Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
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178 Avoid The Landmines with Robin Morrison : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

178 Avoid The Landmines with Robin Morrison : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

10/6/2015 2:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 0   |   Views: 484

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AUDIO - HSP #178 - Robin Morrison

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VIDEO - HSP #178 - Robin Morrison

Learn HIPAA/OSHA compliance, billing, dental and medical coding, and a lot more.



Robin Morrison’s passion for dentistry and health care, combined with her entrepreneurial spirit, lead her to become the founder of two successful companies. She is the president of RLM Healthcare Marketing & Consulting, Inc., founded in 1997, and Dental Consultant Connection, founded in 2011.


Robin began her career in dentistry in 1981, working in an exceptional dental practice as an office administrator and marketing director. In 1997, she began to live her dream and launched her first business, RLM Healthcare Marketing & Consulting. As many entrepreneurs do, Robin recognized more business opportunities and needs, and couldn’t resist launching her second business, Dental Consultant Connection (DCC). DCC connects dental consultants and dentists to ensure the practice selects the right consultant to fit their needs. DCC has formed a “dream team” of 35 brilliant dental consultants who specialize in niche areas of dentistry.


In 2012, Robin teamed up with Linda Miles to form Oral Cancer Cause, Inc. (OCC), a 501 (c) 3 non-profit corporation. As founders of OCC and partners in additional dental projects, Robin and Linda have worked tirelessly to form an organization that will financially assist oral cancer patients and their families, while creating awareness about oral cancer. OCC was founded in memory of Robin’s brother, Mike Collins and Linda’s sister-in-law, Charlotte Estep, both who lost their battles with oral cancer.

Howard: Oh my gosh, how are you ladies doing today?

Robin: [crosstalk 00:00:10]

Howard: Okay, well introduce everyone Robin.

Robin: Okay, so I am Dental Consultant Connection and we have some phenomenal consultants who work with us and Christine and and Leslie are our compliance auditing specialist experts, so that is who we have here and they can tell you a little bit about them and I can tell you more about Dental Consulting Connection if that is what you want to hear it, but they are here to talk about what they are able to do, how they are able to help dental practice owners, investors, anybody looking to buy, invest, in a practice, they absolutely, positively need to have their practice audited first, so these are the ladies that are the experts.

Leslie is the HIPAA/OSHA expert and Christine is the billing/coding expert.

Howard: Well, that gives us 20 minutes each! Shall we go left to right? Shall we start with Leslie then Robin then Christine?

Leslie: Sure.

Robin: Sounds good.

Christine: [crosstalk 00:01:08]

Howard: Alright, Leslie, you are talking to about 7000 people, probably 80% of the United States, what can you ... What is the low hanging fruit that you can teach them today as they are commuting to work?

Leslie: Well, today I would like to impress upon everyone is how important it is to be safe at work. For your team to be safe, for your patients to be safe, and that all falls into the category of OSHA compliance, but that is not it. There is more too it. 

Infection control is a big hot topic today. We need to know that we are doing things correctly, that we are using the right products, that we are following the manufacturer's directions and what I find is that many times when dentists are seeking a new practice, they are looking at every from the front office, the numbers, the equipment, the payroll, the team, but they are not really looking at the steps that had been taken to keep the team safe.

Is the office in compliance or are they buying a potential landmine?

Howard: What do you think is the protocol? Everybody listening today has the situation where you end up giving a shot and you stick yourself, or the assistant, with the needle. 

Leslie: Well you know, I think what people really need to look at is does the office have systems in place? Is there an OSHA coordinators, is there an infection control coordinator? If there is not, if they have been playing tag team with the requirements for regulations, is there at least an OSHA manual?

Have they conducted any training? Do they have any documentation of training? Are they taking care of the waste management properly or have they been collecting sharps in a back room and just allowing them to pile up?

Have they had any kind of experience with having some hands on infection control training in their team so that they know that they are doing the right things when it comes to using their own equipment, using their own products and making sure that the care that they provide for patients is safe. 

I would be looking for those things to see what have they got in place. I would also be looking at have they followed the regulations concerning chemicals? Is there an MSDS book? If there is, have the team members been trained on the new MSDS book? SDS is the new MSDS these days, so if they don't know that lingo, then they haven't had the training that OSHA has required to be in place by 2013, so I would be very careful if I was a dentist buying a practice, buying a team, but buying a team that doesn't have the education in place.

Howard: We all do this, Robin, you see it all day long as consulting, it is so bizarre how ... A lot people ask me "How do you do it? How do you run a dental office and lecture and have a magazine all at the same time?" It is just delegation, delegation, delegation.

Dentists have so hard of a time with that. They are so controlling and they don't let go. I have one person in my dental office, I don't have to think about it, and that is what you just said, have a ... What did you just say? Have a OSHA compliance ...

Leslie: Coordinator.

Howard: Coordinator, yeah. I don't know why ... I mean, I tell dentists all the time "The founder of McDonald's, Ray Kroc, is dead and 40,000 McDonald's get up and have no problem without him because they created systems and they delegated and you can go to the grave.

Sam Walton spent the first 20 years of his life opening up 18 Wal-Marts. Now he is dead and they open 40 a month. I don't know why these guys can manage from the grave and the dentist can't manage from inside their dentist office, while they are alive, standing in front of it because they can't delegate.

Robin, what is your ... Why do you see dentists using consultants? What is the low hanging fruit of how you guys have so much value? When you go in there and all your team members are business consulting and office consulting, what do you think they don't get?

Robin: Well, it could be a lot if different things actually. Every practice is a little bit different, but bringing in experts like Leslie and Christine, we have experts that can go in and set up a perio program, that handle fraud, that handle systems, that handle HR issues, all kinds of things and one thing that we see that happens a lot of times is the practice owner, the dentist, wants to try to handle all those things themselves and when they do that, then it is not effective all the time because they are not experts in that area. 

You guys are dentists, you guys are clinicians, and I would say, you probably know this, that a large percentage, just are not business people, so to bring in experts that can do those things that they need help with, that they can actually grow their practice beyond expectations, then that is what they need to do. 

I think they just get caught up and we are all business owners too and we try to do as much of it as we can ourselves, but then we, at a certain point, we have to get smart enough and delegate certain things and I know I have to in my business and that is even part of the reason that I started DCC, was because I can't be an expert in billing and coding and HIPAA. 

I can be pretty good and know enough to be dangerous, maybe in all the areas, but I certainly cannot be the experts that the people are on this in their niche areas, so I think [crosstalk 00:06:37] same thing, they have to delegate to the experts.

