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Howard Farran:
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It is just a huge honor for me, today, to be podcast interviewing orthodontist Josh Johnson, all the way from Spokane, Washington. He's a practicing orthodontist where he started a successful orthodontic practice from ground zero in 2006 just before the Great Recession. A native of the mid-West, he was born in Valley City, North Dakota outside of Fargo. He actually has not watched the movie. Unbelievable. That's the best movie ever. He attended the University of Washington School of Dentistry, graduating in the top 5% of his dental class. He's a member of the Dental Honor Society, Omicron Kappa Upsilon. Did I say it right?
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Josh Johnson:
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You got it. Omicron Kappa Upsilon.
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Howard Farran:
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Yeah, you can tell I wasn't in that distinguished genre. I can't even pronounce it and they won't return my phone calls. After dental school, Dr. Johnson completed his orthodontic specialty training at the University of Michigan where he received a Master's of Science degree prior to moving to Spokane to practice. Dr. Johnson is married to a practicing general dentist, Dr. Lisa Johnson. They have two terrific boys, and enjoy sports of all kinds, and being active outdoors. In his spare time, he enjoys reading, triathlon, and playing golf.
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I called him. I wanted to be on the show because he did something really interesting. He's got a website refer.to. Refer to. It's very cute and catchy. Refer to, where instead of asking your assistant to go get the referral pad to send this kid to a specialist, he's made it all digital on your iPhone, your computer. It's really cool. I wanted to ask you. Refer.to. It's cute and catchy. Where does .to? Is that the name of a country? How does that work? They have different suffixes endings or what?
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Josh Johnson:
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My understanding is from Tonga, actually, is where that's registered.
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Howard Farran:
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Wow! How cool! You went to GoDaddy and you got referred '.to' from Tonga? You can host that in the United States even though the domain's from Tonga?
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Josh Johnson:
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Exactly. Yeah. I gotta tell you. The idea for refer.to obviously was mine. We worked with some really smart, talented folks that have helped along the way. I can't necessarily take credit for that. It's worked out well. It says a lot about what the app accomplishes.
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Howard Farran:
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Talk us through the journey. How did you, an orthodontist, your wife, a general dentist ... What was going on in your life that made you put all this time, and money, and resources into refer.to? Tell me, at least, what it is.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Absolutely. First of all, refer.to, we exist as a company now to make life easier for dentists and the patients. With that, what we do is make life simpler for dentists by securely helping them refer patients over any platform to not only professionals, but also patients. To get the patient in the loop has been a tremendously helpful thing. It's done instantly. Refer.to is an innovative online referral platform that helps connect dentists, specialists, and patients.
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Where that came from ... We've been using it now for the last three or four years with tremendous success. When we first went to the developers like I mentioned. I'm not a programmer. Certainly the idea came from the office. They asked us what were we doing this for? Were we doing it to make referrals more easily? Are we doing it to get more referrals? What's the idea here? As you mentioned, the practice started from ground zero, but as we got busier, we needed to find ways to become more efficient and to make the processes more effective.
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For refer.to, my idea, or inspiration behind it, is we've got apps for everything now. We touch a button. As with your podcast, you touch a button, you expect things to go, right? My goal, or intent, was with that is to do it better than what we used to do. We used to do it through websites. We used to do it through triplicate referral pads. Typically, we would hope that we have the referral pad for the specialist that we're going to be working with. We would ask one of our staff members to please go and get so and so's referral pad. Hopefully, again, we have it. We'd write it out. We'd hand mom a copy. We'd file a copy.
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We're trying to go paperless and get away from this, but we'd file a copy. Then we'd send a copy. What we were finding is not only is that process inefficient in the course of our day, but six months later they've come back. Let's say we referred for wisdom teeth, and they'd want the referral again because they had lost their referral slip. Even with websites. The patient is not empowered to necessarily act on their own referral because it's communication between offices. The patient gets left out.
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I don't think that's a lot different between dentistry and even medicine. I think sometimes the patient is a little bit unaware, or unsure, that the referral's have happened in a way that's ... They're not sure where to go with it, right? The inspiration was, I wanted icon on all the computers throughout the office. Even on my iPhone and iPad. If I click on that, I want to be able to say, "This is Johnny. This is what his mom, let's say Suzy, this is what he needs." Then click on a picture of the professional that we're going to be sending it too. Then all the information will be disseminated. We'd be done with it right there. Then the patient would have the information on their phones.
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They'd be empowered to take it and go from there. What we found is not only is it tremendously efficient in our office because we can make referrals now from every chair in the office in a matter of about 30 seconds. But at the same time, the serendipitous finding is that the patients now, again, closing that referral loop, are actually following through on their referrals better rather than six months later coming back and saying, "Gosh, I need another referral for wisdom teeth." Or whatever the case might be.
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Two weeks later, the chart's on my desk. The procedure's been accomplished. I think, in terms of efficiency that day when we make the referral, it's better. It's efficient because we don't have to revisit it. It's effective because the patients are getting the treatments that they need. The offices we're referring to are obviously benefiting from that as well.
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Howard Farran:
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Have you noticed that all the smartest people in dentistry are bald? Have you noticed that? Listening to a rant like that from a bald beauty ... I know you're driving to work so you can't stop and take notes. What I do to my guests, is I go to their Twitter. If you go to my Twitter, I'm @HowardFarran. You're @getreferto. @getreferto. I just retweeted two of his tweets. One is a welcome to Denali Pediatric Dentistry, who's using your deal. Then I was very thankful. Your other tweet I retweeted, you retweeted a Dental Town article. Thank you so much for doing that.
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I just retweeted you to 20,000 of my homies. I also think that if you were on Shark Tank, Mark Cuban and Mr. Wonderful would be in love with you because you did something that they're big fans of. In order to get started, you have a light for three dollars a month. It's no referral pads. Instant distribution. Securely send referrals. Then you got the deluxe plus. No referral pads, instant distribution, securely send referrals, securely receive referrals. That's pretty smart how you have that. General Motors has the Chevy, the Pontiac, the Oldsmobile, the Cadillac. You got the Chevy for three bucks a month and the Cadillac for 30 a month.
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What were your thoughts behind doing a two tiered system? 3 and 30? I gotta throw you under a bus under one condition on that. That is the research from people who have PhDs in economics, and Nobel Prize in economics, where most of them come from University of Chicago. They actually say that when you only give them one offer, then the choices are yes or no. That has the high amount of sales. When you give them two offers, do you want the three dollars a month or 30 dollars a month? Your sales increase, but actually the research shows clearly, that when you give them three offers, high, medium, low, you get the highest number of sales. If you talked to a Nobel Laureate in economics, they would tell you, you gotta get something between three and 30. You need to figure out something that's 15. Or 18. Or something like that.
