Dr. Jeff is a full-time practicing periodontist in the great state of Louisiana, author and founder of DebtFreeDr.com. His focus is on helping dentists and other high-income professionals create passive income from real estate so that they can STOP trading their time for money.
VIDEO - DUwHF #1474 - Jeff Anzalone
AUDIO - DUwHF #1474 - Jeff Anzalone
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***Please excuse any typos as this was digitally transcribed.
It is just a huge huge honor for me today to be podcast interviewing Dr Jeffrey Vincent Anzalone DDS a full-time practicing periodontist in the great state of Louisiana where Jerome smith is from we're Danny dominique we're carl bro I got so many friends down there um he's the author and founder of debtfreedoctor.com he's a native of northeast Louisiana Awachi parish Ouachita Paris you got it Wachito Wachita parish and open his peridot I wonder if the french are still mad at napoleon for selling this Louisiana purchase they how can France uh not cringe every time they hear about New Orleans um he's a native in northeast Louisiana and opened his periodontal practice in his hometown of Monroe in 2006. he has always practiced on the philosophy of providing the highest quality treatment possible while giving the best in service to his patients Dr Anzalone is highly accomplished and experienced in all aspects of perio and provides top quality gum disease treatment gum recession cosmetic gum treatments and comprehensive dental implant services he is also one of the few practitioners in the united states who is certified to deliver the minimally invasive ciao pinhole surgical technique um we had him on the show for treating gum recession he has received board certification from the American board of period the highest recognition for technical proficiency in his field he is the only board certified periodontist in northeast Louisiana he has written two books to educate patients and acts as an educator to other dentists through books articles and lectures but I like what that book um what they don't teach in dental school is an easy to follow step-by-step guide for the young dentist dental student or medical student that feels that starting in practice is too difficult to do on their own he breaks down each topic into play um gosh darn and now you started um about um your new website which is um let me get it here debt free doctor now the doctors Dr so it's debt free dr.com debtfreedoctor.com but man jeff there's so thanks so much for coming on the show there's so many things I want to talk about one of the things I want to talk to you about um and we'll get to everything you want to talk about but I’m here in phoenix and we got two dental schools we got one at still in mesa we got one midwestern Glendale a lot of these kids I mean 6 500 graduated three months ago you know the COVID-19 class of 2020 and 6 500 kids and I’m getting texts three or four times a day by dentist right here in Arizona that says I I can't find a job do you think maybe um this would be a good time to go back and specialize since the average specialist makes a hundred thousand dollars more than the average general dentist um and also the average general dentist who owns his own practice uh makes a hundred thousand dollars uh a year more than um um an associate the average dental specialist is 320 the average general dentist is 197. general dentists who own their own practice make 244 dentists who are employees make 144 oral surgeons average 448 they're the highest you're number two at perio at 3 30 um endo's next at 307 pediatric dentistry 304 my god um I’d rather it was 21 years ago today that my father died and I think I’d rather be with my father right now than be a pediatric dentist but uh anyway an orthodontist 289 prosthodontist 219 do you think this is maybe a time to go back to period school if you just graduated you were 25 years old in the middle of a pandemic and couldn't find a job um would you if you could get into a period residency would you recommend that or has it been a difficult um specialty for you I um I actually practiced a little bit general dentistry and got interested at the va and doing my gpr residency so I really think it just boils down to if you really like you know as you know to do something um pursue it I don't care what there's going to be naysayers out there and you got the rest of your I mean I would hate for somebody to to do something and practice for 30 or 40 years and then regret it going god you know it's like what if what if you know so you could you know but I mean you've always probably heard the the phrase before there's niches and riches uh so I have not ever heard that phrase that must be a louise new Orleans that must be in new Orleans well I said it backwards there's riches and niches so if you can find your niche whether that's a specialty or you can find a niche in your if you're a general dentist in your general practice and focus on that I mean you mentioned doc um the pinhole technique you know Dr chow he found his niche so if if your niche is doing you know sleep apnea treatments or or whatever then that's uh I think people people these days are looking for specialists whether it's a specialist within the general practice or an actual specialist they they want to be treated by somebody that knows a lot about one little thing now um we had him on the show and I want to ask you the only critique in healthcare if I make an instrument that's really easy patentable and you know I own that instrument and I sell it and whatever but when you do a technique and we've seen these legal problems with eye doctors or an eye doctor does a special cataract lasix procedure and he tries to patent it and some people just say that that that shouldn't be patentable um on that pinhole technique um that he um teaches um do you really think you can patent a service like that do you really think that that's um the way to go that's a good question um I I don't have a law degree so I would have to probably ask an attorney about that but if if it's something I think that if you create and you um you know kind of like you said the lasik surgery if you create something that it you can only do it with that specific instrument or technology then um yeah you know I’m all for it but if you just modify something that's been done before in the past and you know maybe not that maybe that not that maybe that wouldn't be the case well is he is um is john chow he was on uh he was on episode um um uh what episode was that um he was on number uh 101 he was the first 100 I did I I can't believe that and hell it has uh 1300 views just on YouTube um is was that technique um completely unique and different and and um you know patentable marketable what was it really that unique or was it another procedure just done faster easier higher quality more efficient or how how would you describe that technique because it's the pinhole academy it's a big buzzword everybody wonders about it so it'd be nice to hear what you thought about it I mean going through after going through three years of period training and doing performing soft tissue grafting and then something like that where you're doing it a totally different way then I would say yeah that is totally different and you know he had his own instruments that allow you to just stretch the tissues and pull them up over the recession um certain instruments to to put in the different collagen pieces that kind of fill in the gaps so um it was it was totally different um for for me actually doing it some uh it was just it's easier in my hands I just I guess because I’ve been trained a different way to to do the traditional soft tissue grafting get a better result better outcome and I think it may take a little bit longer for me but you know as you know everything should be geared towards what's the best outcome you know for our patients you know basically if my relative or mom or you know friend was in the chair and they needed it you know and I’ll get a better result from traditional connected tissue grafting then that's that's what I stick with and and and he just said I love it there's riches and niches focus on what you love I mean my guys you know the old saying if you do what you love you never work another day in your life and I wouldn't want to come out of dental school and want to start up my own practice then there'd be a recession but then find out I could go to a pediatric dentistry residency to hear screaming crying yelling kids for 35 years and uh um you know um so yeah just just do what you love and and also when you're young and you're out of school when you're 25 years old a year seems so long because at 25 years old one year is um is what is that four percent of your entire life if you live to be a hundred uh but when you're sixty one year is one sixtieth of your life I mean you know so the this will fly um through so fast um that you you won't uh um be yeah you made an interesting post this morning and the theme about you I have I have two different feelings about you one is you're just an amazing periodontist an implantologist and your cases are are intense but then you have this other passion about finances where you always talk to these kids coming out 400 000 in debt and you really want them to be financial independent and it's been a constant theme of yours in fact even this morning you um you posted on dentaltown anyone watch the documentary social dilemma if you have kids especially tweens and teens what's a tween a preteen a tween is a preteen I did not know that um do yourself a favor and watch together as a family as someone who that also runs a blog on the side I’ve learned a little about how facebook facebook and google ads work in order to drive traffic to our site um anyway you were appalled by what some of these companies are doing um it it it is weird isn't it it's kind of creepy what social media uh is doing with your data I mean from selling it to foreign agents to selling it to