the doctors come back say hey Frank this is Howard Ferran, you just made a dental appointment I my dental office. I just want to tell ya thanks so much for joining our practice and before you come in is there is there anything you're expecting or anything you want me to know or I can't wait to see it's next Thursday at 2:00 yeah I can't wait and then and then afterwards you know at night and you're sitting there thinking man I beat the shit out of Frank today. I did a root canal and a crown and pulled two teeth, I'm just gonna get a my phone call my say Frank, Howard ferran your dentist you okay buddy... I feel guilty sitting here on the couch all comfy knowing that I beat you up with a baseball bat and he loved it.

Frank: Yeah that's the second most important phone call

Howard: So many people when you call them someone else answer the phone. Who is this this is your dad's dentist, "dad it's your dentist" everybody in the house hears that. yeah and so again it comes back to its hustle so yeah you're smart you're a dentist you got ease A's in calculus, I get it you're thinking about all the risk so that's why you live in fear. Dumb people don't think about the risk yeah so they just Wally and they're in their destinies long time just determine bite lock and but you're too smart you're over analyzing this I tell everybody I got out of school may 11 87 have my practice out in September 21 and I made four babies in 60 months.

Frank: Wow

Howard: Now if you would have thought about any of those decisions you wouldn't have done either because those are some huge irrational decisions but like I say you're young you got energy, fear the unknown get rid of it if you want to learn how to swim dive in the deep end, don't walk around it reading books for five years. Okay you're not gonna drown, no one does there's a lifeguard there called dental consultants and dental town you know dental town quarter million - so you get on there and you just want to be brave enough to say hey I opened up my practice and anthem and I got this problem but see you don't to do that you want to live in secrecy you want to live in shame in the closet like there's seven a half billion people in the world like everybody's gonna wake up and say "oh did you hear about Frank and anthem". Everybody's so busy thinking about themselves if you want any help you gotta climb to the tallest mountain get out of your megaphone scream how your problem is loud as you can and all that it's counterintuitive because the social animal one still a fly below the radar they want to live in a cave,  they get in their car and roll up the windows and then they go to work in their cubicle. Their they're a social animal who doesn't want any interaction they, would rather do this is bizarre they would rather use an ATM machine than deal with the human at the desk. They'd rather schedule like we have open dental so we have scheduled online, they do their schedule online and talk to you human. So as much as humans are social animal they really don't like to socialize they really and almost everyone thinks that they're a recluse. No they do think everybody else is out going out every night and all these parties and lunches and everybody's a socialite and there's something wrong with them because they just like to kind of stay home in their cave, no the stay home in your cave that's the silent majority and all these people flying around like on Instagram and Kardashians, that's just an anomaly behavior but just gonna just open up your own place and hustle. Open I mean when I opened up my office I worked 7:00 to 7:00 Monday to Saturday just so long I did that. Oh just for decade

Frank: I was gonna say ten years

Howard: Yeah and you know why it was so easy for your work because if I came home I had four kids and that was war. I'd rather be doing a filling than changing diapers and bottles and I mean yeah I thought I thought dentistry was a whole lot easier than changing diapers but so yeah it's hustle so calling after the appointment I've never heard that before so kudos to you.

Frank: You mean before, call them before the day of the day or the day after they schedule

Howard: Well the evidence I've seen is pretty strong that you want the behavior to reach change, your behavior reinforce behaviors and you want to follow up behavior to be as close as possible(inaudible..58:14) 

Frank: To the action, yeah...

Howard: So the kid steps on the street you yell "get out of the street",  someone calls that makes an appointment I would call him back that day and also it's a system saying it's a lot of dentists say well you know and Friday we're gonna submit all the insurance claims and Friday we're gonna mail out the mugs to new patients and Friday we're gonna call it. No your logistics doesn't work like that. You came in we're filling out insurance we're doing it and we're done we're gonna send the insurer it we're gonna complete this whole transaction. So you have to spend a lot of work on the pre process. So that the process always gets done.

Frank:  It's again, it's all about those small habits that are done consistently on a regular basis and to emphasize your point it's like dieting. You can't say alright I'm gonna do all my exercising on one day, I'm gonna just eat healthy and clean on one day and the other six days a week I'm not. Now if you do a little exercise daily and you moderate and control your diet regularly you're gonna be healthy you're gonna lose the weight if you want to lose away you're gonna feel you know more energized or whatever health goals you have.

Howard: You said that's on on brushing flossing the two great kings of Dentistry are brushing and flossing but everybody in Phoenix my practice prefers smoking and drinking.

