Lea A. Ellermeier is a serial entrepreneur CEO, an author, an artist and mom to Will. Most recently, Lea co-founded and is serving as CEO of 2C MedTech, the developer of the 2CLEAR Orthodontic System. She was formerly CEO and co-founder of REPLICATE Dental Technologies and of Lingualcare, Inc., makers of the Incognito orthodontic system. Lingualcare was purchased by 3M Company in November 2007. Lea has spent her 30 year career in medtech and software start-ups. She holds a B.A. in Political Science (Cum Laude) from the University of Texas El Paso and an MBA. from the Thunderbird School of Global Management in Glendale, AZ. She is the author of Finding the Exit: It's Not Where You Start, It's Where You Finish.
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**Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed.
It is just a huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Lea Ellermeier a serial entrepreneur CEO and author and artist and mom to will most recently lee co-founded and is serving as CEO of 2c med tech the developer of the two clear orthodontics system she was formerly CEO and co-founder of replicate dental technologies and of lingual care Inc makers of the incognito orthodontic system lingual care was purchased by 3m company in 2007 she has spent 30-year career in med tech and software startups she holds a ba in political science [ __ ] laude from the university of Texas el paso and an mba right here in my backyard at thunder bird school of management which actually um got merged with where i got my uh mba asu so now it's the Arizona state university thunderbird school management i went to asu when thunderbird was still a school because i didn't get accepted and it was like 25 million dollars an hour and the state school was uh much cheaper and uh she's the author of finding the exit it's not where you start it's where you finish and i found that so profound and like say you've um talk about a serial entrepreneur in dentistry i mean you founded two orthodontic companies and a dental implant company and you're not even a dentist how does that happen i mean with everything going on with eight billion people in a million different industries how did lee end up starting two orthodontic companies and a dental implant company there's you gotta have a German grandfather mom nun sister something some dental voodoo uh king got a hold of you somehow how tell us your journey sure so um back in 1999 i had been working in software and I’ve been in software for at that point about 10 years and if you remember right around 99 2000 the world was booming with startup companies i was with a software company that got sold actually it was acquired by a systems integrator based out of Detroit and living in Dallas uh i was really not up for a move to Detroit with that company so i started looking around and one of the companies i interviewed with was a company called orthotel which became orometrics and it was really interesting to me it was the first company i interviewed with where i could i could tell my mother what the company did everything else i had done was very you know software complicated um but i could tell my mom yeah this is a company that makes technology to make your teeth straighten faster so orametrics back then had platform technologies for scanning intraoral scanning they had really the first i don't know if you know this they won an award in Germany back in the 90s for making the very first full arch intraoral scanner and that was invented by a gentleman named Rutgers Robert who's also a serial entrepreneur uh he was the founder of orometrics a German mechanical engineer and i know Rutgers really well uh we've worked together for 20 years and we got married three years ago so oh you married Rutgers i did now he started natural dental implants yeah so natural little implants became replicated dental technologies we morphed it um so that that being that was Rutgers became my uh my dental connection he founded or metrics i took a job as vp of sales and marketing there uh at the end of 99 and uh when they went through some pretty significant changes uh we decided at the end of 2000 to step out we had this idea for you know lingual orthodontics bringing it back in the u.s which was definitely an ambitious plan because most of the orthodontists that i knew at that point who i met through orometrics when i told them they're like yeah no thanks lingual I’ve been there done that i don't want to touch it um but you know we thought that we had some pretty cool technology that could really change that experience for patients and definitely for the providers too and so we took that leap and started uh lingual care we did end up selling it to 3m and after a short stint working at 3m which is a fantastic company by the way um i decided that i wanted to do something entrepreneurial again and rude had this idea for the natural dental implants slash replica technologies and so we tried to transform uh implantology which was a pretty lofty goal um but we thought we could again significantly change the patient experience and do something uh you know pretty revolutionary in the space and so he asked the question you know why did i do it when I’m not a dentist i think dentistry is one of those things where it's a space where a lot of people um you know you say I’m going to the dentist our first thought is uh that can't be good right um so anything we can do to make dentistry friendlier more accessible um you know bring technology to make the patient experience better to make dentist more successful i think that's a worthy pursuit so then um your husband he's from Germany so does he live in Dallas now i know he lives in Germany ah that's awesome what a genius to have a spouse in a different kind of you know i would get married again if um the person lived in a different continent i um i I’m I’m you should write a new book how to get married while your spouse is in a different uh country um i always look at Germany um you know i i had no idea when i started lecturing in 1990 that 30 years later I’d lectured in 50 countries but i mean my god i have more respect for Germany and japan than any other two countries out there i mean like i remember um if you're an American think about this like you'll say things like well America is the first country it went to the moon yeah with all captured German scientists i mean there wasn't it's like when it's like when Boston won the stanley cup okay there wasn't one American on the team that was Canada Ukraine Poland and Russia you know moved uh you know and um but i remember when i saw the space shuttle Columbia the first time i thought you know they had this big black arrow pointing to the fuel tank and I’m like come on guys you're nasty you're astronauts i i don't need that on my car i mean i know where the gas tank is in my car but it's so German like when you walk into a German company and you ask one time where's the bathroom someone will sit there and think well someone asked it once they'll ask it a million times and you look down the floor and the blue line says boys and you just follow the blue lines the boy's bathroom the pink one goes to girls room above every light switch there's all the instructions of what i mean the Germans make Mercedes-Benzes the Japanese make Lexus and we make the Plymouth dodge dart charger i mean you know they're they're a whole nother level of i mean my god when you say German engineering and by the way this country when it voted when it formed as a country they voted english beat out German by two votes and imperial math beat out metric by one vote so we were three votes away from speaking German and metric so we we were close to quality at 1776 and then then we then we completely lost it but i I’m gonna go back to historical because podcasters are young kids a quarter of everyone listening right now is still in dental school the rest are all under 30. so this is like an advanced dental kindergarten class that you're on right now and they don't remember the the y2k and all that kind of stuff but so when you said the end of the boom so so basically from 1994 to the year 2000 there was this problem called y2k and that is to save memory space instead of saying the year 2020 they just went with 20. so when 1999 turned over to the year 2000 all the computers would have thought it would have been 1901 so everybody was redoing their software their hardware their equipment and it was the boomiest time I’ve ever seen in my life from 94 to 2000 and no one realized that at the year 2000 everybody was done and there were no cells in January there were no sales in February and march the whole market collapsed and then it built back up and then 10 years later Lehman’s day it collapsed again and we were just about 10 years there warren buffet hadn't bought in anything a year before the pandemic was sitting on 100 billion in cash does did it smell like y2k to you because you lived through the year 2000 you lived through that market calamity you lived through Lehman’s day did you think that that we were headed to another y2k before this pandemic and this pandemic was actually just the second punch from uh y2k Lehmann’s that was getting ready to punch you anyway did it smell the same um it actually caught me very much by surprise i will say the but i mean it felt like something was coming i mean once you've lived through a couple of cycles of stuff that just hits you out of the blue i mean I’ll give you an example oximetric was about ready to close the financing round on September 11th with Lehman brothers in new York that were in the um uh world trade center three okay holy moly um and so you talk about the way things you know shape your life what happened was that that financing didn't close the company ended up closing and financing um October 31st which was almost a miracle we got that closed but the valuation was significantly less we ended up having to hire a CEO who completely shifted things and that's why i left i mean that whole the whole restructuring of the finances that happened at that time um back in in 2002 when Rutgers and i