Listen on iTunes
Stream Audio here:
|
AUDIO - HSP #179 - Deana Zost
|
Watch Video here:
|
VIDEO - HSP #179 - Deana Zost
|
Deana Zost is a walking, breathing example of what an office manager should be. Why does she do what she does, and what keeps her going and going?
Deana Zost, Dental Nerd/Office Manger/Vice President of the DFW Chapter of A.A.D.O.M, 2015 Scholarship Recipient to AADOM's National Conference in August 2015, Sunshine Spreader, Runner, Cyclist, Bikram Yoga Lover. I have enjoyed 24 years of caring for patients with some of the best people I've ever met. I have been so fortunate to learn every aspect of working in dentistry except being the dentist (but I do joke that "although I'm not a dentist, I play one on TV.) My joy comes from seeing so many people have life transformations due to the confidence and health that dental treatment has provided for them. My heart for people drives my love for jumping out of bed everyday. It's exciting because you never know who you are going to meet, what you are going to learn from them, and how you have the ability to change a patient's perception of dentistry. I love, love, love hearing how much patients love coming to our office-I hear many times "Wow, I never thought I would be so excited to come to a dental appointment!"
DeanaZost@aol.com,
Facebook:Deana Zost,
Twitter: Deana Zost
Website (office): http://www.heathermartinsondds.com/
Website (DFW AADOM):
http://www.dentalmanagers.com/dallasfort-worth-tx-chapter.htm
Cell # 817-983-3819
Office # 817-483-6699
Howard: It is a huge honor today to be interviewing what I consider the rock star dental office manager. If I can think of any high-energy, enthusiastic lady who just exudes karma, it's you. I really mean that from the bottom of my heart, Deana, and maybe that's because your mom named you after Dean Martin.
Deana: I think so.
Howard: Are you the female dental version of Dean Martin?
Deana: I am, but I don't drink scotch or smoke. Yeah, I think so.
Howard: How old was he when he died?
Deana: Was he in his 70s? I think he was in his 70s.
Howard: Because a lot of those guys, it turns out, that was just their persona, like George Burns, you know, he only smoked a cigar when he was on stage. How old was he? He died in 1995, we're hearing.
Anyway, Deana, I want you to address this issue, because you're talking to thousands of individual dentists. Podcasts have exploded, because it's a multitasking behavior. Most every single dentist who emails me says they love the podcast, and it's their commute to work. Almost entirely the commute to work. You think a commute would be in Los Angeles or Phoenix, but it's actually in rural America too. Most of these dentists live an hour away from their practice. They just love it. I'm really passionate about these podcasts because I know what things make the best dentists and the worst, and the dentists who take 100 to 300 hours of CE a year, they're crushing it, so I'm hoping that with all these free podcasts on their iPhone that they can ... I'm releasing 2 a day, so they should be able to get 300 hours of CE for free in their car commuting.
But here's the other dilemma that I want you to talk about, is the fact that when you talk to dental consultants, all the successful offices where the dentist is doing a million and taking home $300K, $400K, they all use all the consultants. Then everybody that desperately needs it more than anyone doesn't use it. It's the same with your field, dental office managers. So many dentists who are miserable and say, "I don't believe in office managers," it's like, you don't believe in assistance, you don't believe in HR, you don't believe in marketing? What do you not believe in? They're sitting back, they're doing a root canal, thinking that if they find the 4th or 5th canal and do the perfect root canal, all their problems will go away.
I wanted to start off with you just addressing ... I believe half the dentists out there don't even believe in you. They're just ... They say, "I don't believe in office managers." What would you say to that dentist? They're driving to work. They're usually stressed out of their minds, not about their failing root canal, but everything else that they just refuse to address.
Deana: It's the definition of insanity. Let's think about that. If you're a rock star dentist, and you can do it all, please do it all. If you're doing it successfully, but what is it, you can be everything to everyone or nothing to no one. You need to have someone who's going to handle your team, the systems, the money. Be involved in the money, I'm just going to say that. But we want you creating tooth dust. That is my goal for a doctor. I can't go back and pick up a hand piece and create tooth dust, legally. You don't want me to. You need to have someone that can take that off of your plate, because your plate is already full.
Your plate is already full. You need to have a key person that's going to be sort of your right hand. Let us do what we know how to do, because if you have the right person connected with you in your practice, you are going to thrive. You are going to soar like never before, but you have to learn to let things go, and let someone who knows how to do it, I hate to say this, a little better than you do ... Let us do our job. Let us do it. Have an office manager. If anything, not the title, if you want an administrative assistant, or a practice administrator. I love Lisa Bradley. Call her the front desk lady. If you want the front desk lady ... Whatever the title may be, just have that person who can do that job for you, because you're great at being a dentist. You're not so great at running the front office.
