Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
How to perform dentistry faster, easier, higher in quality and lower in cost. Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dentistry-uncensored-with-howard-farran/id916907356
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1482 Howard Klein, President of Lanmark360, on Retaining Patients after the Pandemic : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

1482 Howard Klein, President of Lanmark360, on Retaining Patients after the Pandemic : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran

10/19/2020 3:00:00 AM   |   Comments: 1   |   Views: 80
Howard started his career in the healthcare communications arena working for several prominent New Jersey-based hospitals and healthcare systems before joining Lanmark360 in 1999 as Public Relations Manager. Over the course of five years, Howard received five promotions within the Agency, with his fifth being the most prominent position of all, President. Three short years later he took over full leadership as Owner. With an above-and-beyond approach that he applies to all aspects of his work coupled with his “no is not an option” philosophy, and an extensive background in building and repositioning brands from the ground up, Howard has contributed to the success of many prominent companies including industry giants such as Dentsply Sirona, Colgate and Wrigley.


VIDEO - DUwHF #1482 - Howard Klein


AUDIO - DUwHF #1482 - Howard Klein


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**Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed.

It is just a huge huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing a role model idol and legend to me personally Howard Klein who started his career in the healthcare communications arena working for several prominent new jersey-based hospitals and healthcare systems before joining landmark 360 in 1999 as public relations manager over the course of five years Howard received five promotions within the agency with his fifth being the most prominent position of all president three short years later he took over full leadership as owner with an above and beyond approach that he applies to all aspects of his work coupled with this no is not an option philosophy and an extensive background in building and repositioning brands from the ground up Howard has contributed to the success of many prominent companies including industry giants such as DENTSPLY Sirona Colgate Wrigley landmark 360 specializes in marketing products services and technologies to and through dental professionals and is committed to making lives healthier and it's so funny because over the years people have taken mount Rushmore and made mount Howard more and the first time i saw it out on the internet it was uh me uh you Howard horaks of uh new patients Inc and Howard Goldstein who does the message boards online see a dental town and then i just saw it recently this time it's a Howard Chatillon the great periodontist in Florida uh me you Howie hocks again Howard gold scene again and uh most people don't know this but rich Madow his middle name's Howard so you know you got to throw him in there rich matter with the task but uh i love the i love the joke uh um instead of how are you doing uh Howard are you doing and i got to ask you uh does your mother call you Howard or Howie so my mother calls me Howie yeah growing up my name was primarily Howie and uh you know through college it kind of transitioned to Howard and mostly in the professional world it's Howard but you know probably when i started hitting like 10 years or so in dentistry i think the Howie started to come out more and more so I’m i go by both now Howie or Howard you know one of the one of the guys that um built this company was uh Pete Janicki i mean he ran the whole cell phone he was over a decade he went from a professional baseball what was he for the san Diego uh san Diego padres Andres yeah and i got his baseball card and um but my god whenever he said Howard i never i never knew the whole 10 years he was here if he's talking about me or you were no I’m serious man marketing is bizarre because you've got to understand how a human thinks and if you don't know math um you can't measure it if you don't know biology if you don't know how sapiens think you don't have a chance and guys like you who always know marketing you're always really smart people who know math physics chemistry and biology applied biology how they think how they see things like i don't know um this might be a big distraction but i noticed like today um the California dental association they started their own dental supply company right tds um the dental supply company we had him on the show um the director of that um that was episode uh what episode was that it was um that was episode uh 1163 Michael walrus director of the no supply company but anyway they just they just announced today that they did a deal with uh stan Bergman who's been on the show with henry shine and they're going to do dental supplies direct but i always think it's funny that whenever something like that comes out i know how my homies are going to think and sure enough on the message board it blew up they're saying well I’ve been buying from henry shine for all these years and now they're going to get a better deal here you know or something like that to that says so you got to know the psychology of how you're going to position that because if you're selling to me i think I’m your best customer but then i find out oh if i join a club in every um humans are so complex and it's so uh how you position it and you always tell you we've I’m not gonna say you're now calling but we've always uh met at bars at meetings uh later i don't know what you're talking about okay it might have been might have been Howie horrocks and uh and you always talked about positions doesn't mean it didn't happen i just don't remember but you know you got to talk about positioning and how that works but the other thing that i like about you is we've been in this industry too long i mean I’m so long that every rodeo we see it's the second or third time we've seen it like um like take the um consolidation breakup cycle i mean when i got out of a college there were um 100 every town had a dental supply company and every town had their own breweries like in dental school you know i'd never go to a bar because a drink was like five bucks because you could go to the store and buy a queso weedleman for 2.99 it's like i don't want an umbrella in a fancy straw i want the whole case of beer and then and then and there was a dental supply company in every town and then it started the consolidation and about in the middle about 15 years ago it was like just basically shine Patterson Burkhart Benko and a few little ones and just Budweiser Coors and miller light and a few little ones and then it starts the uh once it gets all consolidated then the best idea is well let's break it all up and now we're back to the beginning where there's a dental supply company uh they're starting all the time there's groups everywhere and um and now the microbrews are back so we just go from consolidating to deconsolidating and i and it makes me wonder about the dsos because unfortunately i get a lot of emails I’m a journalist and when you know I’ve owned my own media company since 1994 and if you have a source uh you know if you can't quote it you can't quote it but um there's some dsos that are very highly leveraged in the private equity market and so i almost wonder if the um get a big line of credit started with an 87 of the orthodontic centers of America where he realized that you know the house that sells the three bedroom two bath the NFL players go bankrupt because when they break their ankle they can't sell their 19 bedrooms nine car garage you know it's just a liquid and and uh uh lazarus knew that um if you had an orthodontic practice for sale for a million it was liquid but if you had one where two or three or four it was an illiquid asset so you got a big line of credit and started consolidating orthodontic centers of America then it went bankrupt and fell and then the cycle was back and now it's back again so now i almost wonder um if this market tanks if this should go south and i and i it has to because i graduated from high school idiot crash i graduated 87 may 1187 in the market tank 133 days later black monday when it dropped 26 percent we watched the y2k bubble pop we watched lehman's pop and this is this this market has no legs i mean it's the only thing it's attached to is a dream and it makes me wonder if the dsos when you talk to their captains they obviously think linear like well i went from one office to ten to a hundred to a thousand to a million we'll we'll all be working at cvs and walgreens uh but they don't understand the business cycle which my favorite austrian economist who got the nobel prize shooter said the business cycles what goes up must come down and it's always it's always a wave so i wanted to ask you for my own selfish purposes where is dentistry at well what i what i could say Howard is um certainly by far I’m not an economist but i I’ve been in the industry uh directly for you know coming up on on 21 22 years now and uh you know i have dentistry in my blood my father is a retired dental lab technician he ran a fairly large lab in new york for you know more than half of his life and i spent a good part of my life growing up in that lab and the one thing about the dental industry that stands true is it is a resilient industry and everyone always pulls together and everyone always gets through even the hardest of the times so i have no reservation at all that this industry will definitely you know survive and prosper i mean we're all going through challenging times right now but between the trade and then between the you know professionals themselves and everyone pulling together we're we're going to get through this and we're already seeing it happen um you know consumers patients they have a lot of confidence in their dentist and in their dental teams they have very close relationships and trust with their hygienists we recently actually conducted some research with consumers and the some of the some of the feedback that we got was really really really comforting uh you know not not only are patients ready and eager to get back to their dentist but they they also really view oral care as something that's very important and i think that that's an indication of the great work that we've all done together to help patients realize how important it is to see their dentists and their dental teams regularly and to also have good you know home care and uh but you know part of that is uh just this statistic that is really amazing in that we asked patients what they were going to do first when the pandemic was over and we we compared going to the dentist to other important lifestyle events and consumers actually viewed going to the dentist as being more important than going to get their haircuts after the pandemic and they were going to go see their dentist before they were going to get their hair cut and you know