started um uh legal care you know i raised a lot of money at that point somebody asked me recently how much money I’ve raised i would say it's north of 100 million dollars through the years for different software companies and you know dental enterprises so I’m no stranger to walking around with my handout um when we started legal care we had a very hard time raising financing i found out a year later when i went to this price water house conference that venture capital had dropped 97 between 2003 2002 and 2003. okay that was and um and so you know you adapt right and so i guess that would be my message to anybody who's out there right now trying to figure it out you know it feels like oh my gosh this is the end of the world we're never going to make it I’ve certainly had many of those moments myself as an entrepreneur you know you sort of live on the edge and the other thing i would point out is every dentist is pretty much an entrepreneur i mean you you're going to set up a business um and you know and so you're going to have to wait for things like this to happen you have to know what's going to happen the global pandemic that one really did turn me for a loot but again we pivoted we adjusted we actually started selling um uh air and surface pathogen reduction systems instead of orthodontic appliances for a time so you know that's that's just part of the entrepreneurial journey i think is having to figure it out and i just want to say one i want to switch to ortho um yeah the problem with lingual orthodontics um for me when i was little back in 87 is that um it'd be fine on four or five people but you get that one person's got a little add and her tongue starts playing with it and once the tongue starts playing with it you have to take the whole swing set out of the backyard or she won't quit swinging and they would they would lick that thing until the end of their tongue was raw but it did show the importance of clear aligners it did prove the concept that people don't like to look like you know they can catch the am fm radio station on their teeth and um and um my gosh of all the 12 specialties you know most general dentists are competing you know they worry about a dso but it's really the mom-and-pop dental office across the street that's kicking their butt the most you know um but my gosh orthodontist they're under attack they got smiles direct club they got Invisalign they got i mean i can't even think of a a specialty that's under more pressure i mean certainly not endodontics or oral surgeons or implantologists would how do you see this orthodontic market um you know i will tell you when i saw products like Invisalign come on the market in the beginning the thing that surprised me about it and i don't want to say you throw an Invisalign under the bus i think it's a great company that people were willing to accept a lower standard of care because usually when you see changes in medicine or in dentistry you're expecting an elevated standard of care right from products that are going to come in and really take it to the next level not um people being willing to accept a compromised outcome and that surprised me when we started lingual care we really believed hey if we could make lingual orthodontics friendly people are going to go for this because you can treat much more complicated cases the patient's going to have a better outcome and isn't it really all about having a case that's good enough to present for your board exams and that turned out not to be the case and now you know do it do yourself orthodontics because I’m in dentistry friends of mine will ask oh what do you think of smile direct club do you think i should get this i said absolutely not do not start moving your teeth without a dentist in the mix and someone to take an x-ray and look and see where things are at i mean I’m just i I’m actually a little bit shocked by it um that people don't see that moving your teeth is actually a big deal right it's not just I’m going to put these aligners on imagine my crowns are going to be straight something's happening underneath your gum line that you should be aware of that that is interesting that usually when there's a new technology i mean i always tell people the five finger by the way i get asked to sign on nda's all the time non-disclosure range come on guys I’m a dentist for 32 years i own a dental office i have dental magazine i podcast 1500 people i i how can i sign a non-disclosure agreement when you're going to talk about something that I’ve been thinking about and talking about for 30 years and plus i don't like feeding the attorneys but i always saw that my hand i said first of all if you're on shark tank they're going to ask is it faster is it easier is it higher quality is it lower cost is it smaller and more convenient and then you always say i come back and say well it's actually more expensive for less people costs a lot more money and it's bigger and I’m like well you don't need an nda you need to go back to the drawing board and um so um it is it is very strange that you know faster you know um smiles direct club or whatever faster easier higher quality no um but um but it's interesting i mean it's only faster if you're willing to accept a compromised result right i mean yeah can i move your tooth and i i had this conversation with somebody the other day i said you know what i could glue three brackets on your teeth and put a little wire in and fix that tooth in about seven days you know is is is is how can smile direct club be faster i mean obviously I’m not i should just say I’m not gluing brackets on anybody's teeth but um at the end of the day um it's become about advertising and about perception and not about truth standard of care and and caring about your long-term occlusion and the effects that these types of treatments are going to have on your body on your jaw position you know it's people are looking at it more as an aesthetic proceed seizure like tooth whitening and less of something that's really going to have a long-term impact on their oral health so now you're um you're back with um is to see medtech your your your baby right now is is this yes it is okay so um tell us your journey um so you um you did the orometrics you you sold that to 3m and and um so i started in oremetrics i left certain legal care sold that uh we started this this this company for um replica dental technologies to transform implantology i tell people now i took a wrong turn into dental implants I’ve now come back into the orthodontic space um we have this idea that you should be able to uh make a custom tooth for a complete written crown for a patient in the age of um you know 3d scans rapid prototyping all these great materials that are available why surgically shape a patient for an implant when you can easily make a custom implant for the patient so we spent seven years working through this process uh working with fda and in october of this past year 2019 we um after i i could spend an entire podcast hour telling you everything we had to go through with fda to get this to a conclusion a dental implant that was shaped like a tooth the bottom part uh was and when i say shaped like a tube like there were two or three roots on the tooth right so it looked actually like a real a real tooth bottom portion was titanium top portion was zirconia they were fused together into this interesting process with glass and a vacuum basically they were bonded into a single piece but the same titanium has been used in implants for years same zirconia that's been used in crowns for years um we treated lots of patients in europe with the device we had a 97 success rate we get all the way to the end with fda um and they did not clear it they did not clear it um but why but why though do you think do you think their big big money blocked it from somewhere else was it incompetence what why what would your summary be i think it's always easier to say no than it is to say yes to something that's new something that's radically different um you know we like i said we have good results uh fda admit has jumped through so many hoops the last summer leading up to that october they were uh we were answering their questions and one of the things they had asked us for was data on patients for 12 months so six months of healing six months of loading take the bone level measurements um we had we had we attract 40 and it was 43 patients when they got our data they came back and said well we know we said 12 months but really we'd like 18 months can you get all those patients back in and take another x-ray right so try getting 43 patients in over the summer time in 30 days and get their x-rays we were missing two patients so fda came back and said uh loss to follow-up for us is implant failure so we're gonna add two more to the failure box then they said uh how many patients did you intend to treat but not treat at the time it was to be placed because the way we did it was we did a scan of the patient first and then we made the tooth and they so the day of the extraction the dentist would pull the tooth and put our implant in um and that if something happened if the bone were broken or if it was compromised in any way if there was an infection in the socket our protocol was hey don't place that implant don't put it in there um and so we had we had three patients uh where the dentist had decided you know what i don't feel comfortable putting this in immediately and then in those same cases if they had planned to put in an immediate screw type implant they wouldn't have placed it either okay so fda uh counted those three intent to treat as implant failures and when they added those five additional failures two patients that didn't show up and three patients that we intended to treat but did not they determined that um we were outside the range of what they considered to be safe and effective okay uh help me out with this because i don't like talking about religion politics sex violence all that kind of stuff but we're talking business um I’ve been a libertarian my whole life because when I’m a student of history and it