Howard: What percent of the time, when a dentist realizes they need help, and they have their wife go in and do it, or their spouse ... What percent of the time would you say the spouse doesn't want to be there, isn't qualified for the job, and it's stress for all the staff, it's stress for the marriage, it's just a really bad idea? What percent of the time is it a bad idea versus a good idea?
Deana: It would probably be about 99.9%.
Howard: 99.9% good or bad?
Deana: Bad. That's why I'm saying, there is that 0.1% that it's okay, but every office I've been in has had a spouse. Most of them don't want to be there. They just don't. They want to ... They have their own interests. They have their own things they want to do, and I'll be honest, if I had a husband who was a dentist ... Well, I don't know, with me I might want to work in the practice, but if I wasn't in dentistry, I would not want to work with my husband all day. I just wouldn't. There's no-
Howard: If you're driving to work today, you just got to walk ... And your office manager is your wife, I jut want you to go to work and man up, or wife up if it's your husband, I know a lot of husbands that are there now too, that's really changing, and say, "Seriously, if you weren't married to me, would you want this job? Would you like this job? Are you into this job?" If your spouse says, "Hell, no," then it is completely dysfunctional to have her in there. Granted, I know ... Some of the, like Rick DePaul in [inaudible 00:06:17], his wife's greater than he is. [inaudible 00:06:25] at CAA, she's the one who made Gordon Christian. Gordon Christian wouldn't be anybody if he would have married 99% of the other women in [inaudible 00:06:31]. Behind superstar men, sure, there are some successful spouses, but my gosh, people, time, and money is everything, and people is 80% of it, and you can't have any employees in your office who don't want to be there.
Deana: That's true, and your spouse is included. You know, Rick is one, and Gordon. They are the exception to the rule, and that's when if you have a spouse, like again, if I were married to a dentist, yeah, okay, I would want to be in his practice, because I love what I do, but if I wasn't, no way. Why would you want to suck your spouse into something that they absolutely cannot stand? I would hate to go home with that person. Think about it.
Howard: Who is the greatest preacher in the United States? Who is that, he's about 80 years old right now, he's still alive ... Billy Graham.
Deana: Billy Graham, yeah.
Howard: Billy Graham. He had one of the most interesting interviews to explain an office manager. He was on Larry King one show, and Larry King said, "Come on, Billy, there's almost 20,000 towns in America. Every town has a dozen churches. You're all reading the same book, the Bible. How did you become a superstar? Why are you the top guy, and not all these other great people that preaching too?" And he says, "Man, it's real easy," he says, "when I started my church, the first thing I did is I knew I was going to be a full time preacher, full time reading the Bible, preaching, all this stuff, and I needed, I would be the outside man, and I needed an inside man. So I went and found me an inside man and I said, 'Look, I'll preach and you're not, and you do your job and I'm not going to do it.'"
And the guy came up to him after about 2 or 3 months, he said, "Billy, on our new church, do you want it to seat 100 or 200?" And Billy says, "If you're seriously asking me, I need to get rid of you and go find someone else, because the answer to that question is your department. It's not in the Bible." So they separated their duties, and they're rock stars. I have the same thing in my ... I've had my same assistant, Jan, for 27 years. Lori's been my office manager, right hand man, everything, for almost 20 years. They completely work all day long on their job, and I work completely all day long on my job, and I barely ... Dentists barely have time to figure out all these root canals, fillings, crowns. You have to refer some. You can't even learn all the dentistry, so how are you going to be the office manager and run the business? How are you going to run a million dollar business when you can't even learn all the dentistry?
Deana: Learn the dentistry. May I ask you, what would you do if you didn't have these great people around you? Even if someone's missing for a day, if someone's sick or on vacation, don't you kind of get a little tense on the inside? That just is your comfort, that's your team, and they're your comfort level.
Howard: When people ask me, they say, "Dude, you're 53, when do you think you'll retire?" And I say, "I'm going to quit an hour before Jan or Lori quits." When they email me that they're quitting, I'm not going to reply. I'm going to send my resignation to them.
Deana: You're gone.
Howard: Yeah. It's just everything. I keep saying this over and over and over, but Harvard Business Review keeps showing that when they study the top 10% CEOs versus the bottom 10%, the number 1 outstanding variable is humility. Not accreditation, diplomas, anything like that. I see a lot of, when the spouse is the office manager and she doesn't want to, she's walking on egg shells around her husband who doesn't ... If she tells him what he doesn't want to hear, then it's going to be dysfunctional and crazy, and I can't tell you, almost every single seminar I've ever done, some staff will walk up to me and say, "Will you talk about this, because my doctor does this, and he won't do that," and I'll say, "What does he say when you say that to them?" "Oh, God, I would never say that. I'd probably be fired."