that was just amazing to me because throughout the pandemic i mean everyone you talked to every zoom meeting you went in everybody made comments about their hair everyone had hats on people couldn't wait to get back to their hairdressers to get back to their barbers to get their hair cut people were cutting their hair at home i mean you go onto social media and you saw people you know doing different things having their spouses having their you know boyfriend's girlfriends cut their hair but yet people viewed going to the dentist as more important than getting their hair cut which uh you know for me i thought was a really great indication of the amazing work that the industry has done as a whole between the trade and between the professionals to really drive home the point to patients how important it is to keep your regular visits and you know we did see a huge huge huge drop i mean it didn't take research to know that people were not going to see their hygienists going to see their dentist when dental practices across the nation were closed and uh you know even when some of the practices state by state started to open slowly patients were were returning but uh you know at this point um i mean we are seeing production growing and getting back to its its normal levels and uh you know the industry on the on the trade side just you know it's pushing forward and uh we've seen you know some some innovation has come out in the industry as a direct result of you know the learnings that came from having to practice during a pandemic and i I’m pretty confident that we're going to continue to see some more innovation new product introductions new technologies new ways of treating patients that all came as a result of learnings from being forced to do things differently Howie don't you think that was a little passive-aggressive to bring up hair like nine times when uh I’m sitting here and then and then you brought up girlfriends which is even more passive with my girlfriend last night and she says are you cheating on me and i said now you're starting to sound like my wife and uh so uh my gosh um you said so many um so many profound things but i i really have been um liking your um i i was reading on uh some of the work you've been doing and it says uh you were talking about is being able to return to your dentist more or less important than other things and the dental appointment came in at 3.19 the haircut was 2.79 and i why do people need a haircut when they could just shave their head and look gorgeous uh pet grooming 1.68 uh going to restaurants 2.34 that is crazy but um you know i found one interesting thing about your um survey that caught my eye it says um you said you had a survey where 275 consumers was conducted uh about um i died identified drivers and barriers that could impact a patient's willingness to rapidly return to dental practice almost 60 of survey respondents were female and we all know that females make all the dental appointments i mean I’ve had a dental office for 32 years you ask any man like you uh for insurance i need your kid's birthday you're like uh I’m like really you know you know when your kid was born was there a jack-o'-lantern on the front porch or a christmas tree and but the wife always knows she's like oh yeah billy he was born 3 24 you know 61 or whatever and um so females i got um largest edge age segment 45 to 60 that that's the dental driver uh but i thought it was interesting you said the largest income segment um the income segment between 25 000 and 49 000 and i just want to remind all you young kids in dental kindergarten school that the dsos um like especially like heartland aspen um you know they target you know incomes up 60 000 or more and it's aspen of bob fontana that's going where they ain't and he's going to the medicare population and uh my gosh he he's very focused on the lower income um do you think um do you think the dsos and the dentists are correct like when they come out of dental school in arizona they always want to go to rich scottsdale and I’m like dude there's a dentist on every corner in scottsdale but if you go 40 minutes out of town to eloy they still don't even have a dentist and why why is it that um every dentist wants to be ruth chris steakhouse and none of them want to be mcdonald's or burger king i mean why I’m bob fontana he he wants to be burger king i mean he's going right there and he's got his own lab tech i mean uh um i uh lmt should do an article on that you know he's got a lab tech in there and i lost my uncle i lost my uncle to aspen because if he comes to me for free he's got to drop it off in the morning come and i send to a lab and in the afternoon he goes well Howie if i just go to them i just sit in the waiting room and they do it right there and uh you know money's you know it's not about money it's about convenience but uh do you think dentists are targeting um do you think they're too ruth chris and not enough mcdonald's well i think i think uh there's a lot of there's a lot of choice right like i mean when when you say mcdonald's and you compare that to dentistry the first thing that comes to my mind is what we see happening with walmart and the fact that uh you know dental practices are being you know opened in walmarts across the country and if that continues to be as successful as it seems it uh is during its its beginning stages i mean every walmart is going to have a dental practice in it so to me that's your you know mcdonald's of of dentistry and uh i think that there's a i think there's a great need for that i think that there's a patient demographic that is going to find that to be not only convenient but from a cost standpoint i think it's it's wonderful because it helps to increase access and it helps to ensure that you know everyone at all levels you know there's an option for them and uh it helps to make care more affordable and more competitive but you know at the same time um while a lot of people shop at walmart um you know there's still there's still nordstroms everywhere so i think that there's a need for both um to allow choice and uh you know there's some people that can shop at nordstrom's but they just like shopping at at walmart because that's just a better fit for them so you know all in all i think it comes down to you know choice for the patient as well as choice for the professional you know for the for the new students that are graduating and starting practices there are a lot of benefits to joining a dso there's a lot of benefits to um you know going in and working for you know more of a corporate practice like a walmart than you know going right into owning your own business um if if that's what you have an appetite for you know not everybody i think has an appetite for being a business owner and uh you know especially in today's challenging times i think it's getting harder and harder to be a small business owner so um you know these new options i think are very good fit for a lot of the new graduating doctors that are entering the field um but i i i do think that there needs to be a balance maintained and i and i do feel confident that there's always going to be that balance and uh there's always going to be those higher end you know high-tech practices in you know upscale areas and i think there's there's always going to be a need for that yeah but you know that's another great thing about being old besides just having diabetes and i can't see enough typing with my fat thumbs whenever i type in www it always comes out we w-e-e it's like really you're a smartphone you can't you can't figure out that we means wwe but um um you know i how many rodeos have i lived through with walmart going into dentistry uh member sears member you know all that kind of stuff like that um i i think a lot of people um i think unless you're a dentist you just don't get how hard it is to do a root canal a filling in a crown and everybody everybody you know i and as far as the pharmacies the the pharmacists they don't even need to exist i remember the first time i lectured in paris france this guy was telling me that he loads a prescription on their smart card and then they go to an atm machine i said what and he took me and and we did it and my god you know he puts it in and and a bottle comes out and the pills come out of a hopper and a label switch on you open the door and take it out and I’m looking at that machine and it's made right here in scottsdale arizona so when i got back i said well why aren't you here and he goes well why do you think I’m not here it's a trade union it's a labor group and and they're never going to give the state board of pharmacies never going to give us a permission to automate their job but dude try doing that with a root canal how long do you think it'd take that atm machine to find the mb2 get to the bottom get it all cleaned out and uh i i i don't know i i i i think young kids want jobs and i think it takes them five years to get out of school and we graduate 6 000 a year maybe 6 500. so i think there's about a 30 000 young dentists play that want to go take orders from someone else while they're young and learning how to do their basic root you know fillings root canals ground basic stuff but after five years don't you think the mindset of the person who went to eight years of college to be a dentist um really wants to work for you and take orders now there are a lot of personalities that I’ve met and and they're friends of mine out here that have been happy in dsos and the reason they don't want to own their own business because they don't want to give orders they they just that's not their personality type a guy like you is a natural-born leader there's a lot of kids that come out of dental school that are shy and humble and quiet and they couldn't even imagine telling a hygienist you know blah blah blah you know they they'd rather take orders and give orders nothing wrong with that but i i i think i think that there's about 30 000 kids that the dsos get to work with and then as far as how many dentists prefer taking orders versus given orders i'd say it's 80 would rather give orders than take orders um because you can figure that out in their job turnover i mean if they've been out of school five years they've had five different jobs so five different people and everybody talks about the dsos most of those jobs are in private sector the dso hires a lot but there's you know um heartland with a thousand offices when there's 1500 general dentists that work 32 hours a week or more offices they don't even have one percent of the market the majority of these jobs are with small town mom-and-pop family practices and they quit there after a year and they do that five times and it seems like four out of five dentists are only happy until they don't take orders from anybody anymore and then i say okay and now you're gonna go get married really really why did your logic break down I’m just kidding but um so um you probably didn't uh come on the show today to want to talk about dsos and i wanted to talk to you more other things you had on your report you said did you have a scheduled dental appointment that was