Howard: The dentists should get this because we work with nine specialties. You pull your own teeth, but you need an oral surgeon to pull the ones you don't want to do. You do your own endo, but you have endodontists doing the molars and retreats you don't feel like doing. Ortho, you might do Powerprox, Six months Smiles, Invisalign, some adult ortho, but you have orthodontists for that little girl comes in at 12 years old that when she smiles it looks like her liver is showing.

You always ... You can't know all of clinical dentistry, and I don't know a single dentist who says "You know, I know everything about every area of clinical dentistry", but then they go into their business side and that is where they assume that they do and it is funny. 

Now that I have been out of school 20 years, it is embarrassing how biased I am. When a kid walks out of dental school, I can predict their success with a couple of variable. Number one, if they weren't born in the United States of America they will do infinitely better because when they are born in any country other than America, they have a work ethic and they will open up their office and work 7 to 7, Monday through Saturday while they are living in their dental office.

If they are born in America, they will buy a practice for $400,000 and a house for $300,000. They will leave every day at 5, they will buy a $30,000 car, they will eat out 19 of 31 meals and you come back to that kid at 50 years old and they are still paying off debt, but the Asian kid is debt free in four years because they literally started a dental office, lived in the [unplenned 00:08:20] operatory, didn't even own a car and their cell phone was on their business card and they took emergencies 24/7 for the first four years. [inaudible 00:08:30] 

Then the second predictor, I always tell people if you are in dental school and you were born in the United States, marry a dental student who was not born in the United States while you are in dental school. That is the second best move you can make in dental school, is ...

Robin: [inaudible 00:08:45]Howard, too, about talking about Asian dentists and ... I met one, that she was a young dentist, out maybe four or five years, she actually opened up a yogurt shop too. A frozen yogurt shop to run on the weekends, to make more money. I was blown a way.

Howard: Yeah, immigrants that come here, come here for a reason. They are highly, highly motivated and their work ethic is off the charts. Not many people leave a continent and go to another continent to find the job and the ones that do, you can not compete with an immigrant. 

When you open your dental office, even when you are looking at the demographics, they will say "Well there is ten dentists in this zip code." First thing I will say is "Yeah? Well how many of them weren't born in the United States, because if there is more than one, I would run."

Second thing is, if their dad or mom worked as an employee in an assembly line screwing a bolt in a hole and their mom stayed home and made cookies and they had no experience with a small family business, that is tough.

If your mom and dad were wheat farmers, dairy farmers, had a restaurant, or dentists. If their parents owned their business ... That is the deal. If Mom and Dad owned the business, what the little child doesn't realize is that there were so many business conversations at the dinner table, that you didn't realize you were sitting in MBA school and if your mom or dad owned their own business, those kids picked up so free enterprise, they don't know how smart they are because they weren't formally ... You know, you have 35 consultants working for you?

Robin: Yes.

Howard: Is that right?

Robin: Yes, well they don't actually work for me, they are part of our team. What we will do is we will do a practice analysis when a new client comes to us and we will analyze their practice, analyze their needs and help them determine who is going to be the right consultant to help them with their specific needs, and it is may be two or three, it may be in a specific order, they may have to implement phone training and customer service and systems before they start marketing, so we help them determine that because we find so many times, and I have been in this field 34 years myself, worked with a lot of consultants when I was in a practice, and sometimes do you don't get the right consultant at the right time.

They may be the perfect consultant for a particular area, but that might not be what they needed right then in the practice, so we really take a deep look and put a lot of thought into who is going to be a right match for that particular practice at that particular time.

Howard: You know what would be just unbeliveable? I think it would be unbeliveable for these dentists, just ... You should get your 35 consultants and make a curriculum on Dental Town. We put up like 320 courses, they have been viewed over 550,000 times. Half a million views so far, and you do a 35 hour practice management program and just have each one of your consultants do an hour and it would be the best marketing for the consultants, it would be so unbelievably awesome for the dentists, and we should do that with the podcasting.

We were noticing ... We were looking at the data, there are two separate behaviors. Some dentists say "Oh, I have to go to a lecture, I will never read the book." Some people, like myself, I always go to the dental conventions to buy the textbooks, the implantology, just go buy the textbook home, read it in a weekend where another dentist would say "No, I need to just attend the lecture. I will buy the book and I will never read it."

The people doing the online CE are a different market than the ones that like to do the podcasts because the podcast is a multitasking behavior. They are all commuting to work. Every single dentist that tells that if they love my podcast, they say "Yeah, I live in a small rural town of 5,000. I have a 70 minute commute every morning to work and I just burn one of these out on the way to and from work everyday." That is why we do two everyday, actually.

Robin: Makes perfect sense. Yeah, let's do it Howard.

Howard: Yeah, let's do it. 

I feel Christine hasn't said anything. Christine, we should allow you to say at least something. You can sit over there and yell SOS or help, how are you doing?

Christine: Normally I don't shut up, so I am really good today.

Robin: We saved the best for last.

Christine: Yeah, thanks Robin.

Robin: No, I'm kidding you.

Christine: One of the things that I love about working in conjunction with other people is one of the things I do teach dentists is collaboration, collaboration. Whether it is with your team, other doctors and now medical providers.

Working with Leslie and Robin on a big project has been one of the best experiences of my 30 years in consulting and speaking and the reason is we can focus on what we know best and we don't have to guess or try to work on something that is not our passion, is not our expertise and is not something that we should even be talking about, because some of these things are so important, it is what we will a, keep a practice profitable an b, keep doctors out of legal issues.

What Leslie does is keeping them legal. What I do, as far as documentation and coding, is a legal part of their business and a lot of doctors don't remember that they don't have to participate, this is such a fallacy, with an insurance company to get an audit. They just need one person to make a phone call, whether it is a patient or a person working in the office to make a call on OSHA, to make a call on billing, or any of those things that bring up things on why they should be compliant and what we can do for them.

Why purchase a practice? We just went through this where we did an audit where seven different practices owned by one person and a company was going to come in and infuse them with money and uncovered so many things that the company decided not to go through. That was a good business decision on their part, they paid us but they looked at what they paid up as a new smart investment ad if doctors could think investment, they would be using us all the time.

Howard: What do you think are the major billing code errors that you see in dental offices? One thing that I always notice in a dental office billing codes if you want into your buddy's dental office at the end of the day and you say "Hey, before we leave, let's go through every patient, what was done, what was entered, what was billed", you can always find, always, at least $200, if not $300 that the hygienist took the bitewings, it wasn't entered. The dental assistant took a PA or whatever.

You can always find a couple hundred bucks at the end of every single day with this one step. What are you thinking when you see dental coding errors?