the government to google wanting to make visual surveillance technology for the police is as if the thugs of all the governments need any more upper hand advantage on how to kidnap you arrest you throw you in a cage and shake you down for all your money it's creepy isn't it yeah it is what's even more creepy about it is the people that they interviewed these are these are people that used to work work at these companies you know it was the pr the former president of pinterest the people that were very high up at google at facebook and they got to the point where they realized it was morally and ethically wrong what they were doing to society and they got out and now uh several of them are on a mission to to basically spread the word of what you know what's going what's really going on behind the scenes what you know what you know so basically if you know one example they gave was you know if if I’m uh you know you know the election is coming up so if I’m you know focused on one party political parley then everything that I see in my news feed and you know whether it's facebook or google or whatever it's going to show me based on that versus if you were totally different it's going to show you you could search for the same thing that I do in Louisiana you're going to get totally different information so they're basically playing you know a lot of you know they're playing the public on each other and you walk around and you're like well why is that person doing that is he stupid is he not seeing what I’m seeing and it's true they're not seeing you're not seeing what I’m seeing but that's that's just the just one of many many examples of of what you know you know the biggest thing to me it's they're not selling you products you're the product you're the product that they're selling because they have so much dead gum information on us that that's how you know they're able to monetize this and it just got to the point where these people said you know what we first started all these companies for good you know to connect people on facebook but now that it's totally gotten out of control you know they can just dial up more money it's all about the money you know that's what it boils down to and that's funny you say because you're standing in front of a Benjamin uh if you're on itunes you don't see this you got to switch over to YouTube but he's standing in front of the coolest poster I’ve ever seen it's a big old Benjamin you know what I love most about that Benjamin um is what I love the most about it is you know when you when someone's my oldest sister is a um a nun and she's six she turned 61 three days ago which is how old my dad was who died 21 years ago and it's kind of interesting now to be talking to my sister and realizing that's how old my dad was on on his last year and it's funny because she's a nun and you know there's like um some I think there's eleven hundred and forty religions practice today so she doesn't believe in any of them but one and you you you so um you know really not everyone believes in religion not everybody believes in a type of government whether it be democrat republican socialism communism whatever you call Singapore you know whatever so people don't believe in many types of religion politics and everything but the only thing everyone believes in on earth is the us dollar and even our adversaries like like you go catch um terrorists who are trying to kill us they still got sacks of us dollars they still have sacks of Benjamin’s even our enemies believe in the us dollar and um um that's what I worry about the most I always worry about the united states um you know they they they keep printing money and you can print all the money you want if it's in your own currency because you can just pay it back with your printer if you're venezuela and you owe a bunch of money in u.s dollars and you don't have us dollars you got to sell stuff to get us dollars and that can trash you know um you know crash to argentina six times in bond defaults but the united states they can just print and pay back the money that's not the question the question is will there be any value um adding a trillion dollars of debt a year uh until we got to 19 trillion then because the pandemic they added three more trillion do you ever um look back at that big old Benjamin on your wall and think someday that might be the value of a piece of toilet paper yeah for sure really really the reason why I got that uh not that long ago because I’ve I’ve got all my and I had to move them I have all my deer antlers they were back here and the more podcasts I do I’ve got these antlers coming out behind me so people are like you know kind of looking like the devil sort of thing so I had to get rid of that view but but I’ll tell you I’ve been a dental journalist since 1994 I’ve had the magazine and the most controversial issue we ever did with the biggest backlash was it was a dentist in missouri um who taught a morning class but anyway it was a deer hunting deal and so you deer hunt them and the dawn in the evening and then you'd take ce in the middle and I was the guest speaker or whatever and uh oh my gosh we had a thousand dentist um um and just go and say and his wife was a veterinarian which confused him anymore it's like how could your wife be a veterinarian pro animal and shoot a deer and I would say to everyone I might say and one of them was ripping me a new one at a conference over it and he's sitting there eating meat like dude we're both you're you're eating rubber chicken right now I mean you know you're a vegetarian I mean you know I’m a vegan which means I only eat vegetarians and you know but um gosh darn so it's probably a good thing to get those deer antlers out there because that is a big trigger for a lot of people I’d like to go uh if you don't mind I’d like to go back to what you were talking about earlier about finding your passion you know about being a specialist that sort of thing I was actually talking to my 13 year old the other day and he is very kind of real timid you know versus his 15 year old brother he's like he'll go jump off a cliff it's like whatever but he's real timid and it's almost like the fear of failure you know because again social media if you I mean they could just make you uh you know a failure just like that by filming you or whatever so I don't know if something happened to him or whatever to make him feel like that but we're trying to encourage him to get into more things like sports um just I said look just try try try one thing if you don't like it you can say hey you tried and move on I said look I’m four I said ben and I’m 46 years old and I really didn't know that I liked I really didn't find my passion until two two or three years ago I said I’m 46. I said you're only 13 and unless you try stuff you'll never know he's like well what is your passion I said well uh I really enjoy writing with the blog and uh real estate and in teaching people teaching other dentists about my experiences in real estate and I said if probably if I would have gone to dental school and done all this it wouldn't have led me to where I am now so we just I just encourage people out there they're listening to this if they have some sort of passion or whatever that they think they want to try at least try it because if not you're going to be kicking yourself down the road wishing god I wish I would have tried it you know before yeah um that is a um that is great advice um so what was your so you said you just found your passion um three years ago and how would you describe that passion it uh it really started off just talking about the amount of student loan debt that we were in close to 300 000 and all the financial mistakes I’d made when I started a practice and I just started I mean being a redneck from Louisiana the only thing I knew how to do is turn a computer on really and I taught myself how to how to start blogging which if you can type you can do a blog and did that for about a year but I shifted when I started doing more real estate investing and saw how great it was not only in passive income for people but um and I tell the story I was I was skiing a couple years ago I don't know if you're a skier Howard but you know those those ski school kids you know they'll cut out in front of you one of them did and I fell and I landed on my wrist and I got up you know my wife's like you okay I was like yeah and I’m kind of doing like this my wrists and it kind of got me thinking if I were to be temporarily or permanently disabled what would I do and I think dentists out there were so focused on doing everything we can to grow our income our active income which is the hot the most highly taxed income what happens I mean do you have any other income streams and most people don't and that that started the process of me thinking you know what I’ve got to start doing something else to to look for other income streams and you know why why should I reinvent the wheel right so I started looking and the majority of the wealthy people that I personally know guess what they had real estate in their portfolio I wound up going to another dentist david phelps freedom founders course I did that I was exposed to a different um real estate options there one of them being passive real estate where you can continue practicing treating patients doing what you know best but having a check come in every month or every quarter and and I talk to people on a daily basis physicians dentists all over the country and it's amazing you can just start hearing the hope in their voice when you start telling them about my experiences and how uh what this could do for them their situation you know they're looking for ways to pay college for their kids lower their taxes passive income and that's really spurred me on that's really my passion now to do that and that's what I was explaining to my son once like you said earlier Howard once you find something you really love it's not a job yeah and um on your website