canceled over 50 percent of respondents fell behind on their dental care due to cancer appointments there was a lot of pent-up demand we they closed us down from um st patrick's day and I’m 100 irish so i didn't find out about it till the next day you know when i woke up and uh sobered up a little bit and then they closed us down on cinco de mayo which i first i thought was great i just went to macayos and started drinking margaritas but two months of nothing that's a lot of pinup demand yeah so when we opened back up we had patients that were so mad that we were closed and um how much of that pent up demand is why the ada is saying we're running at about 70 normal and when that pent up demand catches up are you thinking we're going to have a full slump do you think we're going to flatten out or do you think we're going to keep trending upwards to pre-pandemic levels i you know i hope i hope we keep treading upwards but i i think it you know at minimum it's going to flatten out and get you know back to just you know the steady rates that the industry was running i mean there definitely you know was pent up demand which i think it's a it's a good thing though that you know patients actually realize the importance of returning and that it wasn't just one of those things that went by the wayside um you know there definitely still is a percentage of patients that have not made their appointments and they're not going back to the dentist because they are afraid but they're not just afraid of going to the dentist and you know the hazards that they perceive might come along with that i mean these are the people that also are not going to eat even for outdoor dining these are the people that aren't leaving their homes i mean they're not they're just they're just not ready to get back to life yet and going to the dentist just falls within all the other things that they've put on hold because of their fear of the pandemic um you know and with that we we partnered recently with the dental trade alliance and we put together a series of social media videos and these are social media videos for dental practices to use to communicate to their patients and the message that we're delivering is and when i say where i mean this is a message that comes from the dental practice to their patients we're ready if you're ready and it's it's it's a very simple message that's basically telling the patient we're here for you when you're ready and you know the idea behind that is to not pressure anyone as important as dental care is we don't want to pressure anyone who's not ready to return to return yet but if they are ready to return they can feel good no knowing that you know the practice that they're that they're going to is ready and it's safe and you know equipped to meet their needs and you know just like they're they're getting back to going to eat just like they're you know going to get their haircuts there i go again with the haircuts there you go getting all passive aggressive again you know it's it's time for them to get back to taking care of themselves and taking care of their oral health so those are uh a great series of videos um they're they're completely free not now now you're talking about your your website now so where where are my homies gonna find that that uh those uh videos that's at um um that's at um the dentalgeek.com no i think they're on the dental geek but the direct link is post for patients.com postforpatience.com post for my patients i know it's it's weird how that alzheimer's just slowly starts creating so post post plural um what are my patients there it is there it is yeah and your industry partners is the dental trade alliance so talk about your journey there why um why are you doing this with the dental trade alliance so we this is the second uh series of videos that we did during the pandemic so when the when the pandemic first hit and the practices were closed uh you know we we had we had some available time at landmark 360. about 85 of the work that we do here is all within the dental industry so with so much uncertainty uh there was a lot of the projects we were working on were put on hold and we were you know working with our clients to you know figure out how to pivot figure out how to reallocate funds and um you know see how we needed to react and respond during these times and you know with that we we realized that uh patients were also stuck at home and uh dental practices were closed and we wanted to provide a way for dental practices to stay in touch with their patients so we created a initial series of videos that also was found on that on that same site post for paid for my patients.com and those were videos that were used to stay in touch with patients and they were kind of like fun like lighthearted uh videos that gave very friendly tips on things that you can do while you're stuck at home and uh you know it tied in some of them tied in with oral care and some of it were just some some general tips but it was just a nice way for patients to be reminded of the importance of doing uh good home care during the pandemic while they were stuck at home and kept that line of communication open between them and between their dental practices uh until practices opened again and then this the second uh series of videos came out more recently when dental practices started to to reopen and uh you know our our partnership with the dta um is long-standing we've been a member of the dta and we partnered with the dta on several projects through our company's history and you know probably goes back to uh the great recession i think 2008 2009 and a lot of patients we saw were putting dental care on hold uh due to the due to the poor economy and we launched a consumer campaign with the dental trade alliance then and that was oral healthcare can't wait and that was a very successful campaign that also you know partnered with dentists and hygienists and other dental professionals across the country giving them the tools giving them the resources that they need to get the information out to their patients that oral healthcare can't wait during these challenging times uh so when this pandemic hit that's uh you know when we started to think back remembered that campaign that we did and said how do we do something like that uh to help us all through this pandemic and to you know do our part to give back to the industry so uh contacted our friends at the dta and we were able to mobilize the team quickly and we were able to put our heads together and uh launch launch this awesome campaign so um it's kind of funny because i I’m gonna get all these kids in trouble by their i.t director because i I’ve been to uh post for my patients and it says download it and it's downloaded in a zip file and i don't know what your it guy is but if i open up a zip file ken scott who uh is the programmer in dental town back then the original 1998 he's been a little time he'd probably beat me to death but are you are you are you gonna say live on video that it's okay for me to open this zip file it is it is 100 okay for you to open up that zip file and uh the other way that you also could share the videos without having to download anything is to just simply uh go to the share button and if you hit the share button you could share those directly on your facebook page you could share those directly on your instagram page and you don't have to go through the trouble or the uh potential risk of the first one dude is the haircut you really think I’m gonna share that i just uh really really Howie you think I’m uh I’m that uh so so uh so when you share that on twitter um you're um what's your twitter um what's landmark 360's on twitter so uh our our facebook page and our instagram page we don't we don't part we don't have a twitter page but you could uh go to our facebook page yeah yeah you got a you got a share button towards you got a share button for the um twitter there yeah so we we have the share button for those dental practices that use twitter so we wanted to provide that option okay well I’m uh I’m uh doing it right as we speak so just see if it works yeah and thank you guys for the um um dental town and i seriously i i want to thank my homies i mean uh they uh i mean my god uh 26 000 of you follow me on twitter 20 000 on instagram and 41 000 lincoln thanks for doing that that's uh that's really cool so so they they um so they wouldn't really want to go to dental geek i'll come back to that um but these are all at post for my patients and they have four one's a haircut video hair getting long ready for a cut after that why not make an appointment to see your dentist if you're ready we're ready the second one and um road trip uh tired of staying home when you're ready to get out there make an appointment and get into your dental office we're here for you uh three is restaurant been waiting to eat at your favorite restaurant what else you've been waiting for get back into your routine make an appointment at your dental practice and video number four um do you miss going to the movies at least you can still see your dentist and hygienist make an appointment today it's probably been a while and uh that those are uh some really uh cool videos and um so you made those yes so landmark three the landmark 360 t made those in conjunction with the dta so so i want to i want to ask you um because you know we're dentists we study eight years of you know root canals fillings and crowns you're a marketing guru so my first question is why do you use vimeo file vimeo uh as opposed to like youtube or just upload your own mp4 so exactly explain to vim vimeo and why would a marketing genius like you choose vimeo over at youtube yeah it's just just an easy platform for you know sharing videos and uh playing videos it's just it's just another video player i mean we could have essentially done the same thing with uh youtube but you know our our tech guys chose uh this platform for this particular project and and vimeo tends to be the platform of choice for us sharing you know videos that are then going to be you know shared with others all right well i just uh i just shared all four so if you're driving down the car don't uh don't wreck and make uh make an accent just go to um twitter Howard for ran uh twitter.com just just at howardfran and I’ve shared all uh four of those videos for you i wanted to ask you another question you said that um you said that during this uh time you've had some time off and uh i think i just think you're a really cool guy and so i just want to ask you does dmd stand for doctors of dental medicine or duchenne muscular dystrophy and and and uh why why did you was that something you did in your down time with the jar of hope or and where does that come from yeah thanks thanks so much for uh bringing that up so uh we do have a program in mark 360. it's uh something that's been in place for about six years now and you know our our program is to turn downtime into uptime so anytime any team members have downtime we encourage them to use that downtime towards uptime and that uptime is putting their talent putting their skills putting their expertise