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Josh Johnson:
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We'll take note there and we'll look into that. Pretty good input, no doubt.
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Howard Farran:
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I'm not a Nobel Laureate in economics. I only have an MBA from ASU.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. A little bit about the inspiration for the send, and then the send/receive. Ideally, the real utility of this would be if we're able to communicate back and forth very efficiently. If we have the icon on there, and whomever's going to using it, if they click on it, they want to be able to not only receive referrals, but be able to send them. In the initial development of this, obviously my wife is a dentist. We work with a bunch of them. There was some feeling that they don't receive a lot of referrals necessarily from us. They wanted an option of sending only and basically having our referral.
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We gave them that option. As we've moved down the line, though, what we find is, I think that there's more referring back and forth than it was maybe initially thought that way. For example, my wife being a dentist, again, we were sitting with a practice management consultant that her office is working with. I was sharing with her about the app. She stopped and said, "Gosh, you know, that's terrific in a different arena as well because for a general dentist, one of the places that they obviously refer to frequently is the endodontists, right?" What happens if those referrals get lost? Those root canals don't get done. But what doesn't come back to them? That'd be the crown, right?
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These referrals, in terms of the communication that we have interdisciplinary ... The communication, obviously, is circular. It goes both ways. We obviously are working hard to simplify the process so the patient can take control of their own referral and situation. At the same time, for those that feel like they only are going to be referring out and sending referrals, we've given them an option. I think most that have utilized it effectively are both sending and receiving. To your point, maybe we can get a third one in there that's receive only. At the same time now, we've got either send or send and receive, and those are the two options.
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Howard Farran:
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Now, how long has it been out? 2013? Three years?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Exactly. We've been using it for about three years, yep. There's been updates and additions as we've received feedback along the way, such as yours.
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Howard Farran:
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How's it going? You got many customers?
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Josh Johnson:
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We do, yeah. Obviously in Spokane, we've got it pretty well populated here. For those that we work closely with, as you mentioned, we've got some in Alaska, Eastern and Western Washington, Florida, Arizona, Maine, Michigan, and so it's-
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Howard Farran:
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It a specialist is listening to this, or a general dentist ... Say I'm curious. I'm in Phoenix. I'd love to see who's using it in Phoenix. If my referring docs were using it, I'd do it tomorrow. Do you give that? Is that private information?
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Josh Johnson:
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No. If you sign up ... There's a three month free trial. You sign up and there's a directory there. You can check who's in the directory. There's a really powerful search feature there that you can look by zip code. Whatever information is in their profile, which they've updated within the app itself, you can search by that. It's city, name, practice name, zip code, whatever information they've posted.
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Howard Farran:
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How's Phoenix going for you?
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Josh Johnson:
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Phoenix is sparse. We need your help there, Howard.
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Howard Farran:
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All right. I think it's cool. I also want to know ... I always tell Jan to get the referral. If I got that $30 a month package, is that just for one device? Could she have it on her iPhone, me have it on my iPhone, have it on different desktops? How many users?
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Josh Johnson:
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That's a practice username and account. You can use that across as many devices as you wish whether it be your phone. We've got it on all the computers in the office. Multiple users. If they've got a group practice, again, you would just pay for the subscription. It's by the month. You'd pay for it for the office. If you've got multiple providers in a group practice, they would all be using the same account. We've tried to make that very economically efficient. The real utility for all of this, Howard, all of us, is the more people that are able to use it, the more we're going to be connected to each other and enabled too. We just referred a patient to Houston the other day that's transferring. They needed an orthodontist down in Houston. Not only do we have the ability to refer across town, we could be referring transfer patients that way as well. T
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he real utility is the more people that get in and join. We've tried to create a very price efficient situation to where that is not much a hurdle. If you take into account the cost of a referral pad, that's very simply, but at the same time ... I think the real value to those is not only the efficiency and the effectiveness, but if you think about ... Let's say wisdom teeth again. If you think about one patient that may or may not have found the oral surgeon, I think the real lost opportunity cost is pretty obvious if you pick up an extra patient or two along the way because they've actually acted upon the referral. I think the monthly subscription rate, hopefully, is a real drop in the bucket.
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Howard Farran:
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I think on this podcast, we put on Dental Town, Hygiene Town, Ortho Town. We also put it on YouTube, Facebook, iTunes. I really like that video on your website. You did that real well. You oughta email that to me and Ryan. We'll attach that at the end of this. Do you want to do that?
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Josh Johnson:
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Absolutely. Fantastic. We would be happy to do that, yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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Yeah, that would be great. Now, has any orthodontists use this to try to increase their referrals from general dentists? By signing up the dentists in their hood?
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Josh Johnson:
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Absolutely. Again, it's one of those deals ... When we initially developed, the inspiration was to make things more efficient-effective in our office. Part of the questions of the developers, again, is this to send out referrals more easily or to get them? It's kind of like, again, an analogy would be what Amazon does with-
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Howard Farran:
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Try to increase-
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Josh Johnson:
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Buy their book. If we make it more efficient and easy for them to send us patients, as orthodontists, one would think it's going to facilitate that and then make it easier. In the middle of busy days, naturally, if you have to stop and there's a hitch in the giddy-up in terms of making a referral, that might stymie that process. If we make it very smooth and efficient for them ... We've seen it certainly help us. I can't speak for others as to whether they've signed up and what their success has been. I know from someone that refers out, as well as receives referrals, it's worked great for us.
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Howard Farran:
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It seems like the people that do everything the smartest is ... Most dentists spend all day working in their business, and then at night, they're too exhausted to work on their business. Whenever you have a franchise situation, you got these franchisee ladder of management that's always working on the business. Have you tried to go to Rick Workman of Heartland and trying to get him to roll that out to his 1,400 dentists? Or Steve Thorn of Pacific Dental, to roll it out to their 500 dentists? Have you gone out and tried to get some of the big dogs?
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Josh Johnson:
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We haven't reached out to them yet, no. That'd be a great idea.