I just love it it says hi my name is jeff angelon and I’ve been in your shoes I used to work those long hours not knowing that there was a better way out there that's why I discovered passive investing through real estate syndications group investments which allows me to stop trading my time for money and start focusing on the things and the people I love most I’ve helped many doctors just like you take control their finances and create passive income through investing in real estate all without the hassle of being a landlord and I can't wait to show you how to do it and this is not a commercial I begged him to come on my show for four years he's not paying me to come on but if you um if you just enter your uh first name Howard and your email address Howard at dentaltown.com he instantly emails you a free guide so if my homies go to debt free doctor debtfreedr.com and they enter their first name Howard and their last name uh their email howarddentaltown.com what are they going to get emailed to them that it says the doctor's passive income guide how to avoid the number one mistake doctors make with their investment yeah it's just what I was talking about just um we're so focused on our trading time for dollars you know I’m I’m sure you've heard of robert kiyosaki you know rich dad he lives right up right up the street yeah here here's his book I mean this it's like dog eared and I’ve read it so many times but if you haven't read it a rich dad poor dad it will really get you thinking about hey we most of the dentists that are listening to this we have a job and he calls it job just over broke and if we're not in our clinic most of us if myself included if I’m not here treating patients guess what am I getting paid and he just goes on to teach well you can continue to even though you're maybe self-employed or you own the practice you're you're still an employee and he wants to j and people may be okay with that my brother is an engineer he's okay with trading time for dollars not you know kind of being open getting other people to work for him but I I want freedom and I want options I like to eat I like a lot of options so if I could just tell people hey you can keep doing what you're doing or you can do this and you choose because I i can't tell you what's best for you only you know what's best for you or what interests you but at least given other people options about different types of investments because I think and I think you had Howard a financial planner not that long ago on your show and you know for us in dental school we get out of dental school what are we taught we're taught to work for 30 or 40 years max out your 401k and then after 40 years hopefully what you'll have enough money saved up and hopefully when you start taking that money out you won't run out well that was all I’ve learned you know until the last five years when I said you know there's other ways to do it and that's my goal is to tell people if you don't want to do it like that you don't have to instead you just figure out ways to get enough assets like real estate that cover your expenses guess what you're financially free so and you can do it much earlier so if you want to retire at 50 or 55 or you want to go start a mission somewhere or give your time to the church or go be a football coach or you know you know whatever you want to do it's it just gives somebody an option now I’ve um I agree with you a thousand percent which is why I had grant cardone on twice I mean I had him on show 185 525. um I had 3 000 views on YouTube um so obviously um it resonated a lot with the dentist and the the one thing grant um really is the next level the the first question dennis have is will should I rent my location or should I own the land and building and I want to really answer that um with clarity and that is the primary thing about your dental office is your business so if you wanted to open up a dental office and maximize your potential to do a million dollars a year and take home 250 or whatever um and by the way for liquidity the all the dsos they don't even look at offices anymore that are doing under a million and and the best chance of doing that was to go be a renter um then then you go rent because you're a dentist first opening up a dental business and the best odds of being doing a million a year and taking home 250 is to go rent this place um that is entirely different now you wouldn't sit there and say well I’m going to go to a lesser location where I only do 275 but I’ll own the land and building because as grant so eloquently points out you need a few properties in order to scale like like the reason dsos are doing so great is because at least the first level when I say dsos I mean like three group practices or more maybe up to ten I’m not talking about the the big box ones with 500 or more that have a second layer of management which takes another 14 off the top it's why they can't go public and that's why I don't understand the business model but when you but when you're in a small town at 250 and you're on the south side and you realize my god it's so cheap to do radio and tv and billboard uh but I need a north south east west location and then I can bring on a scale of people like an hr person an accounting person a marketing person well it's the same as real estate grant grant said on two different shows that you really need about 12 properties in order to cash flow a full-time employee to go collect the rent and to fix the toilet and do all this stuff so he recommended your first um property be like a 12 plex or a 16 plex and you live in one and then you're right there and you're the free labor and you take care of the whole facility um so you know your dental business comes first and then owning the property underneath that would come second now if you want to get in the real estate business uh you need at least a dozen to get big enough to bring into layer management but you you kind of went after the real estate where you didn't have to be a landlord so you can get in smaller I mean can you get in as small as a thousand dollars whereas if you're gonna buy a 12 plex or a 16 plex you're you're looking at a couple million so so um how small so so why did you not want to get a 16 plex and move your wife and two kids in there and have your kids you know take care of all the sinks and mow the yard and pick up the trash and why why did you why did you like this passive kind better well uh and here's his book cardone's book the 10x rule which I think we limit ourselves so much we think so small like instead of going what do I need to do Howard to get to that million dollar practice grant says don't think like that because you're limiting yourself put a zero on the end of it and you say well oh my gosh 10 million dollars I’ll never do that well if you never even think that's possible guess what you're not gonna do it so maybe you get to four maybe you get to seven but if you would have just focused on a million then guess what you're never going to get there so to answer your question I thought that being a real being a real estate investor you had to physically own property but when I sat down with my wife I one of our goals was we wanted to be financially free we wanted to spend more time traveling with kids we didn't want to be a landlord so I didn't want a second job or a third job or fourth job luckily I was able to find there were some passive real estate options which for probably 95 plus percent of the dentists listening to this they're not going to want to go and buy a four plex or a you know you know 10-plex or whatever and live in it and that's just just not feasible because they're doing what they do best and that's what even grant cardone says he recommends get good at what you're best at being a dentist and then the better you get at something what the more money you're going to make the more money you make the more you can save and put towards assets that pay you every month every quarter to get you to the point to where you don't have you basically are replacing yourself so the the majority of these uh investments that I do as you had alluded to earlier are called syndications whereas basically we just you know kind of like a mutual fund you pool your money with other investors to invest in physical properties the cool thing is I’ve had I have a lot of people that reach out to me through my blog but I connected with a physician er doctor of tom black nepali capital and super guy his brother tim black was the cfo of all the great wolf lodges oh yeah and six flags him his brother and another guy started nepali capital about six years ago tom practiced medicine for 10 years and I said well uh do you still want to practice or whatever he's like well I practiced seven years too long so he he got out as soon as he could and what he does he's one of these groups they go out and they're looking at 80 to 100 properties a month a month and they may make a offer on one so think about it if you're a dentist do you think you have time to go look at 80 properties a month do you think you have time to have to learn how to to to what it's going to take to underwrite or look at these properties is it in a good location what are the rents will the comparables there's so much that goes into it so what you do is you find one of these people that you can trust they're very ethical group I work with them and then they buy an asset or an apartment complex they allow investors in that start paying you quarterly distributions which is tax-free because of the depreciation you get and then they turn around it and turn around and sell it in a few years and then you get your investment back plus you know a profit of the sale so basically what what happens is you double your money in these investments about every five or six years and Howard I haven't been able to find anywhere near those types of returns in the stock market um and this is this is the kind of things that I teach I don't sell anything I have a course I