looks like for 5 000 years the government has not been anybody's friend they've been the source of all the problems and my house my mansion that i bought uh the American lady in here like you made millions had her deal she had brain cancer and an American pharmaceutical company had a treatment but it wasn't fda approved and she couldn't get in on the study and then finally her doctor said well you know if you just moved to denmark um you could you could just go to any doctor there and get this American pharmaceutical company and i and you know i understand the value of the fda saying well you know if i had brain cancer um well they i probably don't have a brain but let's say ear cancer i got i got ears i know that um if i had cancer and they said okay there's two drugs this one's fda approved and this one isn't i would go with the fda approval i don't have a problem with that what i have a problem with is how all their laws end up justifying that not only do we not approve it you cannot do it and if you do it we will kidnap you and put you in a cage and we'll put you in jail and where you have about a six times greater chance of dying yeah and then i look at all these millennials and every time they have a problem they like run to the government like mommy help us it's like that's not the your mom that that's the devil that's the mob i mean i mean look at even in the current unrest i mean so you have a your blinkers not out well there's a license tag right there why don't you just send them a notice that your blinker is out and maybe you have to prove that you fix it in 30 years but oh hello that ain't enough your blinkers out we're pulling you over and we're going to walk up to your car with guns pulled and if you reach for something we we're going to shoot you and it's like we went from a blinker not working to you just shot a guy i mean i I’ve been a registered libertarian my whole life i refused to buy into the two-party mob where one robbed the bank and one drove the getaway car but back to the fda i mean why did the lady that i bought my house on why did as an American why did she have to go to another country to get a drug made in America for her own disease and do you think the fda should be an advisory like okay lee we're not gonna give you approval but we're not gonna block you from selling it to 331 million americans and if one of those 331 million americans gets it well they can look at the barcode and find out if it's fda approved or not but it's not fda it's force it's force kidnapping go to jail fda what do you what do you think of the fda i really don't have the strongest opinion about them as you do but i can tell you that um i think i think here's what happened okay so think about this in the bigger context most innovation that happens in medical and dental technology is coming from smaller companies like the ones that I’ve started okay so we go out to investors we raise millions of dollars they put their money into this innovation because they believe in it we get all the way down in the negotiated path that fda had agreed to that we worked on for seven years okay seven years uh almost 30 million dollars later they decide not to pass it so who loses i'll tell you who loses that's the consumer because next time that guy that put in his 5 million is not going to put it into a dental company he's going to put it into something that's going to feel safer to him that has um you know less risk so at the end of the day if our implant fell out of your mouth if it didn't integrate for some reason you would like have it in your hand right we didn't we never drilled into the bone that was the beauty of it right it just it went back into the soccer when the old one came out so when i look at fda because i actually asked one of the people at fda i said where is the risk here right no one's going to die it's titanium it's integrating 97 of the time in fact i think it's less risk because we're not going to drill into your bone there's no chance anybody's going to hit a nerve and by the way and this is where i think it went wrong by the way any general dentist can do this procedure you don't have to go to an oral surgeon um so you know is there some grand conspiracy at fda i don't think so i think it's just risk management i think it's always easier to be the person who said no than the person who said yes and then there was a problem and ours was different enough that they were nervous about it and at the end of the day i mean we had a call actually with the head of the dental branch the day before they decided to not clear it um and he said you know what i really feel better about is if you just withdrew your application and started all over again and negotiated a new clinical study with us and i mean we had done part of the study here with Texas a m we did with German you know and our data was i think very good high quality better than what other implant companies are putting forth to put new implants in the market um so i don't know but i think at the end of the day the consumer loses yeah um yeah heartbreaking i mean i got to tell you it was completely heartbreaking because uh and that happened the very two days later it's kind of personal my mom fell okay um we lost our funding for the company we had to declare insolvency on the 4th of November and my mother died on the 8th so for me it was just this horrible waterfall of loss um and it's hard for me to distinguish some of those feelings of loss from okay well how much of this is to the fda and how much of it is due to the fact that my mom died in the same you know the next breath practically you know as an entrepreneur um i had had near-death experiences with companies before where we were very close to losing financing where we didn't you know we didn't see a path forward but at the last minute we found something i had always pulled it out of the fire it's the very first time as an entrepreneur and working in seven different entrepreneurial companies that we didn't make it and it was a very sobering experience for me yeah being Irish just the word sober hurts uh yeah I’m uh well that was the number um I’m I’m sorry about all that it's uh i i mean i am a realist i mean when i look back at history i mean i always tell my four boys that that every hundred years is better than the century before i mean the pyramids were 5 000 years and i go and i i think we're halfway i think it's going to be about 5 000 more years before we finally get somewhat intelligent but i i remember um well anyway not enough of the fda they're just government in general but but um is two um you call this company 2c medtech yeah your husband had i think he called his company 2c dental what is the 2c what are this what's the 2c like to see with my eyes to see medical technology to see dental so we started with 2c dental and our product that we made is called the two clear system and it's basically a combination of very super thin clear brackets and clear aligners that go together again to make a aesthetic treatment more efficient get better results reduce the number of aligners that a patient would need so we wanted to have this hybrid system um and that's that came from Germany so ricker um when we started it we called it 2c dental as we got close to launching in march code hit and all of our customers close their doors right nobody's nobody's open for business and so at the same time we uh had this opportunity to work with casper on their uh uh continuous air and surface pathogen reduction system and what we found was we had a whole bunch of customers buying it that had nothing to do with dental i mean I’ve sold this to airports office buildings law firms homes physical therapy offices and so we we started doing business as 2c med tech just so it didn't look you know myopically like we were only here for dental we sold to a lot of dentists too but we found that there was this huge you know market of people who were interested in this technology to protect their environment so that's where tc med tech came from but in Germany it's we're still very focused on the dental space so i i always tell the story and I’m sure a lot of listeners are tired of hearing it but i'll never forget when I’m you know I’m out here in phoenix Arizona and um really close to asu you remember all watuki yeah sure dude do you remember that it was it's the part of phoenix behind the southbound so 90 of phoenix is north of the mountains and if you go south of it there's a little sliver of people down there that's where i am and um but the bottom line is i went to intel one day you know this is before 9 11 and back in the day when you could go to a company like that and a patient of mine took me in there into the desert i thought it was so amazing that you know employees would walk in they'd take off their clothes they'd go shower they'd get dressed up like neil armstrong to do a moonwalk and then they go work on your pentium chip and the air was filtered to one part per billion and then you would leave intel and drive across the street to chandler hospital with your oral surgery buddy and they would drive their porsche in the parking lot get out walk across in their shoes ride the elevator up and they might wash their hands for 10 minutes but they had the same shoes on that they just walked through a parka and i thought to myself damn a hospital is like a thousand times more dirty than a chip manufacturing plant and then you start talking to the cdc people and they say yeah actually like 200 to 300 000 people 300 000 americans die each year going into the hospital and picking up a secondary infection and all this kind of stuff like that um and now you're talking about this new casper c-a-s-p-r compact plus hospital-grade disinfection i mean you would have had me if you would have said intel grade disinfection but when you start hospital grade disinfection I’m like that's like the dirtiest place in America that's where two to three hundred thousand people get their less their last eukaryote prokaryote or virus that kills them um what do you think of the the modern day um hospital infection well so