towards helping others and towards making a difference so uh with that we adopted a local non-profit organization jar of hope and they are a foundation that is dedicated to finding a cure for dmd otherwise known as the shen muscular dystrophy and uh the founder of that organization is james rapone and his his son has been battling this this devastating disease now for about 11 years and uh our relationship with the with the founder and with the foundation itself grew through the years and at this point in time actually the jar of hope foundation runs its office out of our office and they actually have space within the landmark 360 facility and we help them to organize and promote and market all their events fundraising activities uh build their donor base and I’m a board member on jar of hope so jar of hope is a really wonderful organization committed to this great cause of finding a cure they have uh eight boys right now they're actually going through a study and unfortunately the results are looking very promising and you know that's just one of the many areas that the landmark 360 team chooses to turn their downtime into uptime and you know really do what they can whenever they can to make a difference and just for the people who um don't understand is um duchene muscular dystrophy is that the jerry lewis telethon no no so it's a it's a it's a i mean is it the same disease as the as a jerry lewis telethon it's it's it's relatable in that it's it's a very rare form of muscular dystrophy and uh it affects about 30 000 children in the us and uh primarily boys but it does it does affect girls and uh typically by the age of 20 uh the the uh patients are usually wheelchair-bound and it's it's just it's it's a muscle wasting disease and um you know over time they eventually you know do end up immobile and they end up in in a wheelchair and uh that's been the the big fight for jamesy he's the he's the boy uh that you know jar of hope was founded after jar you know james anthony rafan is actually his initials and that's where the where the jar comes from in jar of hope he's he's you know he's he's fortunately been fighting hard and uh what's his name jar is for uh james anthony refone so he goes r a and there's there's actually there's actually right now as we speak there's a group of six men that are doing a walk from washington d.c to old bridge new jersey they started three days ago and they're scheduled to to make it to their final destination which is all-american ford in ulbridge all-american ford is a very big sponsor and supporter of jar of hope and uh that's their that's their final destination they've been stopping at four dealers along the way and all these ford dealers across the country have uh been doing their part to raise money for for jar of hope and they're they're raising money for these courageous men that are walking from washington dc to old bridge new jersey sleeping outside in tents um that is um gosh darn every time you know i i it doesn't really bother me when old grandpa's i like like um um you know when the other day a great friend um just died he was 92 years old and and it was like one of my friends said um it's hard to feel sad because i mean god dang he lived in 92 great family i mean he was the all-american dream how do you be sad for 92 and i said well you don't be sad he he had a great life and you know all great things coming in that doesn't bother me i mean i was like i was just like you know one to fist bump all my friends that missed him but man when a nine-year-old you see in a wheelchair or a 21 year old and you know the founder of mcdonald's when he died um ray kroc he put all of his money in the middle diseases and it was like md multiple sclerosis all the diseases says it takes you out in your prime he says i don't care um you know if someone dies when they're 100 or 80 or 70 says but what's just killer is in that middle when the life is just getting going and and boom you know it's just destroyed that's uh so I’m good at good at you for that um i forgot to read uh some of those uh other um ads um some of them are even greater i read the top four but number five um video while you're stuck at home stick with your routine brushing at least twice daily helps prevent cavities and don't forget your dog keep going until we see you again and remember your dentist is always there for you uh number six is floss i don't why would you make one on floss when the new york times said that there was no scientific proof for floss and i guess it was just a mystery says your hygienist always knows when you're not flossing now is a good time to do something about it maintain good dental health until we meet again and if you have an issue call give us a call i mean just and you can tell genius because it's just so succinct um i remember listening to uh four comedians um seinfeld and and um three other great ones chris rock and some others they all said the same thing they'd write a joke on monday and the only goal for the next five days tuesday wednesday thursday friday is take one word out of that joke less is more less smart and of course the best joke is that you know how comedy works it's an involuntary laugh like i want to use less words to explain a red ball and then the last word is a pen that pops and you realize it's a blue ball and you didn't see it coming and he laughed involuntarily and that's why the richest comedians are all rated g all the billionaire comedians are g rated and all the raunchy fun ones they're they're 100 million or less because if i came up behind you and went boo you jump i don't have to say blank you i just have to say boo you know it's it's not it's it's the uh you didn't see it coming and man all of your ads are so geniusly succinct and then i remember i remember when yellow pages came out i mean i i'd called it a say you know why didn't you just go to a four font type i mean you got like 14 000 things on this ad i don't even know what you're doing and half of it was scary like bleeding gums pus coming out of your tooth you know um just uh but i love yours so i want to read the last two uh number seven social distance keep toothbrushes apart to avoid spreading germs stand them up and allow to drip dry to prevent the growth and spread of bacteria this is another way socialdistinct can keep you safe reach out to your dentist's office if you need us now homies i want you to go to post for my patients.com and i want you to find one of these nine video ads and just try to take one word out of any of howie's ads and i don't think you could do it in number eight of nine is um in these uncertain times it's important to check in and check up on friends and family as often as you can we can't wait we can't see you now unless you have a dental emergency call your dentist so consider this a virtual check-in um we hope you're healthy and get well and last but not least as uh i don't want to talk about a video that talks about eating well i want i want donuts i want uh steak and rib eyes and a loaded bacteria it says uh um eat well be well are you eating healthy the last thing you want is a quarantine cavity from too much sugar and junk food a healthy diet is not only important for good oral care it's critical for your overall health stay well and if you have a dental emergency call your dentist and after reading your nine gorgeous succinct messages spot on um and and you do marketing not for dentist individuals i mean you play with the big boys dentsply sirona uh my gosh and we're old enough to remember when john miles started that and had the biggest boat on chesapeake bay and then there was um um wrigley and um you know the uh colgate um the big boys what are your what are you thinking seriously when you see us dentist write our own ads for our own advertising marketing do you just like try not to laugh or um are we kind of in the middle between just complete insanity and where you're at or how what kind of letter grade would you give us I’ve seen some I’ve seen some really great ads out there uh you know a lot of it on a local level and you know for it at the end of the day um you know what matters is if is if it works and you know i think i think that what comes across with a lot of the advertising that i that i see is uh it's authentic and i think that especially when looking for a new dentist a new doctor i think that patients want to have that authenticity and they want to have that they want to have that trust and uh you know a lot there's a lot of that out there and i i think that what's also working is is the way that people look for health care professionals now as we all know and the way they look for dentists has changed and the internet has you know really changed so much in that you know it used to be all about direct mail postcards and it used to be about ads and the uh shopaholic type magazines you know now everything as we know is is online and everything is about ratings and everything is about what other patients are saying and everything is about those reviews so it becomes more and more important to create a memorable wonderful experience for the patients when they're when they're in the practice and that is what becomes the best form of advertising and and that's what's going to you know really help to drive practice growth by creating that amazing patient experience you know i think from a you know from a marketing standpoint there's also more and more help available from the large manufacturers more and more brands are are doing direct to consumer advertising driving patients to websites that have dock finders on them where they can find doctors in their area that offer certain types of technology so uh you know that i think is is really helpful for you know a lot of the dental practices there that are out there today because at the end of the day i would never laugh at any ad that any dentist put out there because dentists are not marketers uh you know dentists are are doctors and i you know i can't do a root canal i wouldn't even attempt to so uh i think that the doctors that are doing their own advertising i i admire that and um i i think that it's very courageous for them to do that there's also a lot of great companies out there that you know specialize in in helping practices to build up new patient bases today using a lot of the you know newer technologies using things like search engine marketing and you know using things like yelp reviews and uh you know other online digital tactics so uh those those companies are great and I’m always amazed when you know when we go to these trade shows it's been a while with the pandemic but now you go down the aisles and i mean every every three every four booths is another type of marketing company you know from companies that specialize in social media to website development um you know the search engine marketing whatever you know whatever whatever it might be there's there's a lot of help out there and i think it makes a lot of sense for a dental practice to establish a marketing budget and put that marketing budget towards hiring those that are out there that are experts in helping to market dental practices and and just