Frank:  Good for us

Howard: as two kings, I say well you know your kings are smoke-king yeah drink-king. so he dropped the K and flip that around to brushing and flossing and you know what was amazing to me, some of those mind-blowing research I've seen is you know people come in and the doctor recommends his treatment but they don't have the money, they don't have the insurance, the money, sometimes they don't get done. I saw one study, you and I know I know this back from the day that people you would tell me at four quadrants at the periodontist and they wouldn't do it and but they started they quit brush smoking and drinking and start brushing and flossing and start a another day three four five years later they look good yeah but the ones had the four quadrants a gum surgery and didn't change their behavior usually within a year or two you can tell no difference at that and the most mind-boggling study was on bypass cuz a cabbage a coronary artery bypass graft that's 100 grand and a lot of people can't afford that or their Medicaid the insurance, but they did a study that, you were supposed to get a bypass and they have a control group and you didn't get it done but you did change your behavior you quit smoking, you quit drinking, you lost weight, you got to ideal weight without the bypass they lived three years and six months longer than the guy who got the hundred thousand dollar bypass because it's not the four quads of gum surgery of the bypass it's this daily stuff. If you want to build a mountain you gotta do something a little bit of something every day and then and that's been our motto with my management team you know I spent I said the first ten years you know. I always tell people of my dirty secrets in my office are real simple, I've been there thirty-one years but you notice all my management teams all been there twenty yeah it's a ten years of learning that I'm not gonna do it all myself, I'm not gonna micromanage, I'm not gonna be some super man. I need to start developing a great leader isn't leading anybody, great leaders creating leaders and it took me a decade to figure out that. Well I don't want just a receptionist, I want some lady that could just figure it all out and if there's a problem, she would look at that and she'd look on solutions and she'd go on dental town and she'd go continue education courses. I don't want to be the only guy going to CEE and then telling everybody what to do. I want to find people who can be mini-me's who can just sit there and have to bring the same attitude of an owner to the receptionist and that's when we started to scales. When a lot of people say to me well how do you do all these things, well you do all these things because you don't do anything. I mean when I had a team of people even there 20 years I don't have to wonder what Lori's thinking, Stacey's thinking and Ken's thinking. I mean the Dental Town magazines has been around forever. I mean you just gotta build a team, it's people time and money and the fish rots from the head down, so you're listing to this on your way to work your the head. Why does your office not have a referral?  Why are you the last person to go to work and you show up at 8:05 and the patient's been in the chair at 8:00, your staff has been there until 7:30 and you  waltz in like a lost hobo at 5:00 after and then you're the first one out the door you know. The leader just gather us all I don't think in the richest country in the world in America having a doctor, a dental surgery or DMD degree, I don't know how you can. I mean hell they average, Yahoo makes 174. I mean you just got to be fairly good to double that 350 and I also think there's a natural selection of people who don't want to work don't hustle they're the ones looking for an associate like they can just land some associate job and make 250 300, not gonna happen and they don't want to hustle. So that's why I don't see associate dental models because the associate you want ain't working for you, the associate you want is gonna do their own gig.

Frank: Absolutely

Howar: and that natural selection takes the whole cream of the crop so what's left. So a burned out fried hates dentistry doesn't care he doesn't want to take an hour online see. They don't sign up four, one hour courses, really that's not for the price of an uber. I mean how much do you pay in an hour... I mean our average of course is 18 bucks. When's the last time you went to a restaurant to go eat and drink where those uber was under 18 bucks, now maybe I'm going to the wrong side of town, why are all the bars in your side of town is that because of you?

Frank: Probably

Howard: It's because of you, but you see that seminar too, like here's the owner doctor he's all taking notes and asking questions and here's associate and she's on snapchat. So you're on snapchat, really... so that's why I think building a business model on associate dentist is as a business I would want to be in.

Frank: What is your sense of if we're projecting out twenty to forty years in the profession where do you see insurance independence playing a role as a private practitioner?