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Howard Farran:
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Send me your best pitch to Howard@dentaltown.com and I'll reply back to Rich Workman at Heartland and Steve Thorn at Pacific and say, "You might want to check this out." These are the people that, if it makes business sense, they're done. Dentists are usually paralysis by analysis. They overanalyze everything. They're paralyzed by the decision making process. You know what I mean? Send your best pitch about this to me at howard@dentaltown.com then I'll reply it back to Rick Workman at Heartland Dental and to Steve Thorn of Pacific Dental, and it'd be amazing. These guys are big accounts. And you never know. If they rolled it out and had 1,400 dentists using it, they might find some other feature they want you to add or something. You know what I mean?
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Josh Johnson:
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Absolutely. Yeah. We get feedback all the time about various ways that others use it, perhaps, differently than we do. I think that the biggest that we espouse with, refer.to, is again, we want to make things simple, right? If it's not simple, we're probably not going to use it and nor will anybody else. It also has to be secure. Those pillars are what we're looking for. As we add things, we want to maintain that simplicity, and usability, and of course, the security is imperative. If it's not secure, we can't use it.
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Howard Farran:
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What's it like when you go home at night, when you and your wife are both in dentistry? Do you guys, since you're both in it, love it and talk about it all night? Do you have rules that say, "Hey, it's five o'clock. No more dentistry."? How's that work when you're married to a dentist?
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Josh Johnson:
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That's a great question, Howard. That was dental school and not anymore. She was at the University of Washington the same time I was there. Thankfully, we got two boys that are really active. Our conversations are more focused on their activities, and who's going where, and when, and bringing things back together after all of it, and how to go. Fortunately, it's more family oriented now and less teeth. That keeps us all moving forward.
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Howard Farran:
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How old are your boys?
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Josh Johnson:
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Nine and just turned seven.
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Howard Farran:
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Nine and seven?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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It seems like yesterday that Ryan sitting next to me was nine and seven. You talk about getting continued education to get really good at what we do to increase the team's overall productivity and enjoyment. What do you mean by that?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Absolutely. I was just at the AAO. I have to give props to Daryl Davis. I saw him speak. You may have seen him before, he's a comedian. He's done some research into the Smile Right. He hit it on the head. In terms of what we do every day, right? If we back up a step, obviously we rely on referrals and all the metrics we keep track of in terms of exams, and all of the productivity, and all of that. I think before you even get to the point of a referral, patients have to feel good, right? They have to feel good about the end product that you're delivering.
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They also have to feel good about the experience. I would take it even one step beyond that. Before the patients feel good, you have to have a staff that feels good. In order to be comfortable in doing what we do every day ... It's kind of a dance. It's a high-wire act sometimes. The enjoyment level comes up the better you get. If you're not really proficient. If you're not really sure of the systems that are in place or your own abilities, I think that goes for all of us, you're a little bit uneasy, a little bit uncomfortable.
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If you're going to pull that off, and do it well, and feel good about it during the day and the end of the day, I think it's important to really hone your skills. Whether you're a hula hooper that can dance while you're hula hooping, or you're a dental assistant, or orthodontic assistant that's trying to work your way through a busy day. Or a practitioner. I think the better we get at what we do and the more we hone our skills, the more we can do the dance and smile throughout the process. I think it feels good for us, and it also feels good for the team around you, and also the patients that come through and see us. I think that's probably not unique to dentistry, but I think the better you get, the better you function, the better you feel.
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Howard Farran:
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You know, they never remember what we did. They always remember how we made them feel. Every time, I see an orthodontist just crushing it. You walk in there and it's just this fun environment. You can feel it and sense it. They have video games and ice cream things. You can just feel the fun. Then you walk into another orthodontist's office right across the street, and he's doing one 1/4 the sales and you feel like you just walked into a library.
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Josh Johnson:
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Sure. Yeah. No. I would agree. Again, we work there. It's part of the energy. It's part of the fun. It's one of the things that I pay attention too. Obviously, the business side of it. How are things going that way? And how all of this feeds into that, but at the same time, at the end of the day, we're part of a team. We walk out with our team at the end of the day. I think it's important that we do a good job, but we also feel good about it during and after for everybody's sake.
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Howard Farran:
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So you were at the AAO meeting, just a couple weeks ago, in San Diego?
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Josh Johnson:
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That's correct. Yep.
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Howard Farran:
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Yeah. Just when you and your wife were talking, who do you think's got more competition and supply and demand? What do you think gets more competitive? Being an orthodontist or a general dentist?
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Josh Johnson:
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Oh, that's a good one, Howard. I think in the market that we're in, I don't know that it's necessarily more for one or the other. I just know it's competitive. Again, I think that's ... If you think of the exams and all of that that you try to generate, I think it's kind of a wooden philosophy to think that we've espoused in the sense that we take care of what we can and do it the best that we can. Obviously, you don't want to stick your head in the sand as to what's going on around you. At the same time, we're focused on what we do.
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It's incredibly competitive both ways. I think there's supply demand wise, there's a lot of us out there being dentists and orthodontists. I think it's good. It's competitive and it forces us to be our best. I don't know if I can necessarily say one or the other. I think we just all have to be on top of our game and do a good job. There's a place for good work. I trained under Lionel Johnston. At one point, he was asked where would be a good place to go and practice. Without quoting him, which would be hard to do, you could more or less go anywhere you want but do good job.
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Howard Farran:
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Nice. You talk about something ... I love it when people talk about it. You talk about following bench marks to monitor practice systems effectiveness. That's the weakest area in every dental office known to man. They don't know their numbers. They love doing the dentistry. I get that. It's fun. But what benchmarks do you follow to monitor your practice effectiveness?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Absolutely. We share a lot of this with our team. I think it's helpful when we all know what direction we're going in and where we are at. We empower them to take action around goals. Obviously, we track how many new patients. How many people are finding us? We track the production that's taking place. How are we doing in terms of collecting? What's been produced? But at the same time, we track what's going out the door for marketing. How effective is that? How do our numbers stand in terms of rent? There's a number of practice management gurus out there that help with these various areas. We don't necessarily dwell on them. We make them known to throughout the office. Again, it allows them to actually help do something about it. We can see trends. At the same time ... About 10+ years ago now, when I put the office together, we worked with some of the systems that Charlene White put out there. I know there's a number of other good ones.
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Howard Farran:
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I just did a podcast with her. It's posted. She's amazing. She's been doing this 30 years. Gosh, she's amazing.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Absolutely. We worked with her, not only to set things up before with the materials that we had that she put out, but at the same time, even to fine-tune things a little bit. Again, as things grow, inefficiencies start to rear their head. Sometimes it takes an expert to diagnose and help with some of those things. As with the team itself, and those that we work with in other business endeavors, I think that takes some humility and understanding that you can't do it yourself. Get good people around you such as Charlene or others, and a good crew. It can make things, not only more enjoyable, but certainly more effective.