Christine: Well what I see ... One of the biggest problems comes from documenting a diagnosis such as bleeding in perio, but yet they did a profie, so they are looking at what insurance will cover, rather than what the patient needs, in a lot of instances, and if you do receive and audit, that is what they will look at. They will look at what you documented and what you provided, so if you write that you did nutritional counseling, you should code that you did nutritional counseling so that everything matches up regardless of if you want to charge for it or not, you are responsible for educating your patient and providing them the best treatment. Not what insurance covers, so providing scaling and replaning, but documenting a profie, is a major issue in our country.

We tend to do what we think the patient wants, but we will do the best treatment and document the least best because of money, so we are doing a disservice to a lot of people.

Howard: You guys have all ... We have all, four, been in the industry for about the same length of time, even though I think I could be all of your dads, we have all been in this industry a long time. What do you think ... Do you think that since corporate dentistry focuses more on business, HR, marketing, billing, all this business systems, how successful ... How much of the market do you think they have taken as of now, 2015, and what is your prediction 10, 20 years down the road? Do you think they are going to get twice as a big, do you think their heyday is over, do you think it is a cycle that will contract, where do you see corporate dentistry in the future? Robin [crosstalk 00:17:34] Or whoever wants to go.

Robin: Go ahead, Christine. Go ahead.

Christine: I just really had a conversation with one of the big corporations, which I cannot name, but they are growing at 20% every six months. I find that to be amazing, they are not only buying practices, but they are building practices, so they are spreading way across the country. 20% is a big number, Howard, for a corporation, to be building in and the other thing that we see as investment companies helping doctors grow if that is where they want to go, so right now, I am working with more clients that are building additional practices, hiring dentists, putting them in, bringing in partnerships, 5 to six practices in a short amount of time, so I am seeing more corporate because they have more business minded people when they start out rather than dentists, assistants and front desk people who, by the way, never get any training, which is one thing that I am so passionate about.

If we hold doctors responsible for coding, we should enforce them the ability to have training for themselves ad their teams. Every single year because codes change every single year. That is what I am seeing. That is why they are successful.

Howard: What do you think Robin?

Robin: You know, it is interesting because I don't think I have a really solid prediction. I started in dentistry in 1981 and I remember when HMOs and all that sort of coming a long and everyone got really nervous and scared and then I remember Abram King, I don't know if you guys remember Abram King or heard him speak ...

Howard: I live in Phoenix, that is where he lived.

Robin: Oh, okay.

Howard: He passed away a few years ago.

Robin: Yeah, he did. Okay.

He predicted the three tiers in dentistry and I think those three tiers are still there, so I think that top tier is always going to be there and I know that is my niche. Those are my typical clients that I work with on the consulting I did for case presentation and marketing, and I think that is always going to be there.

Those two bottom tiers, the one in the middle and the one on the bottom, as far as quality dentistry and compromising certain things in dental care, that is probably going to be a bigger piece of the pie, but I do always believe there is going to be that top tier and I know plenty of them that are thriving right now.

It is a hard prediction, I think, because though the years it has kind of gone up and down. There has been scarier times in earlier years.

Howard: Yeah, Americans always ... People have a hard time predicting cycles. I remember when the stock market from '93 to 2000, people thought the stock market would double every two years for eternity and then what goes up comes down. Yeah, we saw big corporate dentistry in '87, Orthodontists [Association 00:20:33] of America, we saw that all crash and now they are back again.

I think it is interesting how, and when you talk to marketing consultants, they always said about half of America buys on price and about half of America buys on relationship, value added service, whatever, and then you combine that, overlap that, with what my son's [girlfriend he dated 00:20:56], keeps showing me that lawyers, there is a million lawyers, only 150,000 of us, half the lawyers work in these big corporate firms and the other half are small boating nets and I think that is redundancy is going.

I think that buys on price, corporate will probably do it better, faster, lower cost and the half that buys on relationships will still be a boutique practice. I don't know why corporate dentists are up to when 100% of all your new patients left another dental office because they weren't happy. I mostly see Americans not happy with their dentist.

If you are flying on an airplane and you sit next to someone and you say "How old are you?", and she says "I am 50." Okay, 50 years in the same city? How many different dentists have you gone to in your lifetime. She started thinking "I don't know. Four, five?" "Okay, why did you leave?" They are always leaving because they are not happy. If you could just stop ... Shut the back door and listen to her and talk to her and win her over with a dynamic team, or whatever, then you are going to build a dam in that creek and that eventually will be a Hoover Dam and that lake will be a mile wide. 

I don't see anybody keeping their patients. Think about it, how many dentists do you know that don't even accept new patients? If a hygienist worked 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, that is 2000 hours. That means she can only clean 1000 people twice a year, so if you got 25 new patients per month, every 33 months, every three years you add another hygienist. 

You go to anyone's dental office, their hygiene capacity hasn't changed in the last one decade, two decades, three decades. They say "Yeah, I have had one hygienist yearly for 40 years." "Really dude? How many new patients do you get a month?" "Oh, 30." So you have 30 coming in the front door, 30 coming out the front door, it doesn't matter if your are corporate dentistry, private, it doesn't matter who you are, every time you get a new patient coming in shaking your hand, someone else is waving goodbye out the backdoor and leaving you.

Robin: That is true. It always amazes me, Howard, because the typical solo practice that I might work with, I will find out their active patient count, it is now always accurate, but it is always close. I hear the number 1200 all the time, but like you said, they are getting 30, 40 new patients a month, but that number ... They send me their database from marketing, it never goes up! It stays right around 1200, so I always think about that and that is part of the reason too that I don't really like to help a practice with marketing if they are coming in the front and going out the back because it is not doing them a service, so that is why it is so important.

That is why our friend Linda Miles says to develop these relationships with our patients. Everything is our relationships. If we can have solid relationships with our patients, we are going to retain many more patients in your practice.

Howard: Who is calling your consulting network. The problem you have right here, if you just look at it, these dentists are all alone, they practice by themselves, they are in the car listening to you, there is not even anyone else in the car and they just never know "Am I that person that a consultant can help me? I think I am doing good because I made $150,000 last year. I think I am good.", but you have a completely different advantage because you see hundreds of offices, decades of seeing multiple offices, so how do you transfer what you see to this individual listening to you? She is driving to work right now and you have 35 different specialties, what are problems that you can solve and describe what these problems are so that when she is driving to work, she is saying "Oh, yeah. Yeah, that is my office. I would love to have that fixed."

Robin: Well, I will tell you what I am hearing a lot of now, are a lot of and in the last year, year and a half, two years, I am hearing a lot of doctors that are planning to sell their practice or retire in five years and they want to start planning for that?