before i get off it um and you i have so many websites for you the dentalgeek.com i know ed yasser and uh eric and joe were in that um is that part of youtube are you the dental geek too yeah so so so I’m the you know landmark 360 that's a landmark 360 property it's a it's a landmark 360 blog and you know that was really a project that just kind of organically started uh i want to say maybe maybe as far as 10 years ago and that is really just a blog that started out as a blog for anyone that cared had an interest um liked was passionate about dentistry and it didn't matter if you were a dental assistant if you were a dental sales rep if you were if you were a marketer within the dental space um if you were you know on the on the distributor side or even a patient it was really just a place for anyone who had a passion for dentistry to express themselves and uh it's it's kind of taken a life of its own and um it's grown and we we still contribute content to that regularly we have a lot of uh you know guest authors that that write and it's a it's a great great blog that you know tends to um cover some interesting topics it's also a platform that we use to help a lot of our clients get their information out and you know we really try to maintain credibility with the content and and really deliver value and not you know just use it as a as a place to push promotional information but more so really provide you know valuable industry content that anyone who's affiliated with the industry is going to have interests with very very interesting so you have so much expertise in advertising and marketing and if you go to the advertising forum and um my gosh I’m i love dennis they're so sweet but a lot of them are um they're concerned about marketing because they're wondering well i maybe grandma's better off staying at home and uh and encouraging her to come to my dental office i would i would feel terrible if she got out and and um and it's just so sweet i mean how how do you how do you wrap your mind around dentists who um think and some some just say well i just think it's crass to be advertising during a pandemic when the governor's closing down the bars in the restaurant you're not supposed to assemble and all this stuff um and then other people are like you know that's a personal choice and they're out there marketing how how do you see that emotional um issue to market or not market during a pandemic i mean when we were little we were learning about the spanish influenza i don't think we ever wondered i wonder what coca-cola was advertising during the pandemic you know what i mean or did they slow down speed up so how do you how would you take that emotional issue yeah so so i think i think that during the earlier you know stages there there was a need to be you know far more tactical uh there's still a level of sensitivity that should be taken into consideration and you know that that's where i think like a message like the one in the dta campaign really you know works nice we're ready if you're ready so anyone who's not ready we're not telling them that we're not judging them we're not telling them that they should leave their home if they don't feel ready to leave their home yet but if they're getting back to life part of getting back to life is getting back to seeing your dental team and as you're starting to get back to doing the things that you love and doing the things that you miss and doing those things that are a necessity like getting a haircut don't forget to also go see your dentist um you know as far as far as overall marketing um you know i think i think that the world now is is transitioning back to some level of normalcy and i think that those practices that typically do market should get back to marketing uh you know if there's dental practices that never really believed in or needed to market that just hasn't been your thing i don't know that now is the time to take up the hobby but for those practices that already had you know marketing plans in place um i don't think that they should feel uh hesitant afraid or or or worried about it being the wrong time to be delivering a message to patients about the importance of taking care of themselves and you know you're seeing it everywhere i mean you're not you're not just seeing it in dentistry i mean even even the hospitals are sending messages to patients that are telling patients you know it's it's safe to come back and we have precautions in place to ensure that it's safe to come back and you know you hear so many stories of so many patients that put off important uh you know healthcare from you know things as is as harsh as you know the delaying of uh you know oncology treatments and you know they they've been you know especially like you know oncology patients they have such low immune systems uh that you know they have very good reason to to be scared but you know there does become a point i think where the patient has to you know really weigh the risk of leaving their homes first the risk of ignoring their health and there are you know safe ways to get the proper health care and we you know we have what i believe to be one of the the best health care systems in the world and when it comes to dentistry i mean dentistry has always really been like the standard i mean at least for as long as i know the the standard in infection control and the standard in safety and you know other industries really look to you know dentistry as the benchmark when it comes to things like infection control and safety so uh patients should and i believe patients do and our research validates feel very comfortable and safe going back to the dental practice post pandemic so um i want to go back to the dental trade alliance because you and i know what that is but um i i don't think the average general dentist knows there's a dental trade alliance would you describe it as like the american dental association for the dental manufacturers that is a great way of describing it it's it is it is a professional association that is specific for dental manufacturers and dental distributors uh dental labs are also members of the dental trade alliance and uh you know just like the ada has an annual meeting the the dental trade alliance has a annual meeting and it's it's it's jam-packed with education um there's always great speakers that are brought in from you know all over the world some of those speakers have direct relevance to the industry uh others are from you know other other industries but have relevance that could be applied to the you know to the to the dental industry and uh it's a great great place for networking it's a great place for for sharing best practices and uh you know throughout throughout the year there's all types of resources that are made available for dental manufacturers um everything from uh like there's a there's something called a a mini dental school and it's like a four day program that those that are new let's say there's a sales rep that comes from the pharmaceutical industry but just joined a dental company so that sales rep can go through this mini dental school and it's it's it's like a dental one-on-one course to to teach them the basics of dentistry and that's uh something that the dta has you know offered for for many years now as long as i can remember i mean i think at least 10 10 or so years and uh that that's something that's been offered live and i think you know now it's it's offered virtually and it's been offered virtually even before the the pandemic is gary price still the uh president ceo of dental training no no so gary price uh retired about i'd say six months ago and uh the new ceo is a is a awesome gentleman by the name of greg chavez and he comes from the ophthalmology field and I’ve had the chance to partner with him on this project and i got to know him very well and he really brings some great insight and he's got a lot of knowledge and you know there's a lot of interesting parallels between the the dental industry and the ophthalmology industry and the dta is in very good hands under his leadership and i i welcome greg to the industry and uh hope that Howard you have the chance to meet him at some point i i know tell him i want to podcast him okay excellent i will i will you know why because he came from the vision industry and where they want to see 2020 and 2020 is almost over i mean i don't want to see a vision guy at 2021 i mean yeah we got to get him on right away yeah he's got telling me tell him if it's 20 21 or later uh i i don't know what I’m gonna do but uh and um and shout out to uh gary price so he's retired now he is he's just sitting on the couch eating bomb bombs right now well uh man what what a legend and uh a lot of wonderful things for the industry yeah and they have something just like that um um in many countries i love the australian dental um manufacturers association i mean that that's another great one uh but my favorite meeting um is uh always cologne but i wanted to ask you about that um oh my gosh i mean the greater new york the greater new york still hasn't officially canceled and and it's only it seems like a century ago but i remember when hinman made the bold decision uh to stop it i mean um you know they canceled the hymn and that that was the first big american meaning i said they can so then they canceled march madness and everybody started thinking damn i mean march madness and the hinman and then the canadians just you know it came to you know just a call they went ahead and had their meeting and had some infections uh but come on dude you live you you you're you're sitting there right now you're about uh what are you about a uh hours drive from uh new york city yeah pending traffic could do it as little as 45 but we travel do you really think next month after thanksgiving that we're gonna have a greater new york meeting i don't think so i don't i don't see that i'd like to say yes but i don't i don't see that happening i just don't see i don't see how not not with how new york is right now i mean new york is is pretty much closed down i mean there's not much happening there because there's a lot of regulations in place so i don't i don't see how the you know knowing the capacity of people that show up to the dental show and um you know there's a lot of international travel um i i can't see the show happening and if it does happen i mean it's gonna be a much much different show but i i don't know how they could accommodate that many people with the current regulations that are in place you know Howie um you know i think one of the reasons i never got sued as a general dentist you know you know it was because whenever i whenever someone told me oh patient hired clients on the phone he's madder than hell and then i see dennis get on downtown um i have this upset patient wanting me to call him should i call my dental malpractice or should i call my lawyers and I’m like why why are you so weird i just pick up the phone and i remember one man it happened to me in 87 and i called at the end of the day when we closed at seven and um i called and his wife said you know I’m sorry daughter friend but he's so mad at