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Howard Farran:
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So Charlene White only does orthodontists, correct?
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Josh Johnson:
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That's my understanding, yes.
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Howard Farran:
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Yeah. Did you think that was a return on investment?
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Josh Johnson:
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Absolutely. Oh yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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By number of what?
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Josh Johnson:
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Oh, gosh. I'd say at least five times what we-
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Howard Farran:
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I know, I know. Every time you meet a big dog, they always say, "Well, here's my secret sauce. When I started out in my office, I got Sandy Purdue or some consultant. She set everything up right. Got my house in order. We've been sailing ever since. That's what I want them to get. I want them to get their house poised for growth." You own your own office, right?
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Josh Johnson:
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That's correct. Yep.
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Howard Farran:
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Now, does your wife? Does she own her own office?
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Josh Johnson:
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She doesn't right now, Howard, but interesting question. She's actually in the process of purchasing it from her dad. She's worked with him for the last 10 years. They're going through a transition right now. She will be in the next few months.
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Howard Farran:
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Wow! She's married to a dentist, she's the daughter of a dentist. Is she on any psychiatric medications or does she just use vodka, and beer, and a couple of shooters every day?
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Josh Johnson:
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No, she works out. I think a little bit of that and some alone time every now and then's good.
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Howard Farran:
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That is so cool. I don't want to get personal, but I just think that's so cool that she's been working for her dad for 10 years. How cool is that?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. It's been a great deal for both of them. Her aunt is a hygienist in their office. It's within the family. They've had the same crew for a long time. They've got a good thing going there.
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Howard Farran:
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That is so cool! Would you describe her as a soccer mom where she only wants to work three days a week, leave at five o'clock, have nothing to do with it as so many people try to stereotype that's what a lot of the women graduating dental school are going to be? Do you see her as ambitious as you? Both want to do the Monday through Friday, eight to five thing?
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Josh Johnson:
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You know, she's ... It's interesting you say that. She's actually working three days now. She's a bit more of our social coordinator at home than I certainly am. I think after we started a family, she went back, tried the two days, the three days, the four days. For her, especially with the situation that as it turned out with her dad, it's been a great deal for each of them. They've worked three days a piece. They overlap in the middle. It's worked out great that way. She's kind of found her comfort zone and hit her stride that way. When she buys the practice and her dad ... He'll be working back for her some in the transitional process, but eventually she's going to end up, most likely, with a partner and associate that would fill some of the role in terms of the patient days that her dad was doing.
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Howard Farran:
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Now, what you do is as soon as it's closed, then that's when you tell dad that there's no more overlap on Wednesday. You're working Saturday. I'm working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. He's going to work Thursday ... Just say that's the deal or I'll fire you, Dad!
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Josh Johnson:
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She better be careful what she wishes for. I know he enjoys the lake. He might spend more time at the lake that way and say, "Thank you very much."
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Howard Farran:
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Did she use a different consultant? Does she have a dental consultant that worked for her and her dad? You said you used Charlene White at your orthodontic practice.
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Josh Johnson:
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It's Act.
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Howard Farran:
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Act?
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Josh Johnson:
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Act. Yep.
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Howard Farran:
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Kirk Barrett out of Kansas City?
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Josh Johnson:
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You got it. That's it. Yep.
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Howard Farran:
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Love him! Love him! I went to dental school in Kansas. He's just a good old boy. That is so cool! You got Charlene White for your orthodontic practice, we did a podcast. Your wife got Kirk. Did a podcast with him. You're just so damn smart. Both you and your wife have a practice and got consulting services to set it up a solid foundation, get poised for growth. I want to ask you. This is dentistry uncensored, so we talk about the things that are controversial that no one wants to talk about. What does it make you feel like? You're married to a general dentist. Your father-in-law's a general dentist. What do you, as an orthodontist, feel like when some general dentist in your hood starts doing Invisalign?
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Josh Johnson:
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You know what, there's enough for all of us to do, Howard. It really doesn't bother me that much. One of the things that I truly believe that there's a large segment of the population out there that, quite frankly, would not do braces. If they would rather live with their malocclusion than to do braces, obviously a big part of our practice is Invisalign. You could look at it as if it was a territorial thing. But at the same time, I think if you look at all of the people out there that ... Certainly, we have the teens that do braces and prefer that.
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But in terms of the adults, the relapse, even teens now, that would prefer Invisalign, I think there's ... When you look at the size of the population, the small percentage of them really that are doing braces ... When you add ... I think the circle just gets bigger. I think there's more of a pie to share. I don't think that we're necessarily taking each other's piece of the pie. I would rather have dentists with an understanding of what we're doing and work with them through the various referrals than not perhaps. I supposed you could look at it as if that's biting into what we do. I don't necessarily agree with that.
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Howard Farran:
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Love you. Love you. Love you. I mean, my favorite characteristic of another human is when they think in hope, growth, and abundancy. Not fear and scarcity. The fear scarcity think the pie is limited and if you take half the pie, I only get half. Or the hope, growth and abundancy people say, "Hey, let's work together and make the pie two to three times larger." Here's another thing. We got all these kids graduating. We got 6,000 kids graduating next week, going into dentistry. A lot of them think to take continuing education, they gotta buy an airplane ticket and fly across the country and drop a bunch of money in San Diego or something.
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I always say, "God, just walk across the street." But they think, "Well, I can't walk across the street to the man Josh Johnson and ask him if he'll help me do my first Invisalign case. He's going to be thinking no, I want the Invisalign case. You refer it to me. In fact, I made a referral app. Refer.to. You don't do it. I'll do it." What would you do if a little 25 year old girl walked in your office, and she was up the street from you, and she said, "I want to learn Invisalign. Will you show me how to do it?"
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Josh Johnson:
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I think we would share our knowledge. As orthodontists, obviously going to the AAO, going to the various Invisalign meetings and so forth, we're learning from other orthodontists or other specialists that have done more of it, and have tips and tricks, and best practices that we are absorbing in. To continue the circle there, you'll pass it along. Again, if you're going to do it, do it successfully. Enjoy it. By all means. There's going to be times where we might have a practice situation where we have to ask them. Again, pass it one.