Every lab man tells me the same thing. All the million dollar practices, they can call back and say, "Deana, that prep, I don't have enough occlusion, I don't have enough reduction," you know, "I need [inaudible 00:10:36]," and they're like, "Okay, sorry dude, blah blah blah." All the miserable practices, they're afraid to say anything, because if they say anything they're going to lose the whole account. You have to have humility. Your staff can't fear you, so they can walk up to you and tell you bad news and you're not going to shoot the messenger.
Deana: That's true, and it's funny because I was in Nashville a few weeks ago for the ADOM national conference, and was really blessed, I got asked to be a facilitator for one of their, the first live, open forum, and it was on social media, SEO. I had a group of girls from Florida. We were all talking about their social media and what everyone is using and how they're doing it, and their question to me was, "Would you help us figure out how to get the social media from the spouse, from the wife of the dentist, because she's not doing anything with it. We're not growing our social media presence. We've gone to the doctor, and he says, 'Oh, no, I can't help you with that. That'll just make her mad. It'll piss her off.'" They said, "Could you help us?" I thought, "Okay. Let's try this." I said, "Why don't you just go to her? Does she come in the office?" "Oh, no, never." "Can you call her on her cell phone? Just call and say, 'Hey, we would love to help you help our social media. Is there something we could take off your plate?'"
Always go to somebody with a benefit. Can we do this for you? They're like, "Oh, no, we can't do that." I said, "Well, then, I hate to say this, but you're kind of up the creek without a paddle, if you can't go to her, and if he won't talk to her ... It's his practice." I love that they were passionate enough, first of all, to be at that conference, but second of all, to try to find a solution to a problem where it's the dentist and the spouse. I just told them kindly, I said, "You guys are awesome. Anybody would be so lucky to have you as team members, but if you've already done this, and they're both hands off and don't want to talk about it, let his social media go down the tank. There's nothing you can do. Maybe one day it will become important."
But yeah, having a spouse ... If they get along, like Dr. Martinson, her husband Myran is a retired pilot with American Airlines. He'll come in ever so often, do a couple things, and he's out. I love him. He's so laid back. He's like, "I don't want to do anything. I'm just going to come do my few things she's got for me, and I'm out of here." It's the best kind of spouse. He knows he doesn't want to be there. He wants to enjoy retirement. That's what he's doing, and anything more than that, you're damaging your practice. Think about that in the long run.
Howard: You know how you're a member of the American Academy of Dental Office Managers?
Deana: Yes.
Howard: You should start your own group, and it should be called the American Academy of Dental Office Therapists, Psychologists, and Psychiatrists, because whenever I ... I seriously believe half the dentists in America, their limit to their growth is their own self. Their problems are all in between their ears, and who knows how they were raised or shaping or wiring, and I just have seen so many dentists take a dive or get better when they started therapy so they could talk functional to their staff, so they can get rid of dysfunctional relationships, they can build a productive team, et cetera.
What do you want to talk about today? What do you think makes you a rock star dental office manager?
Deana: I don't know. I think I'm just the biggest dork ever. I love dentistry. I think it is just-
Howard: If I was born with teeth like yours, I would love dentistry too. I almost have to put on my sunglasses just looking at you.
Deana: I get these from my dad, so I can't ... Somebody asked me at Walgreens one day, they turned around and said, "Wow, you have great teeth! Who did them?" And I said, "God?" I said, "I have a great dentist, let me give you her card." So thank you, thank you very much. I think I'm off of the shade chart. I think I'm a level off of it.
Howard: You know, that sells a lot of dentistry, a dental officer. I remember when our first invisiline cases were all on the staff and the receptionist, the assistant, people would say, "Really? Can you wear them at work?" And they say, "Well, I'm wearing mine now." I remember one time I had a 62 year old receptionist, and I think the only reason she took the job was she wanted ortho. We had her in full ortho, and when you walk in there and you're 40 and you're like, "I'm too old for ortho," and the 60 year old receptionist is sporting full ortho ... I think, in fact, when bleaching came out, you know what we used to do? I used to have all the staff always wear bleaching trays on their upper, and not their lower, and then they would just smile, and the upper was like your shade, and the lower was like yellow-brown.
Deana: So you could see it.
Howard: Yeah.