"What do I need to do? I want to get my ducks in a row, I want to plan for five years, I want to ramp up my production so my practice value is more. I want to look at how am I going to bring an associate or partner in, maybe have a ready made buyer." I am getting a lot of that. 

Another one is team issues. People conflict within the team, I get that sort of thing. Of course, because a lot of them know me from marketing practices that typically want to grow their practice, what do we suggest as far as an approach for that?

It really, it is across the board. It can be really ... My hygiene department is really not producing, I want to add a hygienist, I want to implement a perio program, how can you help me do that? It could be like what Christine does too, as far as billing and coding, lot of people are wanting to add medical billing to their practice and I have learned so much from spending time and talking with Christine on the medical billing side, I was blown away by what can be done with medical billing, so it is across the board, I would say. I am getting all kinds of things, but a lot of them that are planning to retire in the next three to five years and really want help with that.

Howard: See, I ... Me personally, may be just me, They said the worst thing you can do in business is project your own bias onto the market place, but to me it seems that when you have an exit strategy, it is a red flag of something else going on. It is depression, you hate your team, you don't like what you are doing. 

Look on Shark Tank, when they ask you what you do for money, if you say that you plan on selling this business in five ... If you show an exit strategy MarK Cuban, the billionaire, on it says "You already have a exit strategy, your heart is not in it. I'm out." 

I look at dentistry as a vocation not occupation, and everybody who was legends, in my book, whether it is Thomas Edison, they died at their workbench lab still doing research. Tesla, these guys were doing research the last day of their life. Sam Walton was found dead at his dead at his desk. In politics, France's president, Mitterrand, was found dead at his ... When someone tell me "Yeah, I am going to walk away from this whole thing in five years.", I am like "Dude, that is messed up."

Robin: A lot of them aren't happy, though, Howard. [crosstalk 00:27:01]

Howard: Why are they not happy and don't you think that they should try to get happy instead of trying to exit and take their same baggage to the next career they go into?

Robin: You know how they can get happy? Is with good leadership. Put a team in place, great leadership, develop leaders within their practice and they can be hands off, they can do the clinical.

The practice that I was in for 16 years, I mean, it was incredible, I had the best leader and didn't know it because he developed us as leaders and he delegated and trusted us and he had it made. He still ... He is in his 70s still loving dentistry and that is key.

Howard: I also want to know don't even know why they want to sell the business and retire, why don't you keep the business? I still think the most interesting business story I ever learned was in '87. I came in here and I met this 80 year old lady who had four offices and I went and met her and we were talking and learning her story. Long story short, she was Jewish, so she left Germany when Adolph came into power and when she came into the United States, they wouldn't recognize her dental degree so she couldn't practice dentistry, but she was smart as a whip and said "Okay, so I can't do the dentistry, but I can hire a dental office, I will just hire me a dentist", and she had four offices, north, south, east and west.

She was like 80 years old, they each were doing over a million dollars and that woman was having more fun in her life and it just looks like ... Say a dentist says "Well, I want to retire in five years because my back is hurting me, or my neck is hurting me, or something like that." I still don't understand why you wouldn't keep your business and hire an associate and sit there and say "I have a goal where every year I am going to work an hour less and take home a dollar more and this many years "... 

Like right now, my dental ... I don't have to go in and do the dentistry. I am 53 years old, I don't have to. Why do you think they are not happy? Do you think it is mostly the staff they are with, the team, they don't delegate, what do you think it is?

Robin: They don't like the business end of it. They don't like dealing with the financial end of it, they don't like when patients reject them and don't accept treatment. They don't like when they have to manage the team, when there is conflict with the team. The whole business side. That is what I see of the most part, I think they love ... Most of them love the clinical dentistry, but the other part is when they are presenting treatment, they are doing small things, doing a crown here, fillings here.

I am surprised, because again, the practice I was in we did huge, huge restorative cases, full mouth restorative cosmetic, perio treatment, everything. We referred all the specialty out, but everyone was restored beautifully and we were able to sell those cases and it wasn't so much selling, we believed in the dentistry and saw what it did, but I think when they get that rejection, or they really are not that good or not that great treatment coordinator to present the treatment, then they are doing all those little stuff and they are running around all day long and they are tired and, like you said, their back hurts, they are frustrated, they feel rejected. I think that is a big part of it, honestly, and it is not rocket science to change that.

Leslie: I believe, Robin, and you heard me this week, we should start looking at the positive, because there is always going to be a negative no matter what we do, but there are positives in everything we look at and when I heard doctors say "Oh, I don't want to deal with the government, I don't want to deal with the Affordable Care Act." You don't have to anything, but what you do have to do is to be happy and look at "What is the positive in this for me, for my patients, for my team?", because if you are happy, your team will be happier. 

They will reflect your mood and your stance. If they don't care about safety, and Leslie correct me, nobody in the office is going to care about safety. They are just going to come in, do what they have to and leave, and that is a reflection of not being happy with your self and then it goes into our business and there is something ... You are right Howard, there is an underlying issue if you can't be happy 90% of the time because life is short and, God, I am older than all of you and everyday I look at "What would I do if I didn't go to work?", and I probably would be crazy. 

AS much as they say I am crazy working and traveling, I would miss it because I love what I do. I absolutely love what I do, and I think that is the big difference between the world of success and the world of non-success. It is your own individual happiness with what you do everyday.

Howard: One of my biggest complaints, and Leslie saying "When do I get to talk", one of the biggest complaints I have with dentists is when they say dentistry is multi-vector and I work with a lot of specialists", they usually mean nine dental specialists.

When you tell me that your office is TMJ, the first thing I do, I call a [spade 00:32:08] "Okay, show me the referral pad to your psychologist that you refer these people to that are all stressed out, grinding their teeth (mimics grinding while growling), and if you can't see that there is a brain attached to those teeth ... That is the same thing that I see with those dental consultants. 

A lot of dental consultants, when they start talking to a dentist, they have to be able to look at this dentist and say "You know what? There might be something else going on, you might have some depression." Or "This might be at home with your spouse." Or "You know what? Your kid ... Something happened to one of your kids."

I know a dentist, and I know a dentist ... The worst story in the world. The teenager wrecks and dies in a car. I know another dentist who almost lost his practice because is six year old daughter died of leukemia, and that was just going through that that the practice just ran into the ground, because they didn't care, they were completely fried.

Do you oftentimes, when you are working with a dentist, do you look behind the curtain and say "You know, I think you need to work out the issue with your child had died, or you are divorced or something to get your head on right, so you can approach this dental office?"

Robin: We often say that we feel like psychologist because we do and sometimes we get caught in between the spouses' wars and all kinds of things, so definitely that happens. At least in my experience.