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Howard Farran:
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You know, you can't be afraid of rejection. Anybody good in sales, when someone says no, they don't bat an eye. They just say okay. Like in cars, a lot of them are brainwashed. They love it when a person says no because they know they have to get nine no's to sell a car. Every time they rack up another no, they just smell they're closer to selling another car. If you're struggling with Endo, go knock on the endodontist's door across the street from you. If he doesn't want to help you learn endo and says, "Just refer it to me." Just smile and say, "Okay. Great idea." And then walk across the street to the other endodontist. I think at least half of the dentists think in hope, growth, and abundancy. Half think in fear and scarcity. If you go knock on some door and they slam it in your face, smile real big and say, "I need that because now I know the next guy is going to open my door."
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I want to get to technology because when you talk about Invisalign, they're the ones who created the brand. I have to congratulate them. I think that was the biggest brand created in dentistry in my 30 years. When I got into dentistry, they already had Colgate, and Listerine, and all those, Crest. But Invisalign is probably as big as Crest or Colgate. Everybody knows about it. But now there's other ones. There's Clear Aligners. There's also intra-oral scanning. Are you taking impressions and sending to the lab? Or did you use Invisalign and use their Itero scanner to send in a digital impression? Or are you using a generic clear aligner?
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Josh Johnson:
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No, we're using the Itero element. We're sending that along for our Invisalign patients. When you think about it from ... Convenience, ultimately, is king. As far as consumer, people are busy. People want things to be done efficiently. People don't necessarily, no matter how well we do it at the office, don't necessarily want to be coming more than they need too. The advent of these ... The Itero ... We have the element currently. The efficiency of the scan. Boy, they are fantastic. I highly recommend those. The staff love it. The patients certainly like that in contrast to a PBS impression, perhaps. We've taken that step further and even used it for expanders. We use it for all of the other different holding appliances. Retainers, that sort of thing.
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Again, when you've got young kids, if you can do that and take a scan over the course of, let's say 30 to a minute, versus taking impressions, it's a benefit for the patient. It's an efficiency for us. The efficiency comes in not only from the immediate time that it takes to scan or versus the impression, but the impression then has to be poured up. The impression has to be then trimmed. The impression has to be sent out the door. The room has to be cleaned up. Those are efficiencies within our office that are obviously very tangible. At the same time, the patient experience is improve as well. We use the element for Invisalign, absolutely. We've had great success that way with the efficiency of all of that. But we also use it for a lot of other appliances as well. I highly recommend it.
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Howard Farran:
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What percent of your practice is Invisalign versus fixed?
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Josh Johnson:
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Right now it's probably bout 20% Invisalign and 80% fixed. I think the trend is for that to be changing, though. In the sense that with teen cases now, there was this notion that teens may not comply as well, and this sort of thing, as adults. But boy, in our experience, they've done tremendously well. There's an efficiency there, even, that perhaps is better than with fixed appliances, you can start rubber bands earlier. We don't have to wait until we work up to a certain arched wire to actually things going. We've seen teens. Not only do you have the growth on your side in that, but with the help of parents and mature teens, they really knocked it out of the park in terms of efficiency. Also, the end results have been tremendous. If that wasn't the case, obviously, the story sort of ends there. We're sort of getting the best of both worlds, a little bit, with these guys. I sense that it's going to be more as we move forward.
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Howard Farran:
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Who would be the next biggest leader after Invisalign in the clear aligners space?
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Josh Johnson:
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Clear Correct would likely be second. Third place, couldn't say, necessarily. We see a lot of material from Clear Correct.
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Howard Farran:
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Clear Correct?
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Josh Johnson:
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Correct. Yep.
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Howard Farran:
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Are they out of Dallas?
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Josh Johnson:
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I believe so. Yes.
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Howard Farran:
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Was the guy who started Clear Correct also the guy who started Invisalign?
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Josh Johnson:
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I do remember something about that. There was also another player for a while. Orthoclear, I believe. He may have been related to that crew.
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Howard Farran:
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Yeah. Interesting. There's a lot of ... You know, an airplane. In my entire life, the airplanes have gotten, bigger, fatter, nicer, more fuel efficient. But they still just go that 550 miles an hour. They never increase the speed. That's the way Ortho was for a long time. But now you're starting to see technology to increase the speed. Are you using any technology to increase the speed so not every case is a two year case? Now you can do some of them in a year?
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Josh Johnson:
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Absolutely. Again, getting back to Invisalign, especially with the teen cases, I think there's definitely an efficiency there with the class two correction. Again, you can get started with rubber bands earlier. Those are moving along quite rapidly. Sure Smile is another player in that space with the wires that can be scanned. That way, you're going from A to Z in a little bit more direct fashion. You're not getting some of the unwanted tooth movement that happens, but then you have to go back and tidy up at the end of arch-wire bands. That's another effective solution. In our hands, the transition to more Invisalign is where we're seeing it most.
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Howard Farran:
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But there's other technologies. There's microperforations. There's vibrations. You using any of that stuff?
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Josh Johnson:
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We've done very little bit of Propel, which is the microperforations. As far as the vibration technology, we have not utilized that at all at this point.
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Howard Farran:
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What was the other? You said there was Clear Correct, Orthoclear. What was the one that started with Sure?
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Josh Johnson:
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Sure Smile? Yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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Sure Smile? Those are all clear aligners?
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Josh Johnson:
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No. Sure Smile's actually robotically bent wires. You scan with brackets on. Then you would have the alloclusion as it currently is. As much as it's clinched at. You'd put it together, a final result. Then there's robotically bent arch-wires, actually, versus manually doing that. There's stainless steel wires. There's TMA wires. There's nine tie wires. There's an efficiency there. If you're getting the wires ... We can't bend nine tie wires. If you can have a nine tie wire that's soft and bendable at the beginning of treatment, not only are you getting some of those final bands in earlier, but some of the round-tripping that would happen conventionally isn't necessarily happening there. It's more like traditional braces, but it's a high tech robotically bent wire.
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Howard Farran:
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Do you use your Invisalign Intero scanner? You put on the brackets? Then are you scanning it with your Itero, and then sending it to Sure Smile, then they overnight you a robotically bent wire? Is that how it works?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Essentially, yeah. It's not overnight, but yeah, that's the way it works.
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Howard Farran:
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But it's through Sure Smile? You're using the Itero scanner?
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Josh Johnson:
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Correct.
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Howard Farran:
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But it's not owned by Invisalign? You're using the Itero scanner, but sending the scan to Sure Smile instead of Invisalign to robotically bend that wire?
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Josh Johnson:
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Correct. Sure Smile, the parent company, I believe, is Orametrics. They're out of Dallas.
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Howard Farran:
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Orametrics?
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Josh Johnson:
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Orametrics. O-R-A-Metrics. Yep.
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Howard Farran:
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Out of Dallas?