Deana: Oh my God, that makes me think of when I first started assisting 25 years ago, 24 years ago. Remember when you had to mix the bleach, the powder and the solution? Oh my God, things have changed.
Howard: I think it started with Omni, out of Arkansas, and yeah, I can still remember and I knew, it was just amazing, came by with 6 bottles and it was $900. I think his name was Dave Keating or something. He actually lived like 2 blocks from my house, and it was Omni. Then I found out it was the same glycol at Walgreen's for like $2.69, and they were selling it for $900, so I was actually going to Walgreen's, and the managers got to saying, "You're buying all of our inventory," and I said, "Well, order me some cases."
Deana: Get some more, get some more.
Howard: Because it was cheaper, just those little bottles. It was amazing. But yeah, come a long way.
Deana: It has, but I think what I love the most, and what makes me a rock star, and thank you, those are very kind words, I love being a part of a patient story. I love ... I have seen over the years people come in, and they're talking like this, and they're covering their mouth, and I've never had that experience. I've never not been able to smile, and not feel good about my smile. To see a patient go from very shy and timid, and I've had patients cry, I don't know what it is about me, but they just tell me everything. They cry, and it's okay. I'm okay.
I had one patient one time, she was so nervous, she was sweating. I've never seen anybody sweat like that unless they were in Bikram yoga. She had a wash cloth, and she's wiping herself off, and she kept apologizing, and my desk was covered. I just stopped what I was doing, I grabbed her hands, and told her it was okay. It's okay to be this nervous. If that's how you express your nervousness, I'm okay with that. It's not up to me to say it's right or wrong. I said, "It's just sweat. I can wipe it up."
It's being a part of taking either their smile somewhere where they want it, to give them confidence, because if somebody is confident about their smile, about the way they look, how they feel is different. You never know if that timid, shy person has never gone after their goals or their dreams or what their real, true gifts are in this world, and I know I sound hokey and kind of out there, but you become a part of that. You give them that confidence to go out. They're going to go spread their gifts in this world. That's huge. Dentists are the rock stars. Dentists are the super heroes. You have that gift to give every day. That's why I love what I do.
Howard: The patient comes in, and they just zero in on that one broken teeth. We're talking about trends. What are the most successful? They take 100 to 300 hours of CE a year. They're addicted to consultants. They see every consultant that if I give this person a dollar, before the end of the year I'll probably get $1.10 back minimum. They always see that, but another thing is, because they know that if you feel good about your teeth, it's the difference between the dentist who diagnose and treatment plan full mouth dentistry, and that's about 5%, and then the people who think they're doing full mouth dentistry, but the next 20% will diagnose quadrant dentistry, and then 75 out of 100 just diagnose that tooth. Why is that doctor, why are you all thrilled about, "Let's get you all fixed up," and they're thinking, "He just has this one broken tooth. We'll just fix that, and that'll max out our insurance for 2015, and we'll just do 1 tooth dentistry." How do you get him to psychologically, or her psychologically, to have the enthusiasm and say, "Oh my God, let's just get you all fixed up?"
Deana: I don't work for doctors like that, but what you can do is realize, if you're only out to do one tooth at a time, good luck, because there's a lot of dentists out there who're going to help that patient. If that's all you want for your practice, have fun. Good luck. Go for it. But people want more. You need to ask them. When that patient's sitting in your chair, I don't care if they're a new patient or they've been with you 25 years, continually ask them, "Are you happy with your smile?" Because if you don't ask, they're probably not going to say anything. Ask them. You are going to change somebody's life.
But there are dentists out there who are one tooth wonders, and that's all they want to do. I can cheer them on and want to say, "Let's get this done," and I might be able to motivate a few, but my goal is to ... How can I put this? My goal is for them to light the fire under their own ass to want to do it, and just cheer them on as they do it.
Howard: So you've got this dentist, and they're adverse selection, because the only way you get into dental school or medical school or law school is you have to have straight As. When you're in college, if you're well-rounded, you have a girlfriend, you join a frat, you make As, Bs, and Cs, you might as well be a business major because you're not going to med school, dental school, law school. The adverse selection, they've collected all these scientists, engineer, physicists, dentists, who have ... I thought it was normal to sit in the library every night til midnight. I just thought all normal people sat in a library til midnight, and I thought if I got As in calculus and geometry and trig, I'd have all the answers in the universe, and then I found out after I got my dental degree that it was just a big scam, and I've never used any of the information I learned for 9 years of college.
I want you to go through specifically, here's this scientist sitting at the chair, fantasizing about bonding agents, and here's this patient with disease. Do you think it's better ... What do you think's easier? Try to get this dentist to become a salesperson, and the only way you can sell is if you make the other person ... Can you still hear me?