Howard: The biggest spouse war can be solved in five minutes. Just look at the spouse and say "Do you want to be working in here?" And she says, 99% of the time "No! He makes me. I want to be home with my three kids, but he makes me and I put them in daycare." You turn to the husband "So, when you were making out in the back of the car you asked her if she was going to be your office manager?" 

How does marrying a woman translate to an office manager? That leads into my ... That is what I said to every spouse at the dinner table. "Do you want to run the dental office?" 95 times out of 100 "Hell no", and then I just turn to the dentist "Dude, man up. You are an idiot. Let her go. Let her go do what she wants to do. You focus on you." 

Tell me this, if you got out with six dentists, half of them will say "I don't believe in office managers." The other half say "I do." It always seems like the half that does, their practices are twice as big and their net is twice as big. Do you think of a dentist who just wants to do clinical and they are not interested in HR and listening to the team and the team huddle and insurance and billing and all that kind of stuff, they either just say "Okay, you married me. You were dumb enough to marry me, you come to work with me and fix that." Or do you believe in an office manager ... Can that solve all your problems if you bring in a rocking good office manager

Robin: I think it is a good start, because you ... I mean, you got to have a good team all around. Front office, back office, hygiene department. You got to have leaders in your practice and I definitely believe in an office manager and that is somebody they can count on when, like you said, when you are not in the office. 

You know things are getting done the way that you want them done. You know that they are looking at the production and collection and your patient goals an doing something about it to meet goals. You know that they are leading your practice. It is your support team, otherwise ... The dentists that don't have office managers, or if you want to call them leaders within their practice, they are constantly pushing their team.

The ones with good leaders in their practice? The leaders ... Everyone is going together, they are pulling the doctor along sometimes when he needs it. I know the practice I was in when he was going through hard times, I would come in and go "You know you are just not focused and we got to get this focused because we got to make this happen. We got this many more days left in the month and we got to make it happen." You have a team, it is not just the doctor trying to make things happen on their own.

Howard: It all comes down to people. It is people, time, money.

Robin: Yes.

Howard: I always tell every dentist "If you get the team right, everything else takes care of itself." Same thing if you are watching the NFL on Sunday. If you got the best quarterback, the best tight end, the best running back, if you got all the best players, somewhere by the end you are going to find a way to win the game and, by God, if your quarterback isn't any good, if your wide receiver can't catch a ball, if your lineman can't make a tackle, it is just so ...

When you go into an office, what percent of the time do you think it is an HR issue that is standing between now and your goals and success is really HR?

Robin: Probably 75% of the time.

Howard: So this dentist, talk to her. She is driving to work, it is an hour commute, she has only got 25 more minutes until she gets to her office, what is your HR advice from doing HR for decades?

Robin: Well, one of the problems ... What? Go ahead.

Leslie: Well, I wanted to chime in before we go to the problem is that we need to equip people with the tools they need to be rock star office managers or HR people or infection control or OSHA coordinators and there are tools out there, there is training resources, there is organizations like ADOM and like OSEP, that can give our team members the tools that they need, so that not only do they have the confidence to go forward "I am doing the right things", but they also have resources to reach out to other people, who are just like themselves, in other offices across the nation that can share their ideas and tools and maybe even have the wherewithal to say "You know, doctor, I think we need to bring in somebody to help us with telephone skills. I need someone to help me with collections", or " I need someone to help me with how to set up and organize the back office and the OSHA books."

People don't know what they don't know until they get the information in front of them and they say "Oh, that is what is missing, I need some help with this."

Howard: [crosstalk 00:37:59]People always know what they know, they will never know what they don't know. I always imagine taking my iPhone and walking up to a person back in Salem 100 years ago and say "Hey, if you talk into this little receiver, you can talk to your mom in the next county." They would have known you were a witch and they would have drowned you. They just never ever know what they don't know.

I want to ask you specifically to ADOM. This dentist is driving to work and here is the number one complaint I hear. Half of the dentists in America, about 60% of the dentists, practice in 117 metropolitans, where 51% of Americans ... I say 60% live in the 117 largest metropolitan towns.

The other half, about 40% of the dentists, live where the other half of Americans live, in these 19,022 small towns and they just say "Leslie, Robin, Christine, Come on, it sounds like I have 5,000. I got the smartest person in this entire town. The runner up was the greeter at Wal-Mart."

Then this dentist, she is thinking "I see this ADOM and I see these mostly women going through and getting their " ... My office manager is a man by the way, but going through and getting their fellowship at ADOM" Is that a smart move, is that worth the resources? I am in Parsons, Kansas, Shirley is all I got, she doesn't have any training, there is no dental school in Parsons, Kansas, there is no dental assisting academy, there is nothing out here. Is it worth the money to say "Look, your goal is you are going to get your fellowship in ADOM. Talk about that, is what a worthy investment?

Robin: I personally think it is and I actually know ADOM quite well because I work with Heather since she started ADOM and I know a lot of the office managers that do participate in ADOM, they have an incredible online forum, and this isn't a commercial for ADOM by any means, but it is the truth. They have a great forum, so when an office manager is in a little town and feel like they don't have a resource to turn to, that forum is there all day long and they got their membership, I think it is around 2000 now. 

They got all those office managers that want to help each other, jump on and go "Oh, I have this experience." Or "I have this." Or "Yeah, I worked with that company and they were great." Or "We tried that and that didn't work, but this worked for us." Just that networking that they have with one another and their conference and their webinar and their materials offers ... It is constantly information for the office managers. I think it is a great organization.

Howard: Can you email Heather to tell her I want her to come on here and explain the whole program to these dentists about how they can invest resources? These kids come out of a $250,000 invested in themselves in student loans, to become a dentist and sometimes you got to sit there and look and you say "Okay, I like Charlene. I think she is worth the investments and I want to invest the time, money. I know I am going to have to do a lot of things. Fly her places, whatever, but I want her ... And go through the fellowship program with me." 

Are you going to do that?

Robin: Sure. [crosstalk 00:41:06]

Howard: Tell her also I want a survey for Dental Town Magazine. I want to do a survey, there are 2000 office managers and I want you to ask them "What percentage of the dentists are crazy?", and then I want to have some research that I can show you guys. "Look! Look here is the research! It is at 86%!"

What do you think the percentage will come, if you survey those 2000 office managers, what percent of the dentists would you say they would say that we are crazy?

Robin: You know, Howard, I would never say that they are crazy, because they won't want to work with us. I don't want to offend them.

Howard: Oh, my God. Well, the reason ...

Robin: You do fit a certain profile, I will say that.

Howard: Well, if someone was sitting next to you in an airplane and said "What is a dentist like? Describe a dentist." How would you describe a dentist?