don't have a book I’m not like a some sort of insurance salesman that's going to knock on your door I’m just there like you uh providing information for the dentist based on what you know no they they they send me whiskey they send me boxes of whiskey um so which one of the great wolf um the great wolf lodge you was that mark vaccaro bruce navarsi or who did you say uh tom black the gentleman that started nepali capital his brother tim black he was the former cfo of the great wolf lodge I wondered because my my six grandchildren that is the coolest thing so we're always going to the great wolf lodge you know in kansas city where I’m from wichita and here in Arizona in california and the and it was oh it started out as the black wolf lodge and then they change it to um the um the great wolf lodge and I really love going in there and seeing the picture of the the black wolf I mean that that's a magical especially around halloween but I didn't know why they ch why it was named black wolf and why it was great wolf but the guy's last name was black huh uh tim black yeah tim black huh I always I I I didn't know why they um because when you walk in there they have that big black wolf that looks so badass and it's like why didn't you leave it black wolf lodge and they uh they changed it to great wolf loss huh that's a I’ll have something to tell my little rio roo when I get home today uh how that name changed um so um why real estate why not an etf I’m an exchange shaded fund I mean there's so many people that say that um that the just um the a plain index fund has outdone 90 of all the stock uh people for the last decade or two um why focus on real estate and why not just an index fund I do have I do have index funds my retirement account at my practice that my employees and my wife and kids are part of so I do do that but that that is not going to give me all the different benefits that you can get once you get into real estate such as the appreciation that you get the the depreciation which um you don't pay you hardly pay any taxes is sometimes zero taxes I don't know if you've if you know I think tom will write is he in your area uh counted robert kiyosaki's accountant wrote the book tax-free wealth he's really big on teaching physicians and dentists um about the different prop about the different benefits of real estate so the the taxes the appreciation you get other people the tenants to pay your bills you can't get that with an etf you can't um get out of practice early and have the freedom you can with real estate so I I basically just tell people um you know I’m going to a a bone grafting course in orlando next month and that's I think that's the first live course that that I’ve heard of that's that's going on right now because of the pandemic and we're all going out there and meeting and going to meet some of these people some of these investors and some of these properties and you literally don't have to do anything you have to say anything you just listen to their stories and how it's affected their life and once you hear it it's like wow I’m in and I think the hardest thing people have the analysis paralysis they analyze stuff so much that it really it takes a long time for people to just jump in and do it but I think once you do it and get your toes you know dip your toe in the water so to speak then I think that um that's when it just it just blows wide open and it's just unbelievable wow um so tom will write as um with uh kiyosaki and um and is he with your group too no he he's just um he's a part of the rich dad advisors which is kiyosaki's group he is tom is robert kiyosaki's personal accountant and he actually has just a huge you know accounting network he actually had me on his podcast last week tom or kiyosaki uh tom did I’m still trying I’m still trying to get on kiyosaki show that that would be pretty cool because he's definitely my mentor but tom is such a smart guy and he really knows about dentists and the amount of taxes we pay but you know because everything's just on our active income and the problem with dentists if you look at our balance sheet you know we have our income from our practice and at the bottom what do we do with our income we buy cars we buy boats in Louisiana you buy four-wheelers you know stuff to shoot stuff with and what is that that's a liability but when you look at how the wealthy people do it they buy a grant cardone is a perfect example he said he buys all the the dumb stuff the cars the you know the the paddocks or whatever those watches are called and all that stuff but relaxing yeah but instead he buys apartments he buys real estate and he lets those pay for his stuff he lets the he lets the income from the assets pay for his stuff but what do we do we don't do that we do it the other way we take money out of our pocket pay all this taxes then we take this after tax money and buy the four-wheelers and boats and cars and then guess what we retire we're broke so it's just a it's a different way of thinking and that's what I’m trying to do is especially with people getting out with such big huge um student loan debt and you know and people they're they're always just sinking a ton of money in their houses you look at kiyosaki he's like a house is the worst investment you can make and it just depends on are you a dave ramsey fan which I was it took me so long I was such a huge dave ramsey fan he really helped me get out of debt he helped us to to you know get a seven figure net worth all that stuff but it's it's like he's he will never change because he can never go back and say anything you know based on what he's teaching and you know pay cash for everything you know pay off your home well if you do that you got a million dollar home you got a million dollars of you know grant cardone calls it dead equity so you got a million bucks sitting in your home losing money instead I’d rather have that million bucks out there making me money and that that's and again it's what I do and what somebody else does I’m not telling you you have to do it I’m just telling you there's a different option and then let you decide do you want chocolate or do you want vanilla and when you say uh dave ramsey are you talking about uh the dentist in thornton colorado are you talking about the financial advisor financial guy I’m just teaching um um I just want to explain something real simple to the kids because you just said something profound and that is um you know when you go um look at using other people's money like when we talk about debt okay first of all there's eight billion people on the planet and six billion of them have no access to other people's money so debt is a rich world problem you knew you were working at mcdonald's for ten dollars an hour you could have saved up to go to dental school you could have worked ten dollars an hour uh 40 hours a week for a decade and gone to the school in cash but you borrowed other people's money to go to dental school with debt and then when you got out when you go to pay that back now you're making a hundred dollars an hour so that was a 10x leverage you went from making 10 an hour to 100 grant cardone 10x that's such a genius uh thing to do but dentists doctors physicians lawyers they use other people's money for house cars boats when Jerome smith um invited me down there to lecture to his group down there I had so much fun but oh my god after the seminar we drove down to the bayou and these boys you know we drove down there and all these hundred thousand dollars f-350 pickup trucks but then when we got there they had 300 000 bass boats and then some of them had 500 000 houses on stilts by their 300 000 bass boat that we drove 100 that's all consumption and the bottom line is um for you know the majority of the united states the reason we saw the rockefeller center is because for every dollar he bought in bonds a dollar would pay him a nickel every year until the end of the us dollar and the end of america's time and what dentists do is they say well I want to use your dollar and I want to pay you a nickel into perpetuity and you meet these dentists physicians and lawyers and they're 60 years old and they're still using other people's money for house cars boats and one of my friends just um house prices are coming down you can get a frank lloyd wright house for under a million dollars and he just got a 30-year loan on a million dollar house and he's as old as I am I’m like are you out of your mind so so borrowing other people's money to give yourself a 10x leverage to make income off of that money that's business to borrow other people's money for consumption is crazy and then I just want to make another other point because I know you always remind me of how much student loan debt you got um there were seven my mom dad had seven kids I only had four the average price of having a child in america from birth to 17 not counting college is 233 000 so if you came out of school 400 000 student loans well instead of having four kids like uncle howie have two um you're you're in Louisiana so it's about 103 percent chance you're catholic am I right I I grew up catholic but we're we're baptists now but you you had it spot on but but yeah um and once you're born irish catholic in uh Louisiana you you're gonna die an irish catholic in Louisiana you might have a different legal name or whatever but the bottom line is how many kids were did you grow up with and because you had two how many kids did your mom and dad have my dad was they had uh came from seven yeah so seven and you downgraded two that's financial planning because let me tell you what you don't wanna hear and I know you don't wanna hear this but it's the truth the number one cause of divorce is marriage so the dentists who never get married never have any kids they're millionaires and then when you get married you're going to find out I mean my my dental school student loans was 87 000. my divorce was 3.8 million and my my divorce was 81 times more expensive than