this product was actually designed to combat healthcare-acquired infections because it's a huge problem as you pointed out people are dying from it and and these days insurance companies don't want to pay for it so the hospital is on the hook to pay the cost of getting you better if you get versa inside your hospital so casper was actually developed to work in the background in the hvac system to put these oxidizing molecules out into the environment and take care of that um so that's what we wanted to bring to dentistry but i will tell you the founder of casper dr christoph sushi actually said to me if i had to have surgery i want to have it at a coca-cola plant in atlanta because that's the cleanest place I’ve ever been um which is kind of you know funny when you think about it but yes having air and surfaces clean uh and particularly in a place like a hospital where you've got a lot more bio burden than you have in the normal space and in dentistry where you've got a lot of aerosol generating procedures i mean i saw a statistic where if you're doing a a cleaning i know they're not doing this anymore you know with the ultrasonic you've got particles flying 15 feet from the chair you know and where are those going they're going into your ventilation system they're landing on surfaces um you know and they can't hand scale forever so how are we going to address uh taking care of the uh you know particles that are being generated in dental procedures um you know long term and i think covet has just highlighted that but it wasn't as if that problem didn't exist before right you you keep saying uh casper c-a-s-p-r I’m thinking obviously it's casper the ghost that's the only casper i know are you talking about casper the ghost or what what exactly is c-a-s-p-r casper sounds stands for continuous air and surface pathogen reduction now I’m sorry i asked yeah rolls off the top so say it again continuous air and surface pathogen reduction aaron's surface pathogen reduction yep it's working in the background like casper the ghost right i mean they they weren't choosing casper or the ghost of their brand but I’ve had other doctors use that expression to their patients saying hey you can't really see it it's invisible it's in the back but it's it's it's continuously working in our environment to make it uh to make it safer and so that's that's your um new big deal in uh in in Dallas uh American you said casper's a really a big deal here where's your orthodontic stuff is um right now it's more of a bigger deal in Germany is that what you're saying yes so we're going to roll out the orthodontic products here in the us um this quarter the two clear system um and we've actually had some other companies come to us and talk about products because i think one of the things that we do well is we understand how to bring new products into the market we understand um you know sales and marketing and communication and training and um and so i think that we will continue to bring innovations into the market uh that serve our customers and that's why i think casper is not a complete departure in the dental market because dennis see this technology too i mean maybe much more so than other uh than other industries so they're not completely incompatible wow um yeah um that that is uh that is really amazing so where are we at in this pandemic i mean i i i think all the dentists we always get in the corner we all drink the same purple kool-aid we're all reading the same stuff and it's kind of good to go outside of the bubble um you are a business entrepreneur artist mother i mean you're an amazing person where do you see where are we at in this pandemic because if you go back to march they were saying well you know the spanish influence is big in the spring it died out in the summer but it came back in the fall and then during the summer my epidemiology friends at asu said well that was influenza and we don't really see that that that seasonal thing this is a new virus is the coronavirus um and now you're seeing breakouts increasing again in europe but a lot but you got other variables is like is it a fall is it coming back because it's the fall or is it because they're opening up all these schools um where where do you see dentistry in Dallas that's where you're at right now right in Dallas and and what i love about you the most seriously is that um since you went to the thunderbird school of management you stayed an Arizona cardinals fan and you hate the Dallas cowboys that's what i love about you how are you rangers yeah where you uh you'll never watch the cowboys play again but where do you where do you think we are in this pandemic it's um tomorrow's the first day of october nine months later what what does it look like to you now um well i will tell you i just got back from Germany two days ago um and the way the germans have dealt with the pandemic i think has been pretty great uh you know they immediately instituted policies across the country and every healthcare environment where they were consistent it wasn't hey let's let's let's all figure it out individually they just the robert [ __ ] institute of health said here's how it's going to be this is our treatment protocol and they had fewer deaths i think than any country in the world um where are we at in Dallas our numbers are going up again and i think some of that's fatigue right i mean particularly my i have a son who just graduated from college you know pretty bummed out that he didn't get to have a ceremony um but he and his friends is that will that's will yep will graduated from university of california santa barbara uh with a degree in physics and uh you know it's hard to leave california and come back to Dallas it's like oh wait a minute santa barbara Dallas but from the pandemic standpoint i think that we're going to continue to see numbers go up because um people just can't maintain this level of diligence i don't think they just can't i mean businesses can't can't maintain um i mean travel is really sad you go to the airport there's almost nobody there um i don't know how they're gonna make it if we don't you know start living again um it seems like the strain that came from new york was much deadlier that what they're calling the Texas strain appears to be more infectious but less lethal um i think we're better at dealing with the outcome so you know i think these are going to stay weird for a while i expect the numbers to keep going up in terms of infection but i don't know about you know mortality it feels like we've gotten that treatment piece down a little bit better than we had before um and you know people can only be super diligent for so long i i don't know in Germany they don't have nearly the cases that we have here spain and france yes but you know the world is somewhat flat right so you just can't stop people from traveling from place to place they're just gonna do it um so until we have a vaccine i think things are gonna be difficult for everybody and we just have to continue to do our best to try and adapt and you know bring in ppe and other technologies into dentistry you know um high-speed evacuators to make it as safe as you possibly can but you're just never going to get to 100 i um i was sad when you brought up that will was a physics major because i i love math and physics the most and I’m you made me realize I’m so old when i graduated from creighton and physics there there's only three laws of thermodynamics now there's four they added a zeroth law it's like you know you're old when they've added another law to the three laws of thermodynamics and now they have the the zeroth law you went to nebraska creighton creighton university because you're you're a nebraska cornhuskers girl right I’m from nebraska really lincoln or hastings hastings i know exactly where hastings nebraska is did you ever get to meet the warren buffett the oracle of omaha i did not but i would love to i would love to you know i i yeah so that brings back a whole nother nightmare because i was so young and dumb it was 1980 and the head my first business class and the head of the business guy obviously knew warren buffett and the oracle and he came and talked and and for 10 credit points we had to summarize what we thought of this guy and i wrote that he was a complete idiot because it was 1980 i was all into the nifty 50 and xerox and kodak and I’m like well what do you think about all this high tech knowledge and he's like if you can't explain it with a number two pencil on a five by seven business card i don't know what you're talking about I’m investing in c's candies and and i just thought this guy's an idiot and what i should have done is canceled college taking my tuition money bought one share of berkshire hathaway and then gone surfing and uh working at taco bell my whole life but i just wanted him what an amazing uh man that was um but um so um when the pandemic started um there were a lot of dentists on dental town that thought that Germany was uh insane and sweden had the best idea of just laws eye fair hurt immunity don't do anything and let it blow through its course now that and of course nine months ago no one knew anything i mean you can't predict the future so now nine months later was sweden's um let it go hurt immunity versus Germany and um because i know we can't talk about the united states or you know everybody will start crying and you know they all turn into little muffins and did did you just say America wasn't perfect but between Germany and sweden what did what what does it look like now after nine months of this experiment i mean i for for the people who lost their relatives in sweden I’m sure that they've got a probably a different opinion than i do as an outsider i thought that Germany did a great job um of keeping it under control of managing you know to have very few deaths to have very few infections um and their economy didn't suffer hugely i mean they somehow they found a a good balance they they figured out how to wear masks in public how to keep businesses open restaurants are open um you in Germany yes people are wearing a mask