Robin: Oh, boy. Christine, or Leslie, why don't you take that one?

Leslie: Well, I would think that this is a person who, obviously, is a caregiver, otherwise would not have gone into school to the healing arts, but also a person that does have some entreprenurial, because you got to have a team, you got to have a building, you got to have supplies, you got to know how to balance all of that and it would be someone that, hopefully, would be able to communicate well with people, including people that the dentist relies on to support their business.

People person, number one, would be a big attribute.

Howard: Yeah, that would be a big asset, but that is not what they get. [crosstalk 00:42:32] This is the bottom line, because there are two dentist schools in my own back yard.

When I went to college, if I had joined a frat, had a girlfriend, had a date once a month, or a week, or whatever, and was well rounded and made As, Bs and a couple of Cs, I would have never got accepted to medical school, dental school, law school. My floor had 88 boys on that floor and 4 of us got in dental school.

You know what we did every night? We sat there ... Every night I heard this, every single night, I heard this "Ping. The library will be closing in 10 minutes.", and that is when we knew it was midnight and then we would walk back to our dorm, wake up at 6:00 the next morning. 

I didn't have a car or a date in all of undergrad or the first three years at dental school. I went seven years of my life without a date or a car. We are all geeks. That is how we got in. We sat in a library and we mastered geometry, trig and physics so we got a dental degree. We were the furthest group from people skills you would ever find. I mean, dentists don't even have enough personality to become an accountant! They are happiest when they are alone in their closet and it is sad because ... We were talking about earlier when patients were coming from other dental offices or whatever, and I am trying to figure out why they left my buddy and one of my best friends who is a dentist right across the street, or up the street, or I know all these guys, we hang out in bars and watch football games. 

It is always a communication breakdown. They are always telling me a story ... It is like "Dude, I have known this dentist for 25 years. There is no way he could have said this.", and I am back there on my iPhone calling him and he is like "Well, I said this." I say "Well, you know what she heard? She heard this.", and he is saying "Really? That is what she said? Is she crazy?" I'm like "No Dude, you are crazy. You are crazy! The older Americans are crazy, trust me, you are crazy, they are not."

It is always a people issue and it seems like every dental I see crushing it, the first thing you know it, you call on the phone, the person answering it is just all personality and congenial and warming. You walk in, it is all personality, then when you walk into the other dental office, you call the other dental office "Can you please hold?", and when you walk in there, they have a sliding glass door and you are just like "That is why I am not a dental consultant, because I wouldn't know where to start." It is like "Dude, this place is so dysfunctional? Where would you even begin? I think we should burn it down and call the fire department, see if we can get some insurance money."

How do you turn around a company where the dentist wants to take 20 hours of bone grafting courses and he won't allow his hygienist to talk to the patient because that is illegal because she is diagnosing and treatment planning.

Robin: Howard, those people don't hire us. Those dentists aren't the ones ... They are not our clients. Linda and I have had this conversation so many times. It is the dentists that are doing well that want to continue to do better that hire consultants. It is the ones that really need us, we never hear from them.

Howard: I know,  [crosstalk 00:45:31] I look at all my friends like who has the greatest practice I have ever seen on most of the fronts? I would have to say it is Jerome Smith in Lafayette, Louisiana and he has a consultant coming in every year and I have an awesome. I have had so many consultants come in over the last 28 years and then you find the person who is just miserable, who would benefit the most, and they have never used a consultant ever. It is just crazy.

Everyone who doesn't need it and is already rich and successful are bringing them all in and we all believe the same thing. All of us successful dentists believe that there is no way a consultant could stay in business in the small little industry of dentistry where they are not making a return on investment. They got a happy customer somewhere, they go by word of mouth referral and all of us know that if you give a consultant a dollar, before the end of the year, you are going to get the dollar back in more money, so it is just like a return on investment. Just like "I want to make more money, I want to be more successful, I want to do less, delegate more, I want to have an easier, more well run ... I want to have a Mercedes-Benz, Rolex watch dental office that always works. I don't want a Chevy, I don't want a Ford, I don't want a Chrysler or a Buick.

All the successful people use all the consultants and all that people that would just ... Oh, my God, it would be their lifesaver, they are just trying to save money, and it is the same thing.

It is the same thing ... Do you notice this when you go to conventions? When you are lecturing to a room, there is 300 people There is 150 people on the right side of the aisle and 150 on the left. One the right side it is like 1 dentist, it is like 10% dentist and then all of their staff. No, a couple of receptionists, a hygienist or two, two or three assistants.

The other side of the room, it is just all dentists who are saving money coming by themselves and the group on the right, every one of those dentists takes home twice as much net income as the group on the left and everyone on the left is saving money by leaving their staff at home and going to the seminar by themselves.

How do you talk to that dentist?

Christine: That is the biggest issue. I teach at NYU and one of the stories I bring up, Howard, coming to your office, when I first started in dentistry, and watching your team in action and it was an eyeopener for me that you allowed people in to see the good things, the things that worked, the things that don't work and how do you make it work and that, to me, is about when they leave school, when they teach these graduation students, I remind them that they made an investment, but that investment is just the beginning of the investment and when they go to set up a practice or when they go to work for somebody, they have to continue to grow. 

They have to continue to invest because without that, you will not be successful. You will be the miserable dentist in the office and I just believe that if you keep learning, there is a special thing about the people that want to keep learning and are open to hearing a different way of doing something and I think working with Robin and Leslie, that is the biggest thing that we get is that we don't have to be perfect, but we love learning from each other as much as we love giving to those clients.

You are right, those are the ones that make the money. They may have invested in us, but they are happier and then able to make more money and their teams are happier because are are giving them tools to learn.

It is amazing to me how many doctors put up a computer system and then won't pay for training.

Robin: Or won't utilize it, right.

Christine: To utilize it! It is like it mind blows me. Sometimes when I start with an office, half of the consulting isn't coming from me, it is setting up training with their computer programs, listening to their phone calls, having the ability to see what they know and where could we help them grow. I think they find it fun if the doctor gives them time and the ability to learn it and that is when the whole team grows, so I think that that is a big proponent also and I like the team training better than the individual meetings for the exact reason you just said Howard.

If the doctor goes to a meeting alone or the team member goes to a meeting alone, they come back with that information, but they don't know how to share it. They have to give it to each other.

Howard: I think what you said is you were shocked about ... Well, I forgot how you said, but letting you come in see what works, what doesn't work whatever.

Christine: Yeah.

Howard: I still think that the successful people ... I think the personality trait I am looking for is humility because I think if you are arrogant, you don't want anybody to see that you flunked this task or you don't have an OSHA manual or you have something wrong and they don't want anybody to see it, so they close the door.