you he he won't even talk to you I’m like well hey I’m you know where my dental office is and i live you know I’m going down 48th street I’m looking at your address you're just off waikoa do you care if i just stop by the house and talk to him on the driveway or whatever and she's like ah but but anyway so i said well i'll tell you what i'll just drive by because he's right on my way home and i'll just honk anyway he came out he you know long story short he just won the regular cleaning and then of course you know we the hygienist probed him and said it was a deep cleaning and this and that and blah blah blah and uh so i told him you know my god i'll i'll give your oh i'll make duplicates for myself i'll give you the the x-rays in fact i'll even drive them oh i'll go back to my office pick them up and drop them off at my period honest uh who's clothes but i'll drop him out of his house and then i'll have him call you and he's like really you know because i explained to him so i went back today's dental i got his fmx i stopped by my paradigm somewhere home given it told me the deal he called the guy but the bottom line is um um you know you just have to have a relationship and if you have a relationship and two people trust each other and um and they they they're transparent it's it's a beautiful thing um so how would you look at that relationship between doctor patient with dental manufacturer dentists what would it what is their relationship like do you think it's one where because I’m I’m the first to tell you um if you took away about 500 dental companies I’m sitting outside on a rug with some stuff i bought from home depot chucking teeth because there's two million dentists on earth uh for uh eight billion people about a one to six thousand ratio and about a million of them are like us and have the cuspidors and the chairs and all that stuff and about a million of them you wouldn't think they're dennis but they know their dentist and anybody in their village has a dental problem they go to there and they sand it down and remember 200 years ago we were barber surgeons and then and then the uh oldest dentist that ever went to my seminar was um george rui st joe missouri 91 years old and it so blew my mind i cancelled my flight back and i stayed over the weekend because i wanted to see him work and it was just crazy and he told and we got to talking and i said um when did you graduate from dental school and he said uh 27 and i said oh my god that right right before the 1929 stock mark crash 1932-36 depression i said that must have been horrible and you know what he said to me blew my mind he goes the great depression was the best thing that ever happened to dentistry and i said why he said well when i got out of school we were all outside because we couldn't afford to go inside and then the depression came and the real estate was all boarded up and empty and then after all them bankrupted the prices fell so low that we all moved inside and what was really neat is when we moved inside we all in st joe all of us got together and made a pact that we would quit doing hair and boots and i thought god dang man i mean when people when people always sit back and think the world's going to hell in a hand basket and we're all going the wrong way and i mean just open up a history book i mean have you ever read i i bought the g.v black is the father of american dentistry and pierre fishard was a century before him in france but read gv black i bought the first three books he wrote autographed and signed by him and i don't want to tell you what i paid for him or you're going to think I’m completely mentally insane and he was talking about treffinating holes above the infected tooth to let out the evil spirits and of course when he drew the evil spirits of course they all look like court jesters for the kings and queens i mean we've come a damn long way um but um so I’m just that big grant was tell you that i love my dental manufacturers i love my 300 rpm nighttime i love my my cbct from uh um carestream i mean i got technology all that stuff makes me look like superman and if you took them away i look like a guy on a rug chucking teeth um so i love them but what how do you summarize the dental manufacture dentist relationship is it open is it transparent is it full of trust or is it negative dysfunctional and deceitful no i i i think it's definitely open and full of trust and i think that more and more it's it's a relationship that is becoming um you know stronger and i think i think a lot of that comes from you know bringing together the manufacturers and and bringing together the dentist and you know i think that dates back to a lot of the work that you know you actually did with the launch of downtown and you know the first thing that comes to my mind when i think about bringing together dentists and dental manufacturers is the cover of downtown magazine and when you first launched that dental town magazine i think it was like year two or year three you started featuring the manufacturers on the cover and inside you know you talked all about the companies and you interviewed the ceos and it gave dentists the chance to you know see the the face behind the company and see the inner workings of you know all these corporations that they that they have depended on for so long to like you put it to basically make them the heroes and give them the tools that they need to you know take care of the to take care of their to take care of their patients and i don't think um you know at that point until you started doing that anyone really realized that there was an interest there that the dentist really cared and um that was proof that the dentist did care and they wanted to know about these companies and they wanted to hear from these ceos and i think that that was really the you know starting point of bringing uh the two the dentists and the companies closer together and the distributors you know play a huge role in that in that formula as well um but you know i i think that there's been a big shift in that more and more dentists are now um getting to know and understand the companies that are actually behind the products and that it's not the distributors that actually you know make the products so i think that that's uh that's that's that's changed a lot also and and i i want to i would explain what you just said to the young kids who didn't live through this story because it's one thing when you're mad at some stranger on tv but it's it's tougher when you're mad at your mom or your five sisters or your four boys I’ve never been mad at one of the six grandchild children yet by the way i want to tell you um the other kids all call me grandpa but one of the sick one of the six is four and she calls me Howie and her mom's always trying to correct her she's saying she thinks it's disrespectful don't call him Howie he's your grandpa and I’m like hey if she's born wants to call me Howie she can call me call me any damn things she wants but um so what he just said was when i was little you know the first 10 years we lived in abject poverty in downtown wichita my dad delivered rainbow bread mom and dad were catholic they had seven kids in like three days uh and they could afford like one and then my dad got into the sonic drive-in franchise the open at one a year and when he opened up the first one he went from like eleven thousand dollars a year to sixty thousand dollars a year we moved to the middle class we got a an indoor air conditioner in dad's window you know and i couldn't believe that he's making so much money that he had an air conditioner in his bedroom just like they have um at the uh at the store and you know just crazy times and um when it was vacation time he liked to do two things he liked to go to the biggest roller coaster amusement park he could find so we went to every six flags over America disneyland all that stuff but on the way he would track out all the manufacturers who gave tours like we drove up to detroit just to see my dad told him i'll buy that station wagon if i can watch it be made with my family and we drove up there and they pulled us in a little golf cart and i watched our station wagon go from the front to the end um we stopped at coors budweiser he's irish and uh um you know uh all these things and i just loved it when i got out of school i when i started my media company i i already knew so many dentists and i'd say like well why do you use why do you use ultra dense bonding age i mean why don't you use this they'll go my god i actually met dan fisher in an elevator at chicago midway i mean and it's like you know half the dentist or on these small towns i don't want to buy from a faceless institution which from a marketing perspective that's why americans don't like the government because they don't know the president of the irs and the post office and all these they're faceless institutions and when they got to meet the guy and then i did the same thing with my four boys when we went on vacations i mean we went to um um a deck and watched a dental chair made from the beginning to the end while ken austin the late ken austin and joanne walked with us and and then i mean um fred doyle 1-800 dennis i was telling him how to answer the phone and actually actually put my little boys on the chair with the headphones on and had someone else pretending they were calling and i mean they've seen every dental company um all the majors in 50 countries like when we went to australia i was lecturing at sydney and our whole family took an extra flight to melbourne just to go to sdi strategic dental international whatever that makes all the amalgams composite i mean they've seen all and and um so i did based on my love of my dad and my this this tradition i mean we're like third generation um um doing this and um i'd put the guy on the cover and it's like this is the guy that makes you look great and what did the dumbass dennis say there it's always about them they're like oh it's a dental rag and it's some whorehouse or putting an advertiser on the on the cover and and i and i you know you know me i was pissing vinegar when i was young now I’m just mature and unwise and all that stuff but i i'd say screw you i own the freaking company that's why i have a column each month because when i the ada published me four times but after they edited out all my colorful rhetoric i didn't even know what the hell who wrote it they'd say oh that's yours and i'd read the before perfect and then the ada four times afterwards and after the ada published me four times i said well the only way I’m going to get the message out just do it myself uh so um and but the dentist said it was a rag so i want to remind you dennis how how utterly ridiculous you are because when i started i was a purist i started at the friend report 94 95 96 97 98 five years i said no advertising it's ten dollars an issue it's 120 a year and four thousand dennis signed up for for five years and all the other dentists say well you know i don't even have the time to read all the other ones so you know i don't have ten dollars a month and you're like okay so if I’m gonna get my