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Josh Johnson:
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Correct.
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Howard Farran:
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That is interesting. Some people ... What do you think about ... Some people say, "Well, Invisalign, having a tray once a month goes all the way back to a gazillion years ago when you had a monthly appointment because people would come in and make a monthly payment." That the monthly appointment was tied to the monthly payment, but maybe if you switched out the Invisalign tray every two weeks, instead of every four weeks, the case would go twice as fast. Is that true? Or not really?
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Josh Johnson:
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It's interesting that you mentioned that. They recently recommended that we actually look at changing the trays once a week now. We've gone to that. For most people, they're tracking beautifully. The advanced attachment technology has certainly helped with some of the more difficult movements that way. We're trading them out once a week. Again, that's part of the efficiency as well. We're treating these cases pretty quickly. In terms of tying the billing to actual appointments and so forth, that's pretty much gone away in our office. We use OrthoBanc to help automate those payments.
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The payment, again, has been disassociated from the actual appointments. I think another challenge we're going to continue to need to confront, is the length of time that the families are paying for their treatment. If we're treating cases that used to be 18 months in about a year, the monthly payment ... If it's comfortable up to about $200, on average, you can't necessarily be bringing the payment terms to match the treatment time very comfortably for the family.
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We're going to have to be extending things out and mitigating our risks that way in terms of collecting the rest of the fee. I think a lot of that, the mitigation of the risk, is the experience that they have and the rapport that you have with the family. If people like you, chances are they're probably going to pay their bill. Once in a while, we might get burned. But at the same time, by and large, we've not run into that just yet. I think that's going to be coming more as the treatments become more and more efficient.
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Howard Farran:
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You said you use OrthoBanc for that. What is their website? Www.OrthoBanc?
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Josh Johnson:
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I couldn't say. I would guess so if you looked up OrthoBanc, yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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Why are you using OrthoBanc for that? Why?
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Josh Johnson:
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It's automated. It's set up at the beginning. They choose the monthly payment. It's an automatic bank draft that happens once a month. We receive the payments to our office once a week so the patients have an option of the first week, second week, third week, fourth week for the bank drafts to happen. It's automated that way in that way we're not sending statements. OrthoBanc takes care of some of the interaction that way. They pay us accordingly.
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Howard Farran:
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Do they have a general dentist finance option for you wife and father-in-law's practice? Is OrthoBanc only to orthodontists?
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Josh Johnson:
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They don't use that service, but I believe that they have a ... Perhaps they call it DentalBanc, I'm not entirely sure. I think they have something there. I couldn't say for 100% certainty.
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Howard Farran:
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It's not OrthoBanc with a K, B-A-N-K. It's OrthoBanc, B-A-N-C. What I try to do, to help my homies, because I know they're driving, I tweet their Twitters. So OrthoBanc, we had a great time at AAO, thanks to everybody who stopped by. You can email them marketing at orthobanc.com. I just retweeted that. Now I need to go to referto.com ... Refer.to for Tonga. That's so cool that you did that. I'm going to go to your twitter. Oh, I already retweeted your Twitter, right? Yeah. Okay. I already did that.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. I appreciate that.
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Howard Farran:
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They say in the industry that the average new patient is worth $6500 to an orthodontist and they recoup that in two years or less. For a family dentist, it's still the same $6500, but it's recouped over five years. Then the average patient is usually off to another dental office, which is what we see where the average dentist has 5,000 charts, only 1,000 are active. That's hygienist, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, that's 2,000 hours seeing 1,000 people twice a year while 4,000 never came back. Is that what you and your wife are seeing in your microeconomics? A new patient's worth about $6500?
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Josh Johnson:
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Probably close to that. I think in our market here it might be a little bit less than that. I think that'd be pretty realistic and close, yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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Do you and your ... You being an orthodontist, and your wife and father-in-law being general dentists, do you spend the same percent on marketing? Do you both have a budget that you spend on marketing? Is it a percent of revenue?
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Josh Johnson:
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Correct. We spend about 3-4%. I can't necessarily speak for what they do. I think it's probably less for them, at this point. Given the transition and so forth, it's probably going to come more into line, but I can't necessarily speak for them. We're about 3% or 4%.
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Howard Farran:
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It seems like orthodontists and cosmetic dentists are the ones that spend the most. If I ever meet anyone spending 6% or 7% in collection on marketing, it's always an orthodontist or a high-end cosmetic dentist.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. I think a lot of that has to do with, for us at least, Howard, in the sense that our patient population turns over every two years. We're consistently needing new patients. Especially as we treat them faster now. We have to be continuing that process and filling the chairs with new exams and so forth. Thankfully, as the practice grows and matures, and so forth, it becomes a lot of friends, family that are second, third, and fourth family members and friends that are those exams. But at the same time, it takes a lot of new patients to keep things busy.
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Howard Farran:
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Have you read any studies ... Back to refer.to ... What percent of referrals ... Is there any industry data on what percent of referrals actually go to their referring specialist? I'm not saying that they actually got treatment, but actually just walked in the door and/or what percent actually walked in the door and got it done? Do you have any data on that? To where your refer to might be able to increase that closure rate?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Exactly. The studies out there are fairly limited. If the one study that sticks out in my mind, it was about 20%, which is seemingly pretty low. It was an older study. At the same time, it was 20%. Quite frankly ... Again, I don't have the statistics in our office. That's about what it feels like in terms of referring. Whether it's primary teeth to the pediatric dentist or general dentist, or wisdom teeth, it's unfortunately low.
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Howard Farran:
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You know what I like the most about your refer.to product is that a lot of dentists ... I thought it was kind of silly to be sending four set of wisdom teeth to an oral surgeon every week for a year, then at Christmas get a box of cookies. I thought it was far more valuable to send the treatment plan to the oral surgeon. Say, "Dude, when you're in there, this person needs six cavities. Can you back me up and tell them the importance of getting these $250 cavities filled so they don't turn into $2,000 root canals and crowns?" There was a lot of oral surgeons and dentists on Dental Town that got this going.