but generally speaking everybody's open and and it's working so i don't think that the difference between what sweden did and what Germany did was that big of a difference in terms of like businesses functioning what they what they didn't do in sweden was enforce the mass policy and i think that that ended up in a lot more people died which is unfortunate and and the mass policy at the very beginning they were trying to guilt shame you not to buy a match don't wear a mask they need them in the hospital what are you wearing them as were so the government comes out and shames anybody wanting a mask and give them all the hospital and then they do it 180 and go tell everybody they have to start wearing a mask so um crazy times um back to dentistry um my favorite meeting in the world is the what is it the fdi meeting in clone Germany every other year um America is a um ids ids um international dental show and America is very fragmented because they got 50 states every state wants to have their own state meeting and i get all that but europe is just they're like hey look um it takes between concept um prototype manufacturing it's about a two year product cycle let's just have one monster meeting every other year in clone Germany and cologne Germany is my favorite spot in europe i mean it was the most eastern edge of the roman empire so you still have the roman walls it's the best place you can get the best German food and the best italian food in all of europe right there it tastes as same as it does in venice or rome but what i love the most is the people because they all know at that show that nobody knows how the train works how to get a ticket and you'll be sitting there you know lost at some train station and some little 12 year old girl will punch the buttons for you and help you get the ticket um but it looks but the biggest dental company in America dentsply sirona just said that they're they're not going to that next meeting in march um and then slice serona pulled out don't you think that will um pull the legs out of that meeting and everyone else will start counseling or do you think they'll wait till the last minute like maybe there's a big vaccine in february and people start going back or do you think the clone meeting is written off um you know it's going to be hard without big big sponsors like dan supply cirona there um i I’ve gone to ids every year for many many years you're right it's just it's so much fun right and people serve coffee in the booth i love that oh would you like an espresso right they serve whiskey whiskey vodka they did you not see that no they do yes they have hard liquor and little later today um you know i think that i think that the show if they lose any more of the bigger sponsors then it will cancel and i think it will also depend very much on what the infection rates in europe look like um you know right now you cannot go to Germany um from the united states uh i the only reason i can go cause I’m married to German uh and i have to show up with my marriage certificate and prove that i am married to a German not even and they know you're serious because um the one thing i i love my germans i love i love them all but whenever you tell them a joke you can they just get confused they're just like their eyebrows crunch and i always wonder do do are there German comedians do they have German comedy shops because they seem to be about as serious as the japanese they don't seem to be the comedy central type they're pretty German uh pretty pretty serious and uh i have seen some German cabaret when people were laughing but since it was in German i don't speak the language i didn't understand it so i can't tell you if it was truly funny or not I’m still waiting for the first German to come up to me and tell me any joke where i laugh and he laughs too and i i always tell the germans you know you can relax now you know we don't have to do dentistry around the clock but uh my gosh that meeting's so intense and i want to tell two things to the kids i have no less than 10 friends who went to the cologne meeting and and the neat thing about the clone meeting is if you just walk down the aisle at your normal speed when you're out on a morning walk and for the five days of the convention if you maintain that speed you couldn't even walk past every booth it is just crazy there's a hundred thousand dentists from every single country and I’ve heard this story and I’ve seen it not just in dentistry ten times even clear back at creighton where um my gosh where somebody goes there and somebody from let's say south korea and he's coming to that show and he's got this great product and he only sells it in south korea he's kind of looking for a vendor and some American will say okay well i'll buy the us distribution rights for this company for a dollar and as long as i sell over say a hundred thousand dollars a year i you know you can only sell this in the united states through me and then they get back there and they know you know I’m gonna have gordon look at it my teacher and my dental school next thing you know it doesn't have to be a massive product but i mean my gosh if you picked up five percent of burr's impression any and the next thing they know he gets a million dollars a year commission because that little product made in korea that he signed a contract at clone and i mean it's just i mean there's more money made there in dentistry and you always see all the like like you'll be looking at instruments like that's cool and you look to your right and like oh my god that's dan fisher from ultra den he's down here looking at you look to the left and it's like oh my god that guy i mean it's like the ceos of all the biggest companies around the world are looking for is am i am i summarizing this right oh you know it's exactly what i mean cologne is like no other trade show the only thing i can compare to is back in the day in software we have com decks in las vegas where they took over you know las vegas convention center which is huge and almost every hotel in town and it was every software hardware product you can think of colon is like that but it's only about dentistry and everybody knows to come there and you're right all the decision makers are there it's not just a bunch of sales guys i mean all the ceos are there the board of directors people are there if you want to get something done and like you know when we would go to ids and start booking the calendar early people would say oh are you going to be at ids what about wednesday what about thursday those are the vendor days and then of course you've got all the dentists but they have one day reserved just for business meetings where there are no dentists in the hall it's only for that kind of networking that you're describing it's pretty amazing and what i also love about it i love i love I’m going around the world the most because it's only one species it's got a very tiny variance they all have the same problems but i don't care if it's making a windowsill a toilet or a dental filling it's just how they solve the same problem slightly differently and the variance of of dentists from you know there's a million dentists around the world probably two million if you count the ones that are really a dentist in the village but have no training um it's just i compare it to the bar scene in star wars i mean that's that's the only analogy but and i got one more tip you have to do is um the germans everything is faster easier higher quality so they always try to um tell you that your ticket you you get to go on the the fast high speed train but dude you're from kansas you don't want to go on a high speed train you want to go on the cheapest train and it goes to and it follows the river and it's just gor you get in a bullet train and fly to amsterdam it's you might as well fly there you didn't see a thing but if you get on and and when you try to get in on that train they're so helpful like oh no no no you got the first class you can go on the good train it's like no i want the crappy old 100 euro train by the river the creek the whole nine yards um my gosh that that cologne meeting you're right every decision maker anybody who anybody who can make the decision by your company to tell you now but the other thing is i like the two-year space because no they're all not there telling you what they're working on they've had a two-year cycle and and it's all planned on the two-year cycle okay you got an idea okay i need a prototype in in quarter one and then you know and and and by the time they show up to cologne about a week ago everybody's ready for this new product launch um i do think we should somehow get back to uh orthodontics um since you've started two orthodontic companies um we should uh i should try to get focused so in America you're working on this casper product um what would you what would you tell my townies right now that um that they need better air filtration how much does this system cost how do you install it do you buy it direct from you is it through a dealer so so 2c medtech we're a distributor for casper um there are two different ways you can you can have it in your practice there's a piece that goes into your ventilation system that actually your hvac guy would install um or there's a little mobile unit that looks kind of like a space heater that you can plug in and and it runs continuously um the cost you know varies between twelve hundred and eighteen hundred dollars depending on you know what the configuration is twelve hundred to eighteen hundred dollars yeah okay um so it doesn't replace filtration completely but i think it works hand in hand with filtration right because the ability that gets filtered is what what is actually in the air some things land on surfaces and what casper does is it cleans air and services which is good and it's hard when you've got busy staff to cover everything and you also want to address what's in the air immediately so that's my pitch on casper i think it's a great product but i will tell you we are going to launch the two clear system for orthodontics here in the u.s um