 Howard: One of the most amazing books I ever read was the Profit Zone, so what they would do is they would go through this was way back in the day this late 90s where they would go to an industry and say well let's let's not measure what the New York Times and Wall Street buddy which is they're always in the sales and revenue who cares ourselves enough they take autos you know GM, Chrysler, Ford. That's all the money but look at the net income he just stacked them up by net income the the people making the cars GM, Chrysler, Ford actually made the less than our profits the GMAC financing financed the cars made three times as much net income dollars per decade than the people making the car the people selling the insurance how come every time you turn on the TV you see Gekko and then and all these progressive and flow and all these deals, because they're so lucrative, they're making so much money they can just throw money away and all the advertising and when you look in dentistry and you say well let's just look at the profit dollars though the majority of the profit dollars are the ones that are insuring the dentistry and the ones financing in dentistry. The welder working his hands and operatory doing an MOD composite that's just sophisticated labor. I mean pushing a lawnmower is a low skill, welding is a high skill, doing a root canals a very high skill but it's still all manual labor working with your hands but I see the all the profit though. I wouldn't want to own Heartland dental, I'd rather own a dental insurance company that did all the insurance because at Heartland you gotta have dentist fixing one by one by hand whereas an insurance agent you just gotta get one agent to go to some big factory of a thousand employees and sell one contract and there's all your net right there and one does so I'd say I think and then what will happen to dentistry is you're not gonna be able to mass-produce it because it's not a standardized product, there's nothing standardized about dentistry. That's what these yahoo's don't get I mean Google and listen to Peter Dawson and then go listen and go to Panky go to Ross Nash go to Speer, go to all these guys. They look in a mouth and they'll see something totally different than somebody just came out of dental school, so some people you know you see a patient they think you have occlusal disease and TMJ and sleep apnea and all this and another guy just goes in there and takes vitals just to see if you have an inter proximal lesion. So you can't roll out a business model when every single dentist and we only have two pieces of good research on that one was some Reader's Digest you gotta have some axes study models went to 30 different dentists got 30 different treatment plans and the government got ahold of that and thought is this is this just for real...So the NIH did it with a hundred and they went two treatment plans were the same those are the two dentists said you needed nothing and then three plan three to a hundred every one of them was different. So when you go to a dentist I mean sometimes just say Howie you got two cavities and you need a deep cleaning and you need to be on three-month recall and you got sleep apnea I need to send you here for a sleep study test and you need to  just a completely different level of a diagnosing treatment planning a piece presentation and these are always your guys doing a million and a half dollars a year on four days a week and then you have the next dentist that goes in there and says well is any tooth bothering you and you point to a toothache. So he's either gonna pull that or a root canal that one, so you start with you need nothing and I and the console's have all been telling me over the years that they really correlated that alot with depression. That haven't they can I add one that sit there that, I can go into one office and pull ten charts and if there's watches and all ten charts I'm dealing with a clinically depressed doctor.

Frank: Interesting, what studies showed this?

Howard: On my podcast, these deals, I've had several consultants say that. So you're depressed, you're burned out and the hygienists says to you, hey Dr. Wolf I got a stick on number three, oh well just watch it. Well the hygienist in here for hours,  she's got damn stick, the bug that eats your teeth can't live an auction and stab in a hole,  it's a recusal, but you don't want to do it, it's a watch.

Frank: Well watch it get, watch the pathology advance

Howard: Well yeah you don't see in the farm I never grew up in Kansas the farmer said well these termites ate a whole about signs of a coffee can, I like to wait till the holes the size of hula-hoop or a barrel before I go in their to check, but so that so they're burned out, they're fried, they're depressed and you should go in there and totally back your hygienist and if you disagree with her ideas should be you know in the break room not in front of the patient, but what I've always done in my office is whenever she says yes I say no. Well we have dry hands and wet hands in the office I'll call anyone, I don't care who does an assistant you've been assisting me for thirty years you know when this says and then if I'm right and she says its a watch I said no that to do and then 20 minutes later I drop on this DO and I'm into mush I stop and I call him the hygienist because she doesn't get that feedback close to behavior. Remember you were staring at that and I kept telling you, you only see 40% of leaves on x-ray and you said it's a watch and get in there look and she's got a spoon excavator she's taking out oatmeal thinking oh my god. So you work with that person for nine ten twenty thirty years you know you don't have this up, but yeah at the end of the day it's just about they just gotta want it they gotta go out and hustle. Do it while you're young, open it up while you're young. Did you have any kids?