If you are successful, you are humble so you listen to your staff. You are humble, you listen to your patients. You are humble so you bring in a consultant and you totally have enough self esteem to be able to write someone a money and they they come in and say "Dude, you are doing it all wrong.", and you are all like "Okay, well learn me, school me, educate me."

By the way, when they have already ... And they are always complaining they already invested all this money in their student loans and they are fixated on that number until they get their first divorce then that number looks minuscule. That number looks like a rounding error. I graduated $87,000 in student loans and my divorce cost me 43 times more, so your student loans is just a warm up.

Yeah, it is just humility, it is just saying "Hey.", an that is what ... If you are listening to this, that is what you need to be hearing. You need to be hearing it. Quit being an arrogant, know-it-all dentist. Just because you got an A in calculus, physics and geometry, just because you know 23 ATTP come out of glucose on the Krebs Cycle, doesn't mean you know how to run your business. These people, if you give them a dollar, you are going to get a dollar and penny back minimum and you might even get two dollars back.

By the way, how do these people ... Of the three, give them your contact number. Why should they ... Give them a pitch, we have been here 40 ... how much time do we got? We are down to 9 minutes. Give them your pitch and your contact information of what problem you would solve. Go across the board for three in a row.

Robin: Go ahead Christine.

Christine: Oh, okay.

My email is My number is 914-450-2906. I know that when I go into an office, one of the first things I look at is ... I don't ask what they do, I look at the codes that they use and pretty much know what type of programs they are running and how I can help implement at higher quality of treatment just by looking at their codes. [crosstalk 00:52:44]

Howard: Is this all done with you online or do you physically ...

Christine: I do a lot of that online because they send me reports. Similar to Robin, I look at where they are at before I even go into their office, so I could tell them in advance where I can help them and where I would concentrate on for them to see an investment pretty quickly in the consulting world and then we move on to adding the OSHA, the marketing, because if they don't have something to say with being successful, they just think we are there to sell them more and more stuff and I want them to see [crosstalk 00:53:31]

Howard: How much does this person listening to you in their car have to pay for a consultation? I mean for you to log into ... Do you log into their computer? Is that what you do?

Christine: Sometimes I log in and sometimes they prefer to send me their reports.

Howard: [crosstalk 00:53:46]How much does that cost for a diagnosis and treatment plan for them to send you their reports or let you log in and ...

Christine: $500, that is it.

Howard: $500?

Christine: I send a big report with all of their statistics on it and highlight, not only what they did, but what their fee schedule is in their zip code so that they know where they lie on the scale from 40% to 90% because if you do work with insurance companies, and your fees are too low, you will never get a raise. Ever, and that is one of the big concerns with a lot of practices. "Well, I am getting the same fee for the last five years." "Well you haven't looked at your fee."

Howard: What is the most common $500 fee in dentistry? What clinical procedure costs $500?

Christine: [Compuchem Passage 00:54:37] is $500.

Howard: Okay, for the price of two fillings, Christine could dial into your computer. For the price of two fillings, I mean, you could do that ... I have had a yard service my whole life because I would rather stay at the office and do one more filling than get a weed eater and mow my yard, especially when it is 118 degrees and I am a bald, albino Irishman out there working on my melanoma.

Robin, what ... Give your pitch. Why should one of my listeners call you and what could you do for them and how does that go about?

Christine: Sure. Dental Consultant Connection, we talked about that a little bit, we have created this group of about 35 phenomenal, cream of the crop, speakers and consultants in dentistry. The way they can get a hold of us is on our website, which is They can do an analysis, the ones listening to your podcast now, can do the analysis at no fee and what it is is basically we are collecting their information, their numbers, how many hygienists they have, production, collection, new patients, how much insurance they do.

It is a pretty comprehensive analysis that really shows us an initial picture of their practice. Normally that is $795, but we are offering it at no fee and then we will followup with a call to go over that, to address any initial concerns they have in their practice.

Then, from that point, then I connect them to the appropriate consultant that I feel can best serve them and we set up a conference call. They can get all that, and get the initial call with the consultant, at no fee. It really makes it easy for them and I don't want it to be that we are pitching dental consulting, because really just want to work with the practices that want to get stronger and better and grow their practices, so that is probably the best way to ...

Howard: If you are listening out there, there is just some dead giveaway variables that just track success. Number one, not being born in the United States. Number two, your mom and dad own their own business. Number three, people who take 100 to 300 hours of continuing education a year so they always ... Because you know what you know and you don't know what you don't know and when you are going to CE, it is not so much even the lecture you are listening to, it was the lunch that you sat next to a guy at the lunch for an hour and he started telling you about stuff.

You went to an implant course and then during lunch he is telling you about endo or practice management or marketing or you are out there talking to a guy in the vendor booth and that is why I am so passionate about by podcasts, is because I know if I can trick this crazy dentist who knows it all, he is a "Damn it, I got an A in geometry, how dare you think I don't know something." I can do trig in my head, but if it is a free podcast and he sits there saying "I just want to listen to this, I don't want to listen to talk radio." Especially this years since it is going to be a horrible year for talk radio because it is going to be one subject, the election. How wants to listen to that crap for a year?

They are just listening to this stuff for free and I am going to trick them out because they can listen to 100 to 300 hours of podcasts for free while they are multitasking on the way to work, so I am just exposing them to people like you and, dude, I am telling you, I don't know a single dentist who takes home $250,000 to $500,000 a year net income who didn't have a lifelong addiction to consultants and continuing education. End of story.

Robin: That is how it was in the practice that I came from. I was in that one practice for 16 years. He flew us all over the country for CE, he brought Abram King and Walter Haley and Dick Barnes. We learned so much from these people. We didn't just go to their seminars, then met them and brought them into our practice to work with us, but we were top 1% in the nation at the time at a solo practice working three and a half days a week and taking about 16 weeks off a year. I know it works.

Howard: Well you know what Robin, seriously? When I saw you on the podcast today, the split second I had saw you, I could tell that you had been Barnes-ified.

Robin: (laughs) How?

Howard: You are just going ... Dick Barnes, he used to call that ... Dennis would come back from his seminar and then go "Man, I just saw Dick Barnes and I have been Barnes-ified."

Robin: Do you know our practice pretty much double after we heard him and he consulted in our practice? This was in the 80s.

Howard: Do you know that about half of the dentists in the United States complain that they have to take 12 hours of continuing education to renew their dental license and they are writing their congressman right now and they just don't ... It is so frustrating that people just know what they know, they don't know what they don't know.