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They said that it used to be, I'd send them four wisdom teeth, they'd max out the $1,000 max. I wouldn't see the patient again for two or three years. It'd be a tooth ache. Then they started doing this process. The oral surgeon put the pano up on the light box said, "Hey, you know you got eight cavities right? You're only going to be sore for a week or two after this, but you need to get back into that dentist and get these filled or you might be back here getting more teeth filled." To have a specialist go over your treatment plan is the best thing you could do for the patient and your business.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. The more education that happens, the more understanding, the more you empower them to act on their own behalf and share with them. In our situation, a lot of times, the kids are young. We share with them, "These permanent teeth might be new, but at the same time, you need them for the next 80 or 90 years." The more you can educate them as to ... They're only with us for once out of every two months or so for a half hour. At the same time, you're absolutely right. Whether it's getting treatment back to the general dentist or just educating them that this is what we're seeing. This is what ... You just really need to be on top of that. As with refer.to, the more you educate them and empower to take care of themselves, I think it's obviously best for them. I think in the larger circle of things, that's work we end up needing to do. Perhaps, sometimes if you're preventative and you're stopping something from happening further or worse, fantastic. Because it's in the patient's best interest.
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Howard Farran:
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Yeah. I wonder if it would be ... You talk about what percent of referrals from general dentists go to the specialists. You said you saw an older site, 20%. I wonder if you could transfer more recent studies. There's so much more studies in medicine because there's over one million MDs in the United States. In fact, there's only 10,000 orthodontists. There's 40,000 DOs. I wonder what percent of prescriptions actually get filled at Walgreens and CVC. I wonder if that data would be close to going to their referrals.
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I read all the time that when these doctors, these general physicians, they go in there and they say, "Okay, I need you to go see a cardiologist for this. An internist for your thyroid or diabetes." They send them to three different places. Grandpa just walks out the door and throws them right in the trash can. I've heard as much as 1/3 of prescriptions don't even get filled. Of course, it doesn't help that the doctor writes it in Latin. So when grandpa didn't remember what he said, he's looking at some Latin. God forbid you'd say, "Take this blue pill every day or you'll have a stroke." He's gotta do it, "Q46HPRN." You know. Latin crap.
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. I get it. Coming back to what we do, in terms of Grandpa walking out the door and really not knowing what the next step is or acting upon it, I think that's not usual where patients will ... I was just speaking to a soccer mom the other day. She asked, "What do I need to do about this situation?" Gosh, that's a sticky one to get in the middle of. She shared her story. It was an orthodontist on the other side of town that mentioned he would send a referral over to the dentist, and she wasn't sure if it happened or not. Then she calls the office, which, of course, is inefficient. In the end, she felt like the wrong teeth were taken out. "What do I do about this?" She asked me. Well, first of all, you need to talk to them. Second of all, you probably need to tell them about refer.to because had they used that, mom would know what was sent.
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Typically when the referrals are sent, when we click the button, we say, "Mom, as soon as your phone goes ding, you're going to know Dr. So and So has the referral." On mom's referral, she'll know what was asked for. It closes that loop and helps them get there. With them being able to take care of their own care that way, not only are the only are the other offices able to follow through with them, but it's kind of like a hip. The physican sends the referral to my orthopedic specialist. Am I supposed to follow through? Whatever the case may be, there's confusion in that system. Whereas now, when you hit the button, everybody has the same information. Mom has it on her phone. You can actually do something about it. We don't have the statistics, but people are actually acting upon these more effectively.
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Howard Farran:
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I have another thing we have so much in common. Of course, I wrote a book called Uncomplicated Business. I wrote it when I turned 50. I was already a dentist with an MBA. Crushing it for half a century. I wrote my book Uncomplicated Business, it's on Amazon. It's got 50 five star reviews or whatever. You mentioned your favorite book. It's actually my favorite. We have the same favorite book. My favorite business author of all time is James C. Collins. When I got out of school, the first one I read was Built to Last. Then the one you mentioned was Good to Great. You're giving away your age. That means you're over 40. Are you over 40?
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Josh Johnson:
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Little bit, yeah.
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Howard Farran:
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I'm 54. Only a 54 year old would remember Built to Last. I don't recommend reading that so much because it was long time ago. Then there was Good to Great. But his new one was Great by Choice. That came out in 2011. Built to Last was 1994. Good to Great was 2001. Did you read his third one, Great by Choice in 2011?
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Josh Johnson:
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I have not, no.
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Howard Farran:
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Here's the story on this guy. What he is, is he's a business guy. He's in Colorado. He's got all these grad students. What they do is they do a ton of research for five years. After five years, they summarize all this work, then they write a book. The first one was '94, Built to Last. Then in 2001, he did Good to Great. Then he did my favorite, 2009, How the Mighty Fell. Then he just did the last one was Great by Choice, 2011. I'm sure he'll be coming out with one. I liked How the Mighty Fall.
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When he did all that research, three of his books were, "How do the good ones go great? What did they all have in common from a research point of view, not some fluff? Not some fad. So much of practice management and leadership is all fads and all this stuff." I thought to myself, "Hell, why don't you just do the reverse? Let's look at all the ones that fell from grace and what do they do?" I actually think How the Mighty Fell is actually the shortest book, fastest read because it's pretty simple why most people fail. It's a lot more complex how they do great. What did Jim Collins ... What did that book Good to Great, what did that mean to you? Why did you ...
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Josh Johnson:
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What really sticks out is just getting the right people on the bus, Howard. In terms of there's some really talented people that not only enjoyable to work next to, but also can do things, often times, better than we can. Whether we like to admit it or not. The various personalities within the office have various strengths. Not only with the way they get along with each other, the way they treat the patients, and the way you can use those strengths. Not only getting the right people on the bus, but getting them in the right seats. It's a challenge sometimes, but that's what we strive for. I think, for the most highly effective team, the people involved are the ones that really make it happen. From there, you create a vision, and you educate, and give them the autonomy and the empowerment to do their thing. Again, we work with some really talented people in our office. I'm really grateful for them. It makes a big difference in terms of how the team functions and the product that we put out.
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Howard Farran:
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Right on. That was the fastest hour I've ever done. I can't believe we went over an hour. That's our brand, an hour. That's their average commute. That's how long they want to stay on the StairMaster or the treadmill. It's about 85% are on their commute to work. The other 4-15% unfortunate ones are on the treadmill or the StairMaster. I hope it's the treadmill and they got the one that actually goes downhill. That's what I want to buy. I want to buy the treadmill where the back goes up and you just fall forward for an hour. The bottom line, we got 6,000 people graduating next week from dental school. Final thoughts. What advice would you give 6,000 kids as they just graduate from dental school in America and join our sovereign profession? What would you say to them?
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Josh Johnson:
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Like I mentioned, surround yourself with good people. Do what you want to do, where you want to do it. Find the place you want to be. Then follow your passions. Get educated. Do it very very well. You're going to enjoy it. It's going to serve you well. Your patients are going to appreciate it. Happy patients probably is going to ultimately more of what you're loving doing.