Frank: No kids

Howard: So you're a genius, I love that about financial planning, nobody who's ever come on to dental town or my podcast about financial planning they talk about everything but financial planning they talk about all this you know index funds and all this bullcrap that financial planning is well if you don't get married you won't get divorced and by the time you get divorced twice you'll die at the chair. You'll never have a retirement and if you have no kids you'll be really rich. I mean Bill Maher, they asked him how did you have a million dollars to give to some (inaudible 1:10:48), cuz I'd never gotten married I never had a kid, never got divorced and then he was interviewing somebody it was so funny it was I forgot who was on his show and I'm he's all the newspapers just going through his third divorce. Well you can't cut your assets and have three times and then kids are a half million dollars each. So if you want to be really if you're listening this and your goal is just to be Warren Buffett just to be really really rich just never get married and never have any kids and that's good to know because then when you do get married and you do have kids at least you're going in there realizing this is a lot of risk and a lot of expense a lot of stress that's why I think and then this is so counterintuitive, remember with student loans the people that have over a hundred thousand dollars in student loans, they have almost no default rate. It's all the people 20 and under does that a hundred thousand over you're committed, this is your deal.

Frank: Your all in.

Howard: Yeah you're all in, it's the people getting a communications degree and under 20, same thing in dentistry. Those kids who have baby in school they hit the ground in a full sprint at graduation.

 Frank: It's like burning the boat

Howard: It's like burning the boat, yeah I love that, yeah that was classic. Yeah the group what he meant by that is that the greatest conquerors when when they arrived up to a foreign country they burned all the ships so that he didn't have his military thinking maybe we should turn around and go back.

 Frank: There's no option, either you emerge victorious or you die trying

Howard: Yeah we're gonna overtake this tribe and win and kill them or we're all gonna die

Frank: Exactly

Howard: I mean crazy times back then. I wonder how that would have done in the era of newspapers and journalists and bloggers and Facebook. I wonder how that would behavior would have panned out, if they had the tools. Just gather and hustle man, just do it, if it's a big risk you know you love her, you know you all over there, you know you want to have a kid but you don't work at Aspen for five years thinking about it just go out there and say this is gonna be really crazy and I'm gonna open up one office remember one operatory in 400 square feet open a hundred and six the open up 24 hours day seven days a week would be the same as having five operatories open thirty-two hours a week it's not about a facility it's not about a big enough office what it's about is are you gonna hustle, are you're gonna call the patient after  they scheduled are you gonna call them that night after you beat them up, are you gonna do the right thing then when you finish the filling and it's an open contact sit there and say damn it and right then and now take it out redo it stand behind your work. I warranty everything I did  years. I think that's why I didn't get sued, this is because I warenteed everything nobody had to sue me because if it didn't work I gave your money back and I know just be straight front okay and we did a denture the fact that's why I got implants because my dentures were so horrible. I suck so bad dentures their hard, my brain said we'll just nail them down with titanium. So I got an implants because my dentured were so bad but every time the dentures were so bad they'd say well you know. my old ones were better I wish I got my money back. I was like alright you check right now.  No questions asked and now we're all in there and what did I want that that old lady to do, live a year for my office and bitch about me for the next 20 years till she's 103.

Frank: It's smart business Howard, that's smart.

Howard: Also the the best dentists out there I know, the best marketing are giving their patients their own cell phone number. Everybody's on the smartphone, I want to tell you that I have a thousand dentists in my phone and patients and dentist they don't abuse it. They don't call you on Sunday night and say "hey what up...did you see that movie?" They totally respect your time. I've never had patients abuse my time.

Frank: Right they're only gonna call you for a reason and the reasons related to their health their issues.

Howard: It's usually pain yeah and that's an extraction or a root canal,  crown or to be a post-op problem that you want to know about yeah you want to knock out early.

Frank: You know you can be available for them it's again, it's solidifies and deepens the relationship

Howard: Okay so let's wrap this up, I can't believe we went over an hour. How do they get there incentive,  go to

Frank: Yep and they'll get my entire introductory referral training system, it's again $1297 value and if they're one of the first 24 doctors to claim this gift, they'll also receive a referral strategy and growth planning session. It's a one-on-one phone consultation. I'll sit down with them and create a custom plan for them that will help them increase their referrals their cash flow and their profitability.

Howard: Well you can't beat that. So that was Dr. Frank W. Wolf DDS of Dental Referral Expert at or

Frank: But the gifts at

Howard: Well hey thank you so much for coming by tonight. I'm going to be up lecturing in your place, the oral surgeon up there Robert Guyette, I'm up at his study club tonight but thanks for coming down to Phoenix, did this area of town scare ya?

Frank: No I love this. I'm from Chicago I loved I love the urban life

Howard: I know, my dental school my undergrad Creighton and you know back a hundred years ago all those universities were out in the in the suburbs, so now they're all downtown so Creighton was right smack down in Omaha, UofM was straight smackdown in Kansas and I just love it down here and this for my homies live, but thanks for coming out.

Frank: Thanks Howard, I appreciate you man. 

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