dental school if you don't get married you won't get divorced and then back to that marriage thing um the dentist who marry anybody with a post-grad degree say you're a doctor or dentist a lawyer if it's a post-graduate degree beyond the four years and you marry someone with the same degree you only have a 10 failure chance of divorce because when all the perfume and romance is worn off you got a lot to talk about you're both dentists you're both orthodontists you're both lawyers um there's so much there but um the difference between marrying a girl in your class who's gonna make ten thousand dollars a month from age 25 to 65 versus marrying someone who's gonna stay home and have seven kids and spend ten thousand a month from age twenty 25 that that's that's 5 million to the right or 5 million to left that's a 10 million spread so let me be clear on financial planning don't get married so you won't get divorced don't have any kids and then if you're going to borrow other people's money it's to buy or build something or invest in yourself so that dollar is gonna generate you a nickel for the rest you know every year for the rest of your life and what a dentist do they they marry someone who's gonna have seven kids and they borrow all their money for houses and cars and boats and campers and then and then they want to know why they're burned out in dentistry because they finally realize someday that they're 40 and they're gonna have to work 40 hours a week until they're 100 just to make all the minimum monthly payments on all the crap they own and what percent of burnout disease and depression in dentistry is financially caused by that scenario probably a lot of it and we were talking about it before this call of was that the suicide rates are so high now with you know Dr burnout colleague here down the street from me last year you know committed suicide he was two years older than me 48 and you know finances had you know a good portion to be with it because it's that what is it called the the uh sunk costs fallacy or something like that because you're you're we're so educated and it's like well I’ve gone through dental school or residency and I’ve got all this money sunk into my education you feel trapped I got to keep doing I got to keep practicing what else am I going to do I mean if but there there's a lot to do out there I mean and that's what I’m trying to do is provide hey if I could save one life to show somebody that they don't have to keep doing dentistry if they're miserable there's other stuff that they can do with passive income or whatever hey I’m I’ll I’ll call that a winner any day so um I I gotta bring it back home jeff because the the truth of matter is a quarter of my listeners are still in dental kindergarten school and the rest are all under 30. I mean send me an email Howard at dentaltown.com I love the comments in the YouTube session I always take those to heart and try to get the guests on you're talking about and all that kind of stuff but they're all sitting there listening to you saying okay jeff you're 40 something howard's almost 60. um I just got out of school I’m 400 000 in debt and and I don't need to listen to you anymore because everything you're saying isn't going to take effect for 10 20 30 years what would you say to a 25 year old who's thinking that right now she's thinking I got 400 000 in debt you know I I can't even think of investing in anything I can't even do an ira a 401k well so so let's bring it back home you just got out of dental school you're jeff you know what you know now but you just walked out of period school you're 25 years old you're 400 000 in debt now what I would I would do exactly what I did I worked in multiple offices I mowed yards again that's right I mowed yards as a periodontist you have any pictures of that could you uh can you send me a picture of jeff the periodontist's motor yard I knocked on the lady's door I had a lawn service in high school and college and I I said hey you know I’m I’m uh remember me oh yeah I said you need your yard mode this summer she said aren't you supposed to be a doctor by now I said yes ma'am but I’m broke and I had a deal fall through I was supposed to join this group practice here two weeks before with the two-month-old all that student loan debt they so I’m like I don't have a clue what to do I already bought a house and I was like over half a million when you factor all that in and I was like my I went from hey I’m on a cruise to survival mode and that's how you have to approach it when you get out of dental school if you got that much debt don't be doing all this you know lollygagging around I’m gonna go make a hundred thousand a year and live like a you know a doctor that's been out for 30 years keep living an apartment keep eating the pork and beans and bust your butt live like a resident just keep living like you're living in dental school clean all that up and guess what you'll be so much far far ahead of the game than you know 90 of the people out there and it's like it's like they can't show me any sector where they live below their means like they have uh just a car they got a beamer uh take a house is it three bedroom two bath no it's five bedrooms a bath okay does your wife have a job no she she doesn't work I mean um your clothes your shoes your watch even ce they'll go to a course for a week they'll lose a week of production they'll spend five thousand dollars for a week and I’ll say okay well sit down right now and just just orally tell me what did you learn in that week and they struggled to tell me a paragraph and I’m like dude that course is on dental town for 18 bucks why did you need to fly in an airplane three thousand miles and stay in a resort to learn something to learn just the paragraph you just told me I mean I mean just sit down with your wife and and spouse and say okay where do we live blower means right at the midline and above our means and if you have a DDS a dmd a jd an esquire an md your every behavior you do is to the right of them the median how do you how do you get them to live below their means it's tough and and people are listening this and probably 95 percent will say yeah that sounds so good and then they won't change anything so I think if you have kids that you start there great game my my kids play is actually robert kiyosaki's cash flow quadrant game it's not cheap but you you probably played it or whatever and the goal is you spin the wheel and all that to get out of the rat race my 13 year old knows the goal of the game is to get out of the rat race and of course he beat me a couple weeks ago and he looked at me and he said dad are you still in the rat race and I said yeah look I’m right here on the board he's like no in real life are you still in the rat race I said well unfortunately son I am I’m trying to get out but I am he said he looked at me 13 years old he said that's gotta suck doesn't it I said yeah it sucks he's 13 he gets it so if you got kids I encourage you to have conversations with them when mine go when we go down the interstate we look at these new apartment buildings going up they know hey look there's 80 units there look at all whoever owns that look at how much those tenants their renters are going to pay them so they're thinking just get them to start thinking because they don't get any of that in school even if you're going to be stupid enough and not do it yourself that's fine but don't ruin their life expose them to it so explain how you play the game so the goal is you know you start off on in the rat race like we're in the rat race and you're you're trading time for money and this is the online online investing game cash flow classic or is this the board game I bought I bought the board game the cash flow for kids the the cash flow for the cash flow quadrant the cash flow game for adults was a little bit too much for them it would be great for just adults but if you want to start off with the kids game but if you want to do it for free online they have an online version of it but it teaches you how to buy assets such as you know real estate and those sorts of things and the goal is to get your passive income to be as much or more as to pay your expenses you have ten thousand dollars a month in expenses well if you got ten thousand dollars a month and passive income checks coming in guess what if you want to go keep scratching on people's teeth you can but you don't have to it's up to you again it's all about having options that is a um those concepts are so neat and that's why um you know I’m I’m so grateful to my father because uh um you know he taught me so much this and what he wasn't teaching me um his friends when when he uh owned nine sonic drive-ins uh all of his friends were uh into stuff like this and I’m always thinking he had nine sonic drive-ins yeah he had five in wichita one in kearney nebraska childress texas louisville kentucky and abilene kansas and um what I want to um and you know a lot of times with your father your parents are you an optimist or a pessimist like I have a friend who um claims he's completely a drunk and a loser because his dad was a drunk and he's just a carbon cop he was dead he blames all his dad well I got another friend keith that because his dad was like that he swore like 14 he would never drink the sauce and he is you know he's um I think he's 37 this week and he's never had a drink but you know so um my dad the five in wichita he had that one layer of management and that thing those were just ran like a humming bee I mean he had uh girls like carol that could visit all five restaurants a day but he wanted to go national so he went up to abilene and childress to the north I mean abilene and uh and uh carney nebraska the north he went down to childress texas to the south and he went out to louisville to the east and he you know he wanted to go national well he didn't he didn't have the team and those four long distance ones damn near killed him on the five cashflow ones and