this new hybrid approach you can find it at our website qcmedtech um or on two clear system and like i said it's a combination of brackets that are about 1.4 millimeters thick little very clear self-ligating brackets and aligners that you put on over the top of them after the wires come out of the bracket so um it's a really slick system it uh you know patients like it it it widens the indications for aligners and so the kind of the the unique thing about it is it's a bracket and then it becomes an aligner attachment after the wire is removed and it reduces the number of aligners you need to complete treatment okay and we're we're and I’m I’m kind of always um I’m always kind of a suspect of uh any aligner from Dallas because that's where it was born i mean uh if you go to clara liner on wikipedia i mean it started with uh that guy in Dallas i mean i mean did you know who I’m talking about the uh [Music] didn't i did not um clear liners were were invented in Dallas i did not know that i always was a packet it was a pakistani um let me um let me uh try to uh pull up uh via chisti from a line no yeah what would you say about a line no I’m sorry well it didn't a lot i mean i know that there are liners out there beforehand but didn't that i mean a line really brought them to the forefront it was zia it was zia christie muhammad zillah khan christie I’m trying to get him on the show do you know him you know zia christy yeah in Dallas i don't i don't think he's living in Dallas is he well he made so much money he was the founder of align technology projects probably lives on mars or pluto in in the the top suite but uh oh my god i would love to get that guy in there muhammad zialala khan christie pakistani American investor in business executive founder of just everything but uh um it's just amazing that you're another high-tech ortho company out of Dallas i mean there must be something uh i guess no one's watching the cowboys play football so they're just spending more time on math and physics but uh but so so um briefly again that two clear systems say say it again what why what are you seeing in the ortho market where you want to bring a two clear system in where where did how did uh how does this fit in the model that you've uh you've seen okay so um i think that there's an expectation now in the market because of all these companies like a line like candid direct smile direct club that everybody should be able to be treated with aligners so patients walk in with an expectation i want my teeth straightened i want them straightened with the liners and this extends down into you know 12 year olds so how can you treat those patients with the liners um where it's not going to be you know 50 aligner case they're going to need all these attachments and you know multiple refinements so we look uh we looked at that uh with one of our partners in Germany actually who's treated uh you know several thousand Invisalign patients over the years and um he was actually the one who invented the system because he wanted to do treat kids with aligners but he needed something else to help and they just weren't going to be compliant and they didn't want to have 50 alarms so the idea was let's put these super clear brackets on and put a wire in an o12 or a14 round wire for the first three or four months get the big vertical movements done get basic alignment pull the wire out scan the patient and then make a series of aligners to to finish the the patient the idea was you know how can we use brackets to do what they do the best and aligners do what they do the best right so those the smaller refining movements are great for aligners the bigger movements are wonderful for brackets so combining those together to basically be able to treat a wider variety of patients including adolescent patients with aligners well the um elevator pitch i need i need to work on that i need to get more no no i uh i wanted you to come on the show for several reasons um i mean really you're a legend but um i think that we should um bring back um um well i i know him as a doctor doctor he's not one doctor he's to dr dr frederick waidu is it why do we do we do well in German it's pronounced like the duke yeah okay and uh doctor doctor because he has two doctorates uh yes and in Germany if however many doctors you get are professors i had one one customer at our implant company who was doctor doctor doctor professor wow not enough um well i i um i would love is it friedrich or friedrich yeah he's he's a character you'd love him well you know what um i own dental town and orthodontism but orthotown i can't go on to it because it's only for orthodontist only if you're not a but he could go on there and talk to 10 800 American orthodontists and and what i think you should do is um have him come on the show and do a podcast and also um i really um have enjoyed um podcasting uh dennis from all around the world because i mean dentist in singapore and china see things differently than they do in australia and canada i mean they just do i was talking to a guest earlier where you know when you go to china they don't have dental insurance because they have the same number of dentists as America they have 150 000 dentists in both countries but they have a billion 300 million people and they have 300 million people and every time i go to lecture in china i always get the same lecture where dennis say well if you eat chocolate and drink coca-cola and don't brush and floss your teeth and get 10 cavities why should your boss pay for those why should the government pay for those you should pay for those and insurance is moral hazard and maybe if you had to pay for all them fillings you'd quit drinking dr pepper and eating hershey's chocolate bar so you know i i love the way the whole world sees the same problem with these little differences so i i love getting on germans because uh number one their quality is mercedes-benz and the americans think they're mercedes-benz because they've never been to Germany and if you've never been to Germany like japan you can walk all the way across tokyo and not see a piece of trash a piece of graffiti and you could get in the train and drive across the whole country with a with a clear sack of hundred dollar bills in your hand and nobody would even notice it or look at it you know i mean so i love the variance to see what's possible i'd love to get free return but you know why you really want to get you on the most tell me we keep um you know when i got out of school may 11 1987 i uh had my dental office open by september 21st it took me 133 days and i didn't have any money because my mom and dad were catholic they had seven kids in like four days so there wasn't a lot of extra money to go around um i um i i walked into the the place and he said i want fifteen dollars a square foot for three years and i said i'll give you twenty dollars a square foot for five years but you do my build out he said okay walked over to healthco which was out of Dallas that was the biggest dental supply company was was healthco out of Dallas and i said will you put in all brand new equipment i don't have a dime and i'll just we'll break it over 60 month lease and at the 60th payment i'll own it they said sure and i open up my office and i work seven to seven seven days a week until pastor don snyder from the lutheran church walked across there and said our parishioners don't like the fact that you work on sunday we think that's a large day and i thought you know what i really would like a day off sounds good to me did i try something but and and i just crushed it i had a million dollar business but now these kids come out of school and they like um it's like okay you just studied eight years to learn how to swim and they want to walk around the swimming pool for five years working here for a year here for a year and no matter where they work they don't like it because people the same reason you wanted to move out from your parents house you want to do your own thing and you don't want you didn't go to eight years of college to be an employee under some dentist and do what he says and it just takes them five years to bust them if they hear someone like you i mean how many companies have you started in your lifetime and even when they fail i mean you you after you fail after one fail because of the government you're you're back in why are you fearless i can just see you walking through the fire rock pit at a at a uh tony robbins deal and then just sitting down in the middle of the fire pit and going to sleep why are you fearless and why are these kids why do they take five years to do what you and i would decide in like eight minutes um i think because for me fear wasn't really an option you know um so i came from a background where my dad was an entrepreneur and uh my dad went broke in the real estate bust of the late 70s early 80s and he died of a heart attack and uh left me at the age of 16 with no home and i had to drop out of high school and get a job what city was this it was in hastings in hastings nebraska nebraska um and uh yeah so i dropped out of high school and i had some bad years but i i finally figured it out i went back to college i got my degree i got my master's degree at thunderbird um and i had lost everything you know at one point in my life and so going forward i knew what it was to lose everything and i had i'd lived through it so i wasn't afraid of that anymore and what i really wanted was to own my own destiny and to me i mean i think there's always you know just as you know there are people who are more who who care more about freedom and others who care more about security and they make a lot of their decisions based on that you know where where that balance is in their life for me independence charting my own course has always been more important to me than the security of somebody else giving me a paycheck so you know and i trust myself i made enough mistakes to know that I’m going to recover I’m going to get back up whatever happens you know I’m and you know like you working seven days a week i don't mind putting in three