column out to everyone i gotta do the regular business model i gotta um instead of charging ten dollars an issue it's gonna be free and then I’m gonna sell advertising and then what do they say well you know it's just a rug there's advertising in there so so as you get older the same patterns now you know now I’m you know almost 60 and i have 60 year old millionaire dentist emailing me call me and text me say hey you know that that article you just posted it's from the wall street journal or the financial times or the economist or the new york times and the washington uh whatever business zones and it's behind a paywall um can you can you just copy and paste and text to me I’m like you piece of crap you're you make two three four hundred thousand dollars a year you want journalism oh but you don't want to pay for it and then when you get the free journalism from you know cnn fox msnbc you say oh well fox is owned by the republicans and cnn's and you know i don't trust it well what is it you don't trust it or you don't want to pay 10 bucks i mean grow some cojonas and either pay for journalism or shut up maybe you should shut the you know st uh i can't say that but the bottom line is um gosh darn sometimes dennis you can't you can't please them and you know you you know you can't do right for wrong i mean i think you should pay for quality dentistry i think you should pay for quality journalism but if anybody tries to do that model you're going to have a very very very small business because you got an american public who thinks healthcare should be free they think journalism should be free and you know free is pretty much usually what the value of it's pretty much what you paid for it so um i wish i could go back and uh i i like colgate and wrigley i mean you you you are so elite you play with dense white serrano that's like the biggest [ __ ] company in dentistry now that danaher spun off uh in vista um probably dense slicerone is bigger than them right yeah yeah so you got the biggest dentsply cerrone you got colgate wrigley i would love to have the ceo of colgate on the cover and talking about all things colgate and i'd love to have the ceo on the cover of wrigley i i would i would push that mary lou the head and lorry the president they'd probably shoot me but uh um i wish we could go back to that and every time i bring it up since we quit doing that about five years ago the team says Howard no the dentist you know they they if you put a dental manufacturer on the cover they call it a rag a throwaway it's not journalism I’m just like okay but you know dennis they're crazy right right i mean i mean what what percent of dentists would you say are bat [ __ ] crazy and I’m talking about as crazy as me you know i think uh i think there might be a solution to this though so maybe it's time to try something new maybe there's a maybe there's a new way of doing this i mean you know you talk about your childhood you talk about these road trips that you took with your dad and then the tradition of taking your kids and i mean everybody loves tours like that i mean it reminds me of willy wonka right it reminds me of going on the tour of willy wonka world and um you know relating that to something that we did in dentistry you mentioned colgate i mean six or so years ago we were running bus trips from the greater new york show to the piscataway facility that colgate has the the dude i was on that bus who was the double doctor yeah dr cody yes yeah double dog i always call him double doctor he's a dentist and a ph but yeah yeah i agree yeah that was that was very well received and there there was ce attached to it i mean it was a great event the experience started as soon as you got on the bus and and there was ce that was attached to it but you you essentially got to get an inside look at what happened you know inside the the science the innovation center in piscataway new jersey so uh maybe there's something through video that could be done where you where you visit these facilities and and you basically go on a tour and and you see how that densify sirona chair is made you see how a cerec system is made you see how you know colgate toothpaste is made and uh that could be great great great great content to push out on on social media and um you know i'd recommend that that it's something that's tested i mean you keep mentioning the younger dentist what do they think of that is that something that interests them and you know i think research is is is really an important topic to touch upon in that uh you know i I’ve been doing this at landmark 360 for over 20 years we have some newer you know team members we have other team members that have been doing this longer than than i have and you know through the years you you learn a lot but even with all the knowledge that you know I’ve accumulated through the years um you know the knowledge that i pick up from talking to people like you uh we still whenever possible we always do research and we always gain insights from the dental professionals themselves because things things change and um you know we always really want to know what our target audience is really looking for and what really matters to them and uh it might it might be good to do a little bit of research and see what these newer dentists are looking for and you know what is it that they would want from manufacturers what is it that manufacturers can do to help them what what can manufacturers offer instead of us guessing um it could be really great to to really find out from these newer dentists that are entering the industry what they want from dental manufacturers and you know maybe maybe bounce this idea off for them what would you think of video tours of you know of a factory of some of the leading dental manufacturers to see how their technologies are man and let me tell you how that helped me i remember um oh my gosh brasler peter brasler did you ever meet peter brown and oh my god you go to dinner with that guy he was the funnest dinner date you could ever have just but anyway long story short since i had toured the factory i remember one time i had like three of his burrs in a row uh break and jan said to me she goes what's wrong with that but i remembered in the factory that it's breaking right where the two were being soldered so i picked him up called the guy told him exactly and he goes are you serious what's the batch number and i told him and then he he called me back like four hours later and said oh my god it's still bro we're still making broken burrs and and and then when i was in um and then as far as quality i mean i i remember going to germany when i went to the clone meeting i did the kavo tour i did the williams iva claire deal and like like like you know dennis they just don't get it like um 3m my oldest sister her convent is in lake elmo um minnesota so whenever i go visit my oldest sister who's a nun i had to um do business for four hours and one minute so i would fly up and i'd either either go to 3m or patterson and i'd bother pete for shet for four hours and one minute then go or i'd go over but the 3m i you know you when you were down there and you see like they have okay they have like 60 phds in white coats and i would ask them a question on dental town they go to the grease board and draw it all the organic chemistry and then the dentist they're like well I’m not gonna listen to a manufacturer because they're selling stuff they're a bunch of they're a bunch of [ __ ] trying to make money and it's like yeah so then they go listen to a dentist speaker who's like you know well you know i want a bonding agent that's uh not acetone i want one with alcohol or vinegar cheese goop or whatever and they're mixing and matching these kits they don't know their ass from second base and you take any of those the biggest legends not all of them i mean you know john kanka would know this stuff but most of them have no idea what they're talking about and then you go to cologne meeting they don't have any middlemen dentists giving lectures about [ __ ] they don't understand and the german dentist remember germany i don't know if you're aware of germany but they make mercedes-benz and your country makes chrysler okay that's all that's all you need to know and you you go to those companies and all the dentists from around the world they say well i want to talk to the ceo of the company i mean he's the one making this implant or this bonding agent or this and that and uh and they sell liquor i mean it's free liquor at all the booths there so if you're irish i mean i mean you can't do that at the greater new york and i i just think it's i just think it's it's not a good culture i mean if you want to make the culture of dentistry better quit treating the ceos of dental manufacturers like their salesmen and when one dentist said to me goes on he goes well they're just trying to sell something I’m like oh I’m sorry i didn't know you were a public health dentist that only did free volunteer do you do your free dentistry at st vincent de paul are you of the indian public health service are you some stupid idiot in beverly hills charging 1500 for a crown that you got from glidewell for 99 bucks i mean so what it is is um you know treat other people like you want to be treated and you don't want everybody to come into your dental office and think you're just some guy trying to sell something you want to be a respectable dentist and these dental company ceos i mean you usually by the time they're a ceo they've been working their way up through the ranks for 10 20 30 40 years or they're the founder of the company so um dentists just need to get off their high horse and they do the same thing with dental advertising you know when you're at the ada it's kind of eerily creepy that the headquarters of delta dental is down the block and then I’m sitting there uh saying well you know for for 30 years every time i go in there i say you know why are dentists thinking their plastic fillings last longer than amalgam i mean delta's got millions of claims crunched every year for years and they don't talk and they don't talk because you know delta will give this average dentist you know a couple hundred thousand dollars a year where they go out and sell dental insurance to real companies to subsidize dentistry and then and then they won't cover an implant or something and the dentist will write him letter dear [ __ ] guys like you ruining dentistry you're evil i was at a delta meeting just a couple weeks ago and this guy was up there um basically you know going after the ceo saying well you know my my fee is 1200 and and to be a part of delta i have to adjust off 300 and I’m like dude forget him and forget his employers why don't you go straight to the people and sell your [ __ ] crown for 1300 i mean are you so entitled you can't comprehend that you can't sell this directly to the public at 1300 so you're yelling at him because he actually goes out and sells it and to do this deal you've agreed to this volume discount it's not one person you got 100 patients from him i mean i mean there's so many dentists are so irrational about their place when