that's what we see today where we see um a dentist will be super successful and he wants to turn into a dso so he opens up a second location and it doesn't matter how inefficient that one is because he's such a he's crushing it on office one that he can muscle office too and then he opens up the third one and now he can't muscle all three of them and the greatest fatality rate in dentistry today is between offices uh three and four they just go under they got two debt leverage they couldn't do because in office one they're just winging everything they don't have the systems you know heartland um people that work for heartland or fontanas aspen or sea thorns pacific those are amazing systems and they don't understand or appreciate the systems to get that big so I tell people if you want to do a dso do north south east west in one town and you can build a 10 million business and take home 2 million and not get out of bed in the morning okay you can do that I never went that route because I didn't believe in that for myself or my four kids I don't want my four kids to be a dentist and work for jeff I wanted to be a dentist and work for them you know what I mean so I never did that I did another type of model where I would go rent I go find a great location and the landlord would want like ten dollars a square foot a year for three years and I’d say I’ll give you a 15 a square foot for five years but you do the build out and then I go down to healthco uh which was a swallowed up out of dallas I got swelled up by patterson a long time ago and I said okay you you put all the inventory in there but break the payment up for 60 months and on the 60th payment I own so I got a free build out I got a free equipment and then I would sacrifice a receptionist assistant and hygienist they would run the whole thing I would never do anything in there I would never see a patient and then as soon as their numbers satiated darlene wing at um Arizona bank um to qualify for an sba loan which was 24 years low interest then one day I just walk in and say hey jeff you sign this this whole thing's yours and then they'd sign and then I get a check for 250 and that's what I believed was best for me or my kids I never really believed the dso model I now it may change I know that in when I lectured in tokyo the kids were telling me that you know they watched your dad stress out in grammar school to get in the best high school and stress out in grammar high school to get in the best college and then stress out in college to get a job at toyota and then go get a job at toyota and work 12 hours a day six days a week and just come home and drink sake and pass out and have a heart attack and die at 60 and they just said I don't I’m not I’m not in I’m not in I’m not gonna do this and so their birth rate went from under you know you need 2.3 to maintain the herd it dropped to under one they only have 0.9 kids for family every morning in japan they have less people than the day before so it might not work I mean maybe someday all the dentists get out of school and say I just want to work for heartland I just want 50 bucks an hour or 100 bucks an hour and I don't want any of this stuff and I just want to work four days a week and and that's all and and that's fine I I just like I tell my boys the only thing dad wants you to do is be healthy and happy don't uh don't be you know I don't want to find out that you're you're miserable and and not breathing I mean I want you to you know just so so I don't know you live your own life do what you love um you know if all you want to be is a pediatric dentist and my god go do it I mean you know it'll uh that way when you get to hell it'll be it'll be easy you're like this is nothing I was a pediatric dentist for 30 years this is the best you got um so so we talked about the student loan um you talk about personal finance wealth building through passive real estate investing is that more weighted than your index fund is it more weighted than what your cpa is telling you to put in in your your planning um at what point uh how do you appropriate index fund savings and um passive real estate investing that's a great question and you got to have a plan and you know that's the thing I read I’m reading the wealthy gardener right now and he says success is always an organized plan and consistent effort success is always an organized plan and consistent effort most of the calls you know I have something called the passive investor circle it's a free club that if you go to my website you can join to learn more about passive income nine times out of ten when I talk to new members and I ask them well what is your goal how much you know you're trying to retire early so much passive income what's your plan they don't have a plan so we have a plan and once you have a plan guess what it just it's easy so every month excuse me every week money comes out of our accounts out of our business account and goes to you know different accounts some may go so we will max out the 529 plans for the kids we'll max out the the 401k for the practice you know we have a if we're having to save up for cars or if we have to do something for travel money goes out to that anything left over goes into our real estate account and once that fills up and we look for a deal we go buy one and it's it's it's it's really it's automated there's really nothing to it but if you don't have a plan you're just going to be all you're literally going to be going from Louisiana to Arizona without a map and you may go back to florida and you may go up to michigan I mean you don't know where you're going but if you have a map then I’m going straight to your house so your re that book is called the successful gardener guide or the the the book that I’m reading is called the here it is the wealthy gardener the wealthy gardener the guy used to be the guy's a chiropractor and I heard him on a podcast and I listened to the podcast twice it was the most inspirational podcast I’ve ever heard and I said I got to get this guy's book and he wrote this book to his son when he went off to college a few years ago and he just talks about the the lessons that he's learned and he got out of being a chiropractor I think he had 40 units single-family homes now he's financially free but it's just great parables um the best parable I like so far is a parable of the acorn and the guy keeps a acorn on his desk and he's and he looks at it every day because you know what kind of like what we were talking about earlier if you keep that acorn in you and you don't do anything with it guess what it's going to stay an acorn but what happens if you put it in fertile soil you water it you put sun that acorn will grow into a huge oak tree but unless you do something with it so if you have something in you that you know could be your health it could be your wealth or whatever once you start watering it and and giving it attention it can blow up but until you do that until you focus on hey I want this for this reason you know start with your why simon sonic book I’m sure everybody's heard of start with why and that's going to keep you motivated to to you know to go down this course you know my motivation is more time on my kids more for insurance protection so you know if something happens to me well there's more income coming in for my family and my ultimate goal is when I have grandkids I want to be able to show them the world I want to be able to travel take them everywhere you know that's what that's what my ultimate goal is that is um that is a uh an amazing goal um I can't believe we went over an hour and um we're past an hour um do you care can I keep you on overtime and bring it back to um perio and I mean um what is um I l let's just do a little bit of perio at the end of this um when I got out of when I was in school periodontists were so save the tooth conservative and man we did hemosections and we learned how to floss and brush tips and threw for all the way through ferkas and we did everything and then it seemed like I got out of school in 87 seen about like 95 there was this new miracle cure called just throw that tooth away and replace it with titanium and so that was the the new rage and and even endodontists got in on this because you saw the number of apicoectomies and retrophils disappear and then just you know they're just extracting implants well it seemed like about 10 years of implants people started realizing well it's not really a magic cure they get peri-implantitis and I’m seeing a massive drift back to the 80s where it's conservative is this what you're seeing in new Orleans and is um do you see it drifting back towards old school saving the tooth or where where are we out on this cycle I I look at I like to talk to people for 10 or 15 minutes if I don't know them to to see what what their overall situation is what their diet is what their lifestyles with and then once I get all that information then I can recommend what I think is best so if you got a farmer that farms around here that hadn't seen a toothbrush in 20 years well I’m not going to recommend him just you know if his teeth are borderline I’m not going to recommend trying to save you know spend 10 grand to save his teeth and do all this stuff I’m just going to recommend hey let's just slick them and click them right take them out flick them and click them lick them and click them you know what what is that slick them and click them you know take his teeth out and stick stick some dentures in there slick them and click them and uh cold steel and sunshine versus somebody that that is going to take care of their teeth and they're going to do everything they can so I may you know give them a different treatment plan if I get people that come in which I do occasionally that says doc I’ve spent so much money on these root canals and crowns and and they're on all these medications and their mouth is so dry and you could you could stick a a mouth mirror on the inside of their cheek and let go