shifts i don't mind if i have to work on the weekend you know when I’m feeling down when I’m afraid when things are freaking me out i just start picking up the phone i call you hey I’m going to call this person because maybe they're going to have an answer or I’m going to you know I’m going to go and do some more research here I’m an action person and everything that feels bad in my world feels better when i take some steps to self-correct to have another conversation and to look back on my life and say you know what i know what it is not to have anything and i survived that too so I’m not going to be afraid of um you know a failure i mean i will tell you failure doesn't feel good right we all anybody who's been through a big failure my company going down last year was crushing but my response to it was okay what am i going to do talk to the fda in my head all day long because i did that for a couple of weeks um or am i going to take what I’ve learned and try to do the next thing better so it's all i know how to do that's so cool so my my dad um i learned business because um my dad first 10 years of my life you know he delivered rainbow bread to the grocery stores in wichita kansas and we were so damn poor we didn't know we were poor and then um eisenhower came back after world war ii and built all the front all the interstates which opened up the franchises and he saved up his money and he bought a sonic drive-in franchise and he had five in wichita kansas he what my dad had two sonic franchises was one in children's Texas i mean carney nebraska uh hastings and grand island okay so you know roger carpenter jim williams all those guys so my dad had five in wichita and you learn what you learned what to do that your dad did and you learned not to do it yet but the five in which saw he had one layer of managers he had an account carol the accountant and blah blah and but he wanted to go national you know just total so his north was abilene kansas then kearney nebraska his south was children's Texas his east was louisville so each one of those stores was my summer so i spent one summer opening up the store in abilene kansas i spent one summer in carney nebraska best pheasant hunting in the world i mean my god they they jump out they were so loud you'd almost drop your shotgun run and then south to childress and then to louisville which was the only place i'd ever got shot at in my life because when i got there um i saw a tobacco field and being from kansas it's like well i want to go rip out a couple of plants and throw them in the trunk to show everybody back home when it's a back-up plant and there was this shack this hundred-year-old shack and i heard this and it's like that sounded like a shot and I’m still looking at it and i hear another one and finally my friend says dude they're shooting at us so we jumped in the car and drove off set and then we learned at the sonic that they might have been growing things other than tobacco in the middle of the tobacco field but my god you just sound like such a i mean how many people live in hastings i mean that that's a is that a uh maybe twenty thousand when i was there i think the top population is like fifteen yeah do you think that's a midwestern thing that you and i have from kansas and nebraska that maybe you don't get growing up in la or miami or beverly hills or um is that um you know this that but there's definitely an expectation when you come from that farm country as we did where i mean my dad looked at kids as free labor right that wasn't like you know i mean you know we need to paint the trim um you know so and i don't know if you did this in kansas we de-tasseled corn in the summer time to make money it's probably the worst job ever where you walk these rows of corn and the heat and you know dying and pulling you know cutting these tassels off so they don't cross-pollinate um so you know there was an expectation early on of work you know it was never you know summer was so your dad had two sonic drive-in franchises yeah in hastings and where grand island grand island nebraska yeah where they have that bridge going at the museum bridge across the highway that's hastings that's hastings damn so your dad had to know my dad um you know what you know why my dad decided to get a sonic franchise because he loved the frito pie he'd been to something oh my god it's the best pie and he's like we gotta have that literally and the fact that he died of a heart attack the irony of that is not how how old was he when he died of a heart attack 48 my dad was 61 it was 21 years ago yesterday and um and that's why i have um an arnold schwarzenegger modeling body because i grew up on foot long chili cheese coatings that once you talk about the frito chili pie it's better than it's better than anything it's corn chips on the bottom chili and then cheese and onion and then you put it in a steamer thing for a minute and onions and we thought we were slugging and i was the most popular kid in class because if you went home with howie we just walk to the sonic and we eat anything you want so me and mark bordlon and all these guys we just go there and we thought we were the luckiest kids in the world we had no idea we were eating arsenic and uh and um uh my gosh but god that was good food so he died at 48. he did of a heart attack and what percent of that do you think was genetics versus sonic drive-in food uh i think that a lot of it was uh just a bad lifestyle and not paying attention to his health i mean when i when i saw him 55 um and when i made it past 48 it felt like an accomplishment um i know it's been hanging over me all my life my dad was 61 and my mom's dad was 61 and my dad's overseas and so all three friends my dad and the two grandpas all died at 61. so that's why I’m always so excited because i think i only have like two years left and I’m out of here i mean I’m 58 it's like my money you know just go to vegas and roll it all uh no i i think that um i mean i think my dad definitely had some genetic issues he wasn't you know healthy didn't exercise um he was very stressed out it was a combination of things i i might be your dad oh my gosh hey um i i hate to ask the girl question on you because you're a girl but um i get asked this all along when you look at the dsos where they don't have male owner operators independent dentists they have employees it's undeniable that two-thirds of all their employees are girls and um some people think and i grew up five sisters so you know whatever that's where some people think that since girls reproduce you know boy you know we both donated gamma but the women incubate them and because the women are the incubators that they might say you know i really don't want my own dental office i don't want my own business i'd rather go work for you and do the eight to five thing go home be mr mom um do you think that is just sexism because they're incubators and and not gamites you know do you do you think that um going from all the dentists being boys to now it's 50 50 at every graduating class fact most schools most dental schools have more girls than boys do you think that going from all boys to all girls will mean that we'll go from all independent owner operators to now all employees um well i don't see that happening i don't see going to to independent from independent operators to all employees i do think that dentistry is a is a family friendly profession for a lot of women you know who they they want to they want to have that freedom they want to have that independence i think that one of the bigger issues uh for a lot of dentists coming out of school right now is debt right so it's just easier to go work for somebody else in the short term than to take on more debt if you've already loaded up your you know um yourself with debt just to get through school um you know i think for women uh it's harder to take risks i think a lot of female entrepreneurs that i know um feel this way too it's one thing for a man to take a risk but women are supposed to be grounding you know you're supposed to hold the house together you're supposed to you know provide this level of security um for your family and i think that that that is where one one area where the dsos have become appealing to female female dentists is that you know you don't have that extra stress you know you're already dealing with many times not always a family kids a house you know do you really need to deal with and i can tell you as an entrepreneur when you add a you know a spouse children a house a school and now you've got employees it's a lot it's a lot so i can see where the dso model can be pretty uh appealing to some female dentists and let me just remind everyone that um so now did you ever work at the sonic um i did not i worked at burger king my dad wouldn't hire me oh my god when my dad uh oh my god but anyway my oldest son eric when he got his first job it was so romantic i i never even saw it coming he said i got my first job and i said really i i didn't even know you were looking at we're at he said dad sonic I’m third generation for and sonic but my god when you said dentistry is a very family friendly business to be a parent raise a family i mean you know what the hours where a sonic drive in nine in the morning to midnight seven days a week and i only saw my father at work i mean if you want to and that wasn't bad i mean because i get to go down there and eat a frito chili pie um all the car hops were girls on roller skates i mean how cool is that i i just loved it you the the idol of your life he looked like a conductor an orchestra running this restaurant but my god the hours were just if you were alive and you were awake you were at work at a restaurant and then when you compare that to dentistry where it's monday through thursday eight to five and a half day on friday you can own your own business so i just want to end this i know um you gave me an hour and i already took that and i hope to get a i hope to get frederick um you said it's pronounced v do you um to get an orthodontist on here from Germany that'd be great but i just want you to um i