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Howard Farran:
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They always say ... Every psychologist, psychiatrist says you're basically a summary of your five closest friends. Just surround yourself with good people. If your best drinking buddy from dental school hates dentistry and is always whining, complaining, you need to upgrade your friends. I think some of the most serious, best advice anyone can do is edit their friends. I remember when I went to Creighton, the first day I was there, there were 88 boys on my floor. I sat and I looked at the ones who wanted to go drinking and dancing and being crazy and all that stuff. I just kept thinking to myself, "Okay, I have to get into dental school. I cannot be turned down. I don't have a backup plan. This is all I want to do. This is my dream. Who are the most likely boys out of this 88 who I know will get in dental school?"
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Everyone I picked ... It was Joe Dovekin becoming an Oz, it was Randy Kerwin, it Gary Assauldi. You just know who they're going to be. I just modeled myself after them. I'd say, "Hey do you want to go watch Monday night football/" They'd go, "Hell no, dude, there's a test tomorrow. We're going to the library." I'd say, "Rats, because I'm already committed to mirroring you. I'm going to do what you do. I know you're going to make it." I just did what they did. Same thing when you open up your practice. What I love most about getting my FAGD, is that when you would go to those AGD courses, everyone in that room was going for their FAGD, their MAGD. They were all going for it. They were all optimists.
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If you surround yourself with a bunch of drinking, whining, moaning, complaining, the sky is falling ... They always divert everything to politics. They spend all their time backseat driving Trump, and North Korea, and Putin, as if any of that's going to affect your practice. You just get with the right people, like you, who think in hope, growth, and abundancy. Let's all grow the pie. I've referred so many patients to general dentists in my zip code that I thought would be a better cosmetic dentist. Obviously, Tom Mattern up the street can do implants better than me, 10-1, 100-1. Think in hope, growth, and abundancy. Read Good to Great. Read all four Jim Collins books after you read my Uncomplicated Business. I have a thread on Dental Town called The 20 Greatest Orthodontic Podcasts of All Time. Ryan, when we release his, let's add him to that list. Are more of your customer orthodontists or general dentists?
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Josh Johnson:
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We've got a pretty good mix at this point. Oral surgeons, general dentists are probably the most prevalent. There's certainly a number of orthodontists as well.
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Howard Farran:
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You might want to write an article about it on ... If it's not just a sales speech, if it's value added, if you would learn something from reading about why you did this journey. You are an orthodontist married to dentist. Send the article to Dan@orthotown.com is that, or Ortho Town. Tom Jacoby is Tom at Dental Town. He's the editor of Dental Town since year 2000. Or just send it to me and I'll reply it back. I think what you're doing is amazing. I would love, in my office personally, when I say, "Get a referral." Jan has to leave the room and go to this one closet where all these bins of all these referral pads. I'd love it if she just took of her gloves, pulled out her iPhone, went to refer ... tap, tap, tap, tap ... I also love that feature, which I saw in the video, which we'll attach right now and I'll shut the hell up. You'll be able to watch that is how it lists the patient's number. You can just tap it and then call the patient. You can follow up on them, right?
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Josh Johnson:
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Yeah. The text that the patient will get is actually going to have the referred to office's name. You know, referred to office's phone number. Website. Also the reason for the referral. When they're trying to get ahold of the office that they've been referred to, it's actually the office's number, but that way the patient isn't having to look anything up. They just tap on it. It obviously sends it. Or if they don't know where the office is, they tap on the website, and of course, they'll be able to find information about the office there in terms of location and everything else.
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Howard Farran:
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Could you call the patient too?
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Josh Johnson:
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Once the referral is sent, the referred to office gets an email with that information, which is the same thing. You'd tap on it if you received it on your phone. It's in an email format. Then the triplicate of that is the referring out office gets that same email basically. All of that information would be in the emails to offices, but the patients generally get texts. Absolutely.
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Howard Farran:
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Well, you're a wickedly smart guy. That's just so common in dentistry when the dentist is bald. I notice that all the time from Pete Dawson to Josh Johnson of refer.to. T-O for Tonga ... Tonga? No, Tongo.
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Josh Johnson:
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Tonga, I believe. Yes.
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Howard Farran:
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Tonga?
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Josh Johnson:
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I think so.
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Howard Farran:
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Okay. Thank you so much for coming on my show today!
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Josh Johnson:
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I appreciate it Howard, thanks so much, I enjoyed the chat.
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Howard Farran:
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From a guy who's raised four boys, good luck with those two boys. Nine and seven, that's the whole meaning of life. I tell everybody my dentistry's a career. My four boys are my profession.
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Josh Johnson:
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You know what, we love it. It's fun to see them grow and do their fun stuff. It couldn't be better.
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Howard Farran:
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All right, Buddy. Then if you get lucky enough, they'll make you a grandchild one day. I got two grandchildren. Just keep that in mind.
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Josh Johnson:
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They're still kids, man, we'll just let them be kids.
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Howard Farran:
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All right. Take care.
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Speaker 3:
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Welcome to Refer.to What is refer.to? It's your new digital referral pad. No more need for expensive, hard to manage paper referral pads. Refer.to is an innovative, online referral system used to securely send referrals from any device to professionals and patients in an instant. Need to send a referral? Simply tap the convenient refer.to shortcut icon on any device in your practice. No need to stumble through browser bookmarks. Fill out the patient's information. Choose you're preferred delivery method. It's also simple to upload associated patient documents, x-rays, and images in the same step. Next, find the professional you'd like to refer your patient to in your easy to navigate directory. Hit send.
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It's that simple. And it's that secure. Referral information is sent instantly in an encrypted format, eliminating privacy concerns. That's it. The professional has been sent an email with associated files. Your patients receives a text message and/or email with the new professional's information. The convenience of the touch activated phone number and website makes following up on referrals quick and easy for the patient. Using refer.to will transform and simplify the way you make and receive referrals.
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Finding the right professional to refer your patient to is simple thanks to your easily customizable directory. This directory offers many search options, including the convenient 'favorites' feature that keeps your tried and true options at your fingertips. We make inviting other professionals to refer.to simple. Your professional network is accessible to you as it grows. Refer.to has two simple plans. The lite allows you to send referrals to other professionals. The plus plan allows you to send referrals, as well as receive them. Say good-bye to costly paper referral pads forever. Eliminate the cost of referral pads and the time needed to manage paper referrals. Making referrals has never been so simple, secure, and efficient. Refer.to is the modern standard in dental referrals. Join today.
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