and it just hangs there you know their mouth is so dry I don't recommend you know a lot of gum surgery because that's going to expose the roots they're going to be more susceptible to decay so those people I would recommend titanium implants so it just depends on the source of the problem and are these people going to be able to take care of it the the worst people that I that I just I feel so bad for these people that go to places like clear choice they have they hadn't brushed their teeth in 30 years they go there they spend they mortgage their house they spend 50 grand they get a mouthful of implants they're all locked in they can't clean they tell me well they did it never told me I got to go back and get them checked well they come see me five years later and guess what Howard all the all the uh implants are sitting in a sea of gumbo they're just floating around and they're like well I paid 50 grand you're telling me all this it's got to come out I said well so that again I think if somebody would have sat down and listened to that person's situation maybe they would have done something removable with implants that they could clean so again I think to answer your question I know that was a long-winded answer but it depends on the situation and what's best for the patient so what you're saying is that an all on none is much better for a person who's not into yoga and kale and brushing and flossing and all those little things and um slick him and click him with cold steel and sunshine is perfect for those people who don't have home care but if you're gonna go spend twenty five thousand dollars an arch on all in four that's gonna need a lot of home care and maintenance and they are putting them in people who don't who aren't going to do that now I’m all understand I mean I know everybody on january 1st signs up for a gym and um they're going to lose weight and get healthy and do all this stuff and it'll last for eight months and then that gym keeps digging your membership card for about 36 months so that's how gyms make money because the people that are in there for eight months um are don't come in and it takes them 36 months so I I believe americans have the freedom to go mortgage their their their whatever and go buy the all on four but it's really not going to work if it doesn't change their behavior right you're exactly right if you if you see that that per I mean would you go buy your 16 year old a ferrari you know that you didn't know how to drive or take care of it no you'd be doing a disservice you had to bring that up my my baby my baby I I had a weak moment my baby he turned uh he just turned 16 and and he was the only one that was really into cars and he had seen this blue mustang that he just fell I mean it was just it was love at first sight and I had a weak moment so I wouldn't bottom that car and then you can't even make this up I mean it's so it's so crazy like three hours later um he was just itching to go somewhere and he goes well do you need anything I said you know what sounds good some chipotle guess what he did on the way to chipotle stacked the car oh yeah he yeah and and that's exactly what he what he told me in fact I fell down I tripped over the fountain going out the front door and bruised myself driving to the scene and they were all concerned I said look there's no ambulance everyone's standing here talking to me it's a miracle we're all happy it's all good this is just a financial mess and so it was all great but uh my god you had to bring up the the car man you said I haven't had that nightmare thought he's uh god what is he now he just made me a grand baby lasted the day before my birthday just made me my sixth grandchild evelyn so it was all worth the car and everything and then I wanna also um you gotta you gotta touch on your uh your two books um what they don't teach in dental school on amazon um what is that book about and why should my homies uh go to amazon and order that book right now that's um that's mainly for I would say dental students the first two years when I got out of practice that I didn't know what I was doing I just started writing down as I was learning from the guy I was renting space from hey when I go open my own practice this is what I need I just literally had a big yellow pad like this and just started writing notes and then I look up one day and I got like 100 pages of notes so it's very basic basic stuff you know 99 of it you can get on dental town but it's literally everything that they did not teach me at lsu dental school which it could be different now because that was you know 20 years ago or or more yeah and you were you were in some really pioneering times I mean there there were some big pioneers back then I mean you got a um my gosh um uh kent uh was from there I mean kent's like the biggest name in uh in tmj oral surgery uh john what's that michael block john kent ray yugna um jim weir all those guys yeah yeah um and um so what's uh what's what's kent doing now is he so is he working retired is he just on some island now just uh fishing uh he's probably jerry he's probably at jerry smith's camp enjoying the fishing down there oh yeah my gosh um they uh they love their redfish don't they um so so yeah that uh that dental school book I mean uh what they don't teach in dental school is a classic I mean it's and jeff's so organized um this book is an easy to follow step-by-step guide for young dentist dental student or medical student that feels that starting a practice is too difficult to do on their own uh Dr um anzalon breaks each topic down into an easy to decipher format which makes starting a practice idiot proof it's got 25 star ratings and it's all for 12.99 if you don't have 12.99 if you call jeff he'll probably uh email you a pdf or something how do my homies contact you if they're interested um what's easiest to go to your website debtfreedr.com should they go to anz alone periodontics should they email you what is the best way for them to get more information yeah they could either go to as you said debtfreedr.com if they want that guide forward slash free guide and okay that's forward slash free guide or they could just go to debtfreedr.com put their name and email address in it will take you to that page or they can email me jeff debtfreedr.com will answer any questions they have as you know try to get it with two within one to two business days now do you do you care if I push that out on uh on uh dental town or is that something you'd rather that I not no I would I would love that the more I mean it's free it's just like a 10 to 12 page word word document that will email them automatically again I’m not selling anything it's just information and if they want to have a longer conversation with it they can just email me and go from there now on twitter are you um are you still um are you still on twitter uh uh would it be uh um docked at Dr Anzalone or do you have something different for the debt free um or do you have a different twitter for debt free I um I don't really don't tweet too much but let me uh you know you know what it's funny when I can't believe when anybody over uh 40 says that because when uh our president is the twi I mean he's he just blew twitter up I mean my god I mean that twitter was um it was it was nothing for me it was nothing for anybody then um the president started tweeting all day long and now on twitter uh my god I’m up to uh 26 000 followers um but it's all the older dentists now if you want dentists 45 to 65 they're all on twitter and you want them 45 to 25 they're all on instagram and if you want your grandma you go to facebook that's why I I stopped doing facebook uh um actually for the pandemic I got so swamped during the pandemic something had to go and I had 300 000 followers on facebook and I said that that that's too much but uh so so your twitter is going to be um at debtfreedr uh on twitter freedom Dr oh my god I was not even aware of that we'll all tweet that out right now um to them and then I want to see um if I asked all the questions I had uh written down for you um educating dentists about not spending all their time focusing on growing their one income source in case something was to happen to them is that usually I remember in dental school a lot of the instructors one guy had um lost vision in his right eye so he didn't have three-dimensional so he had to be a teacher um is is this um um why is that so important to educate dentists about not spending all their time focusing on growing their one income source in case something was to happen to them how common is it that something's going to happen to them and they're going to want a different type of income well you know just like I said with with my almost snow skiing accident if you go to a ce course or something and you go skiing or you you know try to beat your kids in basketball and football like I still try to do and you know laying on your shoulder or throw out your arm or whatever you never know what's going to happen so why you know that's why you have disability insurance you know that's why you have life insurance so why would you only just have one income if the wealthiest people in the united states have an average of three to seven strains of income and 90 of them have real estate in their portfolio why wouldn't you want to do it yeah and and you know another thing that I I could say is when um the mind is a funny thing and when a dentist is 45 years old and he realized oh my god I get my four kids I gotta make mansion I gotta stay home spouse we we eat out we travel I’m gonna have to sit on this treadmill to 45 to 65. it seems like they get a bad attitude and they burn out and things go south but then when they're when they don't have to work anymore when they can go home like right now people say you know why why are you doing all these podcasts well I I don't have to do anything and when these dentists don't have to do anything now they're they're playing they're they're back in that