What is the best way to contact you Robin? At

Robin: Yes, that is good and then our office phone number is 727-447-4756 and then I shared our website, it is

Howard: Fantastic. Leslie, you have been on before. You can actually listen to Leslie for an hour on a previous podcast done, what, six months ago?

Leslie: About a year ago Howard. I think it got published six months ago.

Howard: Okay.

Why and how do they contact you and for what?

Leslie: Okay, so people contact me when they are either facing an audit or they are worried that the dental board is going to be investigating them or an insurance company type of investigation, or even OSHA, but again, the people who are afraid and running scared, it is a little too late for them. They can't recreate what they haven't done, so, again, the great offices, the ones that top 5%, 10% of dental offices that think they are doing all the right things, contact me just for confirmation that they are doing well and to improve on whatever they can.

My contact information is leslie L-E-S-L-I-E @lesliecanham C-A-N-H-A-M .com ( When I have ... I am going to make this offer if someone wants to ... If one of your listeners would like to contact me, I will provide ten minutes of free telephone consultation time. I have a toll free number so it doesn't cost any of the listeners anything to get some of my intellectual property for ten minutes. My phone number is 888-853-7543 and I will be happy to respond to any questions for concerns or provide any assistance I can.

I am a firm believer in having checklists, if not for myself. Being in dentistry 44 years, I know that if I start to take a full series of films or images on a patient, I got to start upstairs at one or two, work my way over to 15, 16, go downstairs and take the lower arch back to where I started. If I start in the middle, I lose my way and so I am a firm believer in giving people checklists and charts that they can immediately implement. I give them the information that they need, so that they feel more confident and that they feel that they have value for what the have invested in me.

Howard: Very good. I want to reminder of yours of something very, very serious that Leslie was talking about. I know whenever Robin starts talking about HR and people and team leadership, a lot of dentists say "I don't want to listen to fluff and soft stuff. I want to talk about bone grafting. Do you use BMP, what kind of implant system do you use?" 

They think the most important thing there is is the soft stuff. That is what they call it to me. "Well, that is just soft stuff, that is fluff stuff. Are you drawing blood, are you centrifuging platelets. When you are doing a bone grafting, are you using" ... I am just like "Dude, you are a technician. You should have been an engineer, you should have been programming an iPhone. You don't even get it."

They don't even get it that all the dentists ... You can hire a dentist. As I am talking to you, I got two dentists next door doing all the damn dentistry. Everything they focus on, I can hire a money to do that in five minutes, you know what I mean? 

Back to Leslie, I don't want to mention any names, I don't want to throw anybody under a bridge, but there has been some big hepatitis outbreaks in the dental industry this year and all my friends that know these guys said that these were good ol' boys, they were nice guys, they just had ... They just didn't know what they didn't know and an infection got out and it is horrible and yesterday, for the first time ever, they just sentenced, on that last salmonella outbreak 19 people died, and they just sentenced that guy to 28 years in prison. 

It is no longer "Well, shit happens. Well, okay. We had some dirt and mold somewhere." I am telling you, in a ever-shrinking world of social media an texting and cell phones and Facebooks, these infection outbreaks have ... The Centers of Disease Control have known that 300,000 Americans die each year from an infection they caught at a healthcare provider and they are zeroing in on this and, Dude, your life will be ruined if all of a sudden they find out that "Oh, yeah. Those three people that died or had to have liver transplant? Yeah, they all had one thing in common, they all went to your office in the last week.", and their epidemiological models know that 300,000 Americans die from an infection they caught from a healthcare provider and those days are over. 

OSHA is no longer "I will get around it it.", OSHA is that "If you screw up and you have Hepatitis A, B, C, whatever, whatever, whatever in your office, it is going to be a deal breaker." It is like going out and shooting a lion in Africa. Those days are gone where you can just quietly fly to Africa, shoot a lion and put his head above your fireplace. That just doesn't work in a world of Facebook anymore.

On that note, we are in overtime, it is an hour an three minutes. I want to thank you so much and I ... My biggest error on these podcasts ... I mean, I did 12 podcasts in a row just on implants, and I know that is a bias of mine, but if you got 35 rocking hot dental consultants, I swear I will do an hour with each one of them because I am a dentist.

I am the first one to admit that I am crazy, I am dentist, I would rather pull four wisdom teeth than play golf any day. I would rather do a molar root canal than go on a cruise. I love that stuff and I think the greatest feeling I get in life is when someone comes in and they are in a toothache and they are crying and they are swollen and they are scared and whatever and I can fix all of that. I love it. I am like when a fireman sees a house on fire, he doesn't want to tell anybody but he loves it.

It is obviously bad for the family and all that kind of stuff, but a fireman wants a fire, a policeman wants to catch a bad guy, I want the emergency toothache from hell, but we have to pay attention to the other side and that is what you represent and, honestly, what I have done ... I have got Laurie [Zolowski 01:05:49], he has been with me for 20 years. I still have my first dental assistant, Jan, of 28 years, so my long term team pretty much does what you do, but I know I have to be focused on other stuff, so if you want to deliver 35 in a row, I will do it. I will just give these guys ... You are going to sit though 35 hours of everything that you don't want to hear and if you just force yourself [crosstalk 01:06:15] 

Yeah, you need to hear. We want to pull wisdom teeth, we don't want to learn about insurance billing and coding and OSHA and how to have a morning huddle. You didn't go to school eight years for that stuff, you went to school eight years to pull a wisdom tooth, to do a root canal. You want a fire, you want to chase a bad guy, but if you were to deliver that ... I also think that it would be the first curriculum we ever did in Dentaltown where ... Dentaltown, all those courses are onesies. Someone will go in and they will do an hour, but if you ever did a curriculum from A to Z and said "Here is a continuum and here is the deal. It is going to be one hour from each of them. It is going to be 35 hours long. We promise you if you sit through that for 35 hours, you will at least know what you don't know."

Robin: Mm-hmm (affirmative), true. It is true, we will get on that.

Howard: Alright, well ladies, thank you so much. By the way, This is ... I have always only had one guest and you are my first time ... We pioneered ... My son Ryan, thank you Ryan, figured this out for me where we got three people at one time. [crosstalk 01:07:12]

Christine: Yeah, thanks Ryan!

Howard: Alright, Ryan!

Robin: Yeah, this is cool. 

Christine: Alright, Ryan! Thank you!

Robin: When do we get to see it?

Howard: Okay ... What did you say? When will we?

Robin: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Howard: Oh, I have no idea.

Robin: Or hear it.

Howard: No idea. How long Ryan? One or two months he says.

Robin: Oh, come on.

Howard: I don't know, but anyway. Okay, thank you so much and you guys have a rocking hot day. [crosstalk 01:07:37]

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