you go to any other industry it's the value chain my dad the the guy who sold him a million dollars of meat each year for nine hamburger stores that we our families went on vacation together the bread man all the value chain worked together I’m here in phoenix where we have intel those intel people their value chain in fact half the little small companies around arizona move their manufacturing facility just to be near the plant so they can communicate better henry ford when he owned ford um he you know everything was made right at ford same thing with adolph coors everything there was in denver um you know and and then look at boeing uh you know boeing you know i had to um you know they had planes falling out of the sky and think about it they make the plane in seattle the management's in chicago and the fuselages are made in wichita kansas how dysfunctional is that and what dentists need to do is they need to sit there and realize that i know that i know they all think they're all that in a bag of chips but you are a product of your value chain and the insurance companies are a part of it the dentists are a part of it the manufacturers are a part of it and the community's a part of it and um you know you got to get all the stakeholders together and and you know notre dame no numerator over denominator that on the top line you got the dentist the insurance the manufacturers all the stuff but it's all divided by the patient and if you keep one eye on the patient one eye on cost and treat everyone like you want to be treated it's really easy so um you know just get off your high horse quit being all that quit being a prima donna and um start working with your value chain like like all and and i'll give you a checklist to prove because you're sitting there thinking well Howie I’m not like that no you are like that go to the comments on youtube and answer the question you get a hundred thousand dollars a year from the dental insurance company your state can you name the ceo can you pick them out of a police lineup have you ever had a burger with them or a beer i mean when i got to arizona um at the end of the first year um my dad was friends with dan carney he was the founder of pizza and and him and dad flew out and because i was right next to a pizza and dan was looking at my books back then was on pegboard systems and all that stuff dan was looking at my income revenue and the first thing he said was uh who is delta dental of a z and i said delta arizona he says uh he said who's the ceo of that and uh i said i don't know and he goes well god dang Howie if someone gave me four hundred thousand dollars i dropped to my knees and blinked the son of a [ __ ] and uh you know and uh so I’m on the phone calling ed judd and I’m like ed i'd like to buy it take you out for lunch and he thought it was a trick i mean he'd been abused and bitten by so many dentists they're ugly letters and to this day we were sitting here I’m wearing orange day because it's halloween the month of halloween and um I’m just trying to look like a big fat bold pumpkin i thought that would be pretty scary and um you know and ask him say well okay well delta dental has got a 100 million claims and will pick the same tooth number three mod amalgam versus mod composite how long did they last and you call uh marco vicock the the head economist the ada who came from the united nations the world health organization and is absolutely the smartest healthcare economist in dentistry on the entire globe because I’ve heard that said at cologne I’ve heard it said all around the world they say it in many many countries and you know he's been on the show a couple times and uh he can't even go to delta and get the data because it's it's like it's it's like russia united states or you know china or whatever i mean it's just like they're they kind of look at us like whoa stay back over there but when you drink with them and if you get them drunk enough they'll show you the data that if you take the same tooth and an endodontist does the molar root canal um five years later five percent of them are extracted but if a general dentist does it 10 are extracted why isn't all of this knowledge so that we can start explaining to dentists the importance of finding the fourth canal that's in every freaking first molar but you're not going to have the data because you abuse them i'll never forget when i went to cda that you know delta's you know it's got like 38 different delta franchise but the delta California at the time i was election down there um had done a billion dollars of insurance i said to the ceo i said uh so when do you speak I’m gonna get on my and he's like when do i speak I’ve never been asked to speak ever in fact guess who is speaking bill dickerson from lvi and guess what the name of his lecture is delta or the devil he said how would you like to sell a billion dollars of insurance to these entitled i can't even say it on my show and I’m dentistry uncensored and then and then never asked to speak and then they they bring in people that that call you the devil in a christian country you know it's 80 percent krishna i mean it's just uh it's so dysfunctional and it's so embarrassing and what i love the most about this show is 25 of the listeners are still in dental kindergarten and all the rest are under 30. i mean i hardly ever get an email of anyone over 30 um by because by the time they're 30 they know i'd be an idiot and they'd be listening to a smarter podcast uh by someone else they would have graduated from me but um guys just um you're not all that in a bag of chips you're we got eight billion people stuck on a rock and if you're so damn smart tell me why are you stuck on a rock i mean really you can't get off this rock only 12 people stood on the moon that's not even another planet we're all stuck in a rock we're one species we have no races there's no breeds we're one species we got two million dentists and we need to work together and that's gonna mean the dentists are gonna have to work with the hygienist who they go and get lawyers to pass laws to make it illegal for them to set up their own office uh is that an indentured servant is it an economically violent slave i mean where does this come from and if you could just get all the dentists to just relax and get off their high horse and get along with the manufacturers the insurance the public health everybody work together and everybody just keep their eye one eye on the patient one eye on cost then americans are gonna have the freedom to afford to keep their teeth that's my final rant well said well said all right well Howie um thanks for uh you know when i when i switched from um you know pay for zero advertisement so we're gonna start selling ads and we brought on pete jannicki and he was just an amazing man yeah he stayed with us for a decade but um you uh so many times we're at the fork of the road me and pete and laurie and mary lou we'd all sit down and so many times if they ever said well what would Howard do they weren't talking about me they were talking about you thank you so much for coming on the show today thank you Howard tell everybody i said my best especially mary lou and and the whole team and uh dr giacoba you didn't mention him at all oh he's the uh second longest employee on the team i think he's like a month behind laurie and kent laurie pete uh lori uh my god um yeah i mean and that's and let me just say that that's a perfect segue for management you know it's it's just the same as sports you you have all these people like in football in the nfl this guy only studies quarterbacks this guy only does wide receivers this guy only does running backs and they they find everyone available and then they pick the best guy and if you get the best guy you don't ever have to do anything you don't have to manage them and they make you look great and then if you get someone that's not so great you're going to lose the game he's going to throw an interception and you spend all your time on managing and then on the end you look bad and it's so weird because when people say what's the key to management uh people time and money find the best damn people you can get on the team get the hell out of their way don't micro management don't tell them what to do and if you get the best people you don't manage and then they think oh howie's a good manager no I’m not I’m a good I’m a good um get the right guy on the team and and look look at the nfl how hard is it to find the perfect quarterback and if you find if you find um you know a great quarterback and you put him on your team oh yeah sometimes he'll piss you off because he's deflating the footballs and all that kind of stuff but uh for the most part did you catch that joke yeah uh but just just find the best people get out of their way and and if you um and i would love to do a podcast with the uh new gentleman at the uh dental trade alliance and um yeah i already did don casey the ceo of dentsply that was an amazing podcast and that was a 1452. and that was just amazing um who would it be at um who would it be who would be the best guy would it be um um for um like like my homies wrigley they don't know that that's owned uh by um mars and they don't know that the wrigley oral health program is i mean if you ask a hundred dentists about wrigley spearmint gum they wouldn't know it's owned by mars they wouldn't know that wrigley had but would that be grant reed i think so he'd probably be the best yes well if you you can get him come on the show it'd be awesome and who would you recommend um from uh um colgate uh i'd have to give that some thought there's a there's a lot of great uh candidates but i think we could we could arrange something there well my last little tip on colgate did you know there's no word for toothpaste in over half the countries like um kleenex you know ever they came out with kleenex and then when someone says when they start using it as a verb will you hand me a kleenex um you lose you lose your trademark and now people say give me a kleenex and it's not made by kleenex this is made by kleenex I’m brand loyal same thing with a xerox copy once people start saying well you go xerox that and they knew it was at a cannon copper xerox loses their trademark for that and colgate is the only word for toothpaste and about four out of five countries that I’ve lectured in mom will say put some now put some colgate on that but the kid might be putting one of a thousand different brands on there but kleenex xerox copy and colgate uh or uh are really not patentable for our trademarkable for uh advertising because it's just the common name but Howard you probably got better things do than rant to me all day thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you for uh all that you've done for dentistry and uh please tell jim uh refone that I’m gonna um try to push out the jar of hope and uh oh that would be wonderful thank you for that yeah and hopefully um um god bless james anthony refone and we hope he finds the love and the hope and the strength to beat this um this duchene muscular dystrophy
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