sandbox and uh I mean I I I didn't uh sell my office because I knew if I sold my office I’d have to put an operator in my home and I’d have to have a compressor and an autoclave and I don't know how any of that works without an assist in the room so the reason I kept my dental office is just because well my granddaughter needs you know filling grandpa's gonna go do it and and uh when you don't have to do anything you find out you start only doing what you want to do and is that kind of is that kind of the secret to uh going back in time going back to your childhood when you were playing is just you don't have to do anything yeah I mean I’ve been given serious thought my my sophomore uh 15 year old he's one of the quarterbacks this year he's doing great and I’ve mentioned about maybe doing some coaching next year on their high school team I don't think he really liked that idea too much because they have plenty of coaches but I’ve always wanted to do it and guess what if you if you have other streams of income coming in or you have other sources of income coming in why wouldn't you do it I mean how many years am I going to get to do that I only have two more years that he's going to be there so again like you said you don't have to have you don't have to practice if you don't want to and and that I think that was one of the most profound statements that I’ve heard you say is once you get to that point in life where you don't have to do something that is when you find your true calling because you're gonna you're gonna announce you know I’m not talking about if you're 90 years old and you can't get out of your bed but if you're 45 50 55 years old and still in good health I mean that's that's that's perfect you know and it's it's the same with patients when you when you've got all this overhead to make you know you're building a denture on somebody and you know it's going to be a nightmare where I can just sit there and say well you know what denture world right there right there in the center of the trailer park of apache junction we'll do this whole denture for 200 and I’m gonna charge you 12.50 he'll all drive you to denture world um you don't have to take cases on I have a dentist and he wanted to be debt free live below his means to get financially independent because he never wanted to do a molar root canal again and his victory day was driving to an office knowing that if it's a toothache he's got an endodontist that'll see him that day that's that's her guarantee I got a toothache you're going to get an emergency room and you're going to see him that day I’m never going to do endo again and but um your son's a starting quarterback but come on uh how tall are you he's not the starting quarterback he's a he's a backup but he's just a sophomore but how tall are you though I’m 6'5 and I think because he grew five inches last year he's like six foot he'll probably be you know fairly tall I mean he's isn't the new thing in quarterback like I noticed michigan and you know that they're banking all on this one quarterback but it's pretty much because he's six foot five I mean don't you think that's the future of quarterback to be tall enough to see over the line as opposed to someone I mean there's pros and cons if you're really short no one knows what you're doing back there but if you're tall you can see what do you think's a better strategy to be short like um you know Arizona cardinals we got um uh tyler murray I mean he's amazing but he's short do you think being short knowing it's harder to see what he's doing or do you think it'd be better if he was six five and everybody uh and he could see better well my good friend from my hometown just uh was drafted by the cardinals rashard lawrence defensive tackle monroe Louisiana check him out lsu tiger but to answer your question probably taller because most of these schools now are going to the spread offense you don't have to be as as you know versatile as a quarterback and run so much they can just sit back there and you know he's telling me all these checks he's got on the line he's looking at his receiver he's looking at the defenders he's got his gift receiver depends on where the the d back is playing them they playing them up hey I’m going to go route you know so they're they're thinking about all this stuff and it would help to be tall like you said to see over the line to do that if you're short like drew brees with my saints you know you see a lot of times when he's throwing he's like up like this and having to so it helps did you say the saints or the ain't well right now it's saints um um and final rant I just want to because I know you're busy you got pace you got to go my final round is this when you said your Arizona your friend is um coming down to the Arizona cardinals um I was in uh my dental office and we got news that bill bedwell was moving the st louis cardinals to here so what did we do that day this is before the internet this is on newspapers I’m reading the newspaper we get the address of the Arizona cardinals um we get the the roster of their 50 players we went and got 50 mugs for today's dental 893 care and um we put candy and this and that and we put their um their name and their jersey numbers and of course when you go to the cardinals deal there's you know security gate security guard there's no one's going in there so you send your two youngest adorable staff dental assistant and hygienist and they're there just bringing gifts so what did the guard do he let them in and they brought him in the lunchroom they put him out we picked up about 15 of the 50 cardinals doing that another so that's just hustling that's just we still hustle um when we when southwest airlines out of uh my gosh he died january this year herb kelleher love his book uh um nuts um I’m just an amazing guy and they were gonna build another hub here and we did um I I personally um print I I heard they were gonna have like 2 000 employees so I made 2 000 flyers just for southwest airlines said hey welcome to phoenix Arizona the sky harbor airport is we're just 12 minutes south of the airport on i-10 you know we're quick we got lots of pilots blah blah blah blah and I went down there and I’m trying to angle found the guy at the airport that runs the mailboxes for all the lo all the pilots flight attendants everybody's going to pick up anything and he said well I I can't do that and so I opened up my wallet I handed him a couple benjamins he says let me help you put those in each box and we stuffed one in 2 000 boxes and picked up at least 50 or 100 southwest airlines employees and um and then when we were downtime in phoenix Arizona it's 110 in the shade for six months of the year that's why I’m loving october I mean halloween is the greatest day in the world because if you're in Arizona you actually need to wear long sleeve shirts and sweatpants you can't go around in a t-shirt and shorts anymore and my gosh every down every cancellation we got every employee would suck it up buttercup because they knew we were in a 24-acre safeway walgreens chase big pizza hut chicken house and when we had a counseling snow show you grabbed flyers and you went out on that 16 acre parking lot and started putting flyers under the the windshield wiper of the car and um and then if that was bad you go to some high density like drive a block down the street and there'd be big old apartment complex three stories tall and you'd sit there and rubber banded to the doorknob and it was it was just hustle it was just hustle so remember um I do not unders you know I graduated may 11 had my office open september 21st and black monday was october where the market fell a quarter and all we knew is work and hustle and one other thing my hours were seven to seven seven days a week until pastor don snyder who just passed away last year came over and told me that um the the lutheran church um was outraged that I was open on the lord's day and I thought to myself you know what I actually want a day off so he had to twist my finger about this hard and we stopped the sunday thing but we still did the seven to seven monday through saturday and then and then because of supply and demand most of your friday night fights and all that bullcrap they don't even get into your office till eight they were all coming between eight to twelve so we shortened that day to just a twelve but man just get out there and hustle it still comes down to hustle and what you might not have heard come out of jeff's mouth in my mouth is that at the end of the day he was still mowing lawns when he was a doctor and jeff and Howard hustle I mean don't we work hard in hustle we were never afraid of working hard or hustling would you agree with that absolutely so name of the game get out there believe in yourself work your butt off a hustle and seriously seriously man you have so many posts on dental town I’ve been following you forever I mean you have 500 posts on dental town and none of your posts are like I agree or I disagree it's always profound it's always educational please go to his website debtfreedoctor.com and and welcome to the greatest profession on earth jeff thanks so much for coming on the show thank you and thank you for all you do for the I mean you literally got me through and I’m sure thousands and thousands of dentists can tell you this too specialists what you do to the dental student and the the specialist too to not only teach clinical stuff but learning about finances or business or starting a practice or whatever it's uh it's amazing so uh thank you so much for your resource well we'll have to uh have a beer and catch a redfish on on the uh out there and they uh buy you is that what you call it but the buy you someday the buyer the bio whatever you want to call it and eat gumbo they still they'll they'll know if there's life existing somewhere in another galaxy before they find the last ingredient in gumbo god that stuff's good so uh thank you for all you do and we'll talk to you later yes sir