want you to close up i know these girls and they're 25 and they're 400 they always talk about 400 000 in debt which doesn't even make sense to me because my parents had seven kids and in the united states of America to have a kid from birth to 17 not going to college is 213 000 bucks so if you're 400 000 in debt it's two kids they're and then you say to idiom well how many kids did your mom have she goes four okay well you're gonna have two and you're gonna have some student loan debt and then if she thinks that's a lot of money my student loan debt was eighty seven thousand dollars my divorce was 3.8 million cash that's 43 times more so if you think you have a lot of student loans i can't wait till you get divorced and you get the little piece of paper that says how many in fact they shouldn't tell you the amount they should tell you how many times more money it was than your total student loans but she's living in fear she tells me she worked there and it might be my office or a great friend of mine but no but it wasn't good enough because dennis you could you couldn't get to dennis to agree that today is wednesday let alone how to run a dental office and she goes from job to job to job to job she's on her fifth job she totally wants to open up her own office but she's just living in fear what could you tell her to how can she get over her own fear and just open her own damn dental office um i would say that um having worked in for other people and having worked for myself i would rather be in control um it's less scary to me if I’m driving the ship than sitting back and watching somebody else drive the ship and if you just jump into it right don't don't don't let that wall of of fear keep you from seeing what that opportunity can be um because it always feels safer over here but it not just isn't necessarily right because you're not going to be subjected to other things right i mean i'll give you an example so during the um the uh great recession 2007. i sold my company in 2007. 2008 I’m working at 3m i saw people that had worked there for 30 years get laid off these folks had no idea how to go on job search or to find something new right so if you think that a corporate situation is always going to be safer i think you're wrong and i think you should just trust yourself just do it you know you're going to have more financial opportunity than you are if you are um you know relying on somebody else to make these decisions for you so i i would tell them just jump just do it what's the worst thing that's going to happen right it's listening so it's just like an airplane everybody's a flight of afraid to fly an airplane because they can't drive the plane that's all it is and then you say well it's a lot safer up here than down on the interstate but they'd rather be on on the interstate because they're driving the car and if they own the dental and a lot of stuff doesn't you can't even measure make sense like um like you go into some dental offices they all listen to country music and they go bowling and then you go to another office and it's all the rolling stones and they go um eat edibles uh after work uh you know it's all these different cultures and um so when you own your own office and you just want to collect country western bowlers you know i mean it's just uh and if you can't stand another person um that you're an employee with you you're stuck but if you own the business you know you can hopefully just collect people that you actually enjoy working with which is a huge difference but man um you're just fearless and uh sounds like a lot of that at the end of the day was because um your dad died when you were 16. yeah um i i already faced how bad it can be and realize that you can survive and i think that's the one thing that i uh you know i certainly wouldn't recommend you know uh appearance diane young well i just want to ask one question on behalf of my two older sisters when your dad died at 16 why didn't you just join the nunnery like they did uh i think i like men too much [Laughter] oh my gosh you know i want the the sex drugs in rock and roll direction for a while yeah and uh i bet you have no regrets there hey lee and ella myers CEO at 2c med tech and 2c dental ag uh my god what an honor to have you come on the show um love to get a follow-up from uh uh friedrich v dew uh from the German orthodontist um thank you so much for uh all that you've done thank you for being fearless thank you for just always cruising at 30 000 feet above the ground fearlessly it was just an honor to podcast you and by the way i forgot i forgot to mention uh you gotta get her book i posted on dentaltown there's already there already um there's already a couple people on there love it it's called finding the exit uh with leah a ella meyer I’m sorry um please tell us about that book uh so the finding the exit is about it's my story it's it's framed around starting and selling my company uh legal care basically kind of getting past the fear of starting your own company but i i also tell the back story of you know my dad you know growing up that way kind of losing everything as a 16 year old and coming back from that um and then you know starting and selling a company while being a mom i start the book on the day that you sold the company and uh to your point howard uh the morning of my sale to 3m i got a divorce at 8 30. i was at the courthouse signing the papers and the company sold at 11 o'clock in the in the morning so three hours and some change later so did that help your alimony did you or you got divorced first and then you sold so that was a good thing or did you get the money and then the only way i was able to get the divorce uh was to pony up half the cash did you have to did you have to sell the company to pay out the divorce i mean i know a lot of dentists who had to sell their dental office just because their wife wanted cashed out for half so the only way they could do that is sell the whole thing did you sell the company to be able to cash out of your marriage i had other reasons for selling the company but um let's just say it didn't hurt it didn't work it did it didn't hurt um i mean i was either gonna have to give up half the stock or you know either either way i was gonna lose it whether it was the equity or it was actually the money from the sale so um you know that uh for me uh and i actually i talked about this in the book when it came down to it i could either have gotten you know cash up front or stock and a payout and i wanted the cash up front because i just wanted to be i wanted to be done financially and i want you know that i feel really really guilty and shameful right now smiling to see a woman going through this [ __ ] too i mean for so many years it was just men paying off all that element i'll never forget this woman dennis came out to me she could have torn down the whole building because she just found out what her husband did is he quit his job one year before he filed for divorce because he knew in Arizona if he was unemployed for one year and one day she'd have to pay alimony to this banker i mean a very successful banker and he just wanted to take a year off and play work out would do whatever and then knew he'd get eight years of alimony and then got a job back at the banking like the next day and I’m like right on this is awesome because everyone knows it's a big scam and maybe if enough women go through your pain we'll finally end the alimony thing it's just uh it's just another racket uh brought to you by the 1 million attorneys of the united states charging out 1 trillion a year and regulating us to paralysis and 1776. uh my gosh um and one final final question um why should a 25 year old dentist who just got out of dental school read finding the exit i think you'll find some inspiration there um because every dentist is an entrepreneur and i think that's actually one of the reasons why i really love dentistry is because it's full of entrepreneurs and interesting people and uh and i think that uh for anybody who wants a I’ve had people tell me it's a really good read that they couldn't put it down um because i i believe i am a good writer uh and that it's you know it'll it'll make you feel good about the the business you just got into i mean dentistry is a wonderful thing uh you serve a lot of people and you have an opportunity to create your own life right as an entrepreneur as a dental entrepreneur and uh so i hope people will find that inspirational so you know and you know i i don't i don't like the fact that the lawyers took over the whole government i mean i mean obviously the supreme court that's a give me but the whole congress and the senate going all the way back it's been 90 plus all lawyers and i don't like listening to physicians on the health care debate because they're employees you know you know what i trust the most the dentist they own their land they own their dentist they own their building they employ their staff i love dennis and if anybody was going to solve the health care problem it should be the doctors of dentistry who owned their land and building employees and understand regulation and um i i just think if everybody in that congress was a dentist um it would just be so much better than everybody being a lawyer and never trust a physician talking about um health care policy um when they've never paid rent or filled out you know um or fica matching for a single employee in their whole life they they don't get it they're usually disconnected but lee and elle meyer thank you so much for coming on the show and um just um if you still got that email send it to uh your orthodontist buddy in Germany um and how do how do they say uh orton kaifer pate kai for paddy keeper or paint say it again dentistry is zon art and uh an orthodontist is a keep keeper orthopaedic keefer orpha paid well tell that kiefer ortho paid i can't wait to meet him on dentistry uncensored thank you so much and tell will he's a very lucky man and uh i hope the cardinals beat the cowboys mercilessly the next time they meet up so on that note have a rocking hot day thank you.