Deana: Yeah, I can hear you.
Howard: Okay. The only way you can sell anything, according to research, is you got to make the other person secrete dopamine or serotonin. You got to make them feel good, and if what you're saying, like you said earlier, is a benefit to them, and they start secreting oxytocin and serotonin and they feel good about themselves, they're like, "Ahhh," they'll just throw all their money at you, and they're going to throw all their money away every month anyway. Americans spend about 103% of earnings every year. They just dig deeper and deeper in debt. Do you think it's easier to get that scientist dentist to do this, or would you just say, "Forget that, I'm putting all my money on developing a treatment plan coordinator, and we'll let the dentist diagnose all this stuff, and then we'll give the sheet to someone who sells, and karma, like you, pretty, and exudes enthusiasm, and gets the patient to light a fire in their ass"? What would you advise?
Deana: That's a really good question to ask. I would go for just encouraging the dentist. I can be honest without being ugly. You got to be a little more personable. You got to talk to your patients. You got to treat them like people. Yeah, I know you see teeth, you see 1 through 32, you see soft tissue. You've got to realize, there's a whole body and soul behind that person. Try to connect with them. I could coach somebody into making that connection. Even if it's one small thing, I think a really good office manager, practice administrator, front desk lady, you got to be able to have those honest conversations with your doctor. If you see something, they're not connecting, this is not going on, say, "Hey, we got to change this up just a little." Even if they're the most introverted doctor ever, have that conversation. Get them out of their comfort zone a little bit. Remind them that's where the magic happens. I don't know. Use whatever phrases, verbs, nouns, adjectives. Go for it.
But if you're a dentist, and you know that's not your strong point, you know that's not your comfort level, you know you'll give a little but you can't give a lot, you better have somebody like me who is really encouraging that patient, because you could work well. Opposites attract. You could work well together, with a dentist like that.
Howard: You dentists out there listening to me right there, remember, you have to be sincerely interested in the patient, and once you can fake sincerity, the world is your oyster.
Deana: That's true. That's how you make it.
Howard: Because I believe the dentists got the lucky hand. I don't think you can train an extrovert to be quiet.
Deana: No.
Howard: But you can train an extrovert to be on stage. So now, doctor introvert, you're on stage. You walk into the laboratory, you're on stage, and you can fake being a movie star. There's a lot of famous movie stars that have been written about, that off the stage they were painfully introvert, painfully shy, almost lived reclusive lives. You can fake extrovert, karma, enthusiasm, and you can be ... You can fake Broadway.
Deana: If you have to practice it, practice it. We, in team meetings, we'll practice our verbiage on the phone, how we're handling new patient phone calls, our treatment planning. Doctors, have your team hold you accountable. Practice being on stage. It sounds goofy, but it's easier to do in a safe environment with your team, and then you go out and you practice a little bit with your patients. But you do need to be sincere, because people can tell when you're BSing, so try to practice and get good at it before you go for it.
Howard: Deana, I want to ask you the hardest question for you today. The most important question today is, every single office, I would say 90% of the offices that you go in there, this is the main problem that people like you, as an office manager, address, and that is the dentist, after they've done their root canal, they go back in their office and they shut the door, and then they leave and go back in another room and do another root canal and blah blah blah, and there's dysfunction in the staff. Then when this one assistant or hygienist [inaudible 00:26:30] be all fired up and be on stage and making karma and serotonin and dopamine, she actually isn't, because she's upset, because there's drama going on with another staff member, and it never gets addressed. The doctor lives in the private office. He's in there staring at a rubber dam.
I want you to go to, the football team isn't going to win unless you've got great players, and they all play nicely in the sandbox. This dentist right now driving to work, I know my homies. I do. I know my dentists. I've lectured to them. After 3 decades, I better have learned something, you know what I mean? They're driving to work. I don't even think half of them even know the dysfunction that's going on in their office. Can you describe some red flags that maybe this geek dentist driving to work saying, "Oh, well, maybe that is going on," describe red flags that there's team dysfunction, and then, how do you correct team dysfunction, and how do you know ... The hardest decision a dentist tells me I ever have to make is, do I fire my assistant because of all this, or do I develop her? How do you know when to pull the plug on someone? Paint pictures, because this guy doesn't even know the level of dysfunction in there.
Deana: I hate to say this, because I really don't want to offend anybody-
Howard: Oh, please, you're on the Howard, you're on Dentistry Uncensored. My gosh.
Deana: Just because I've been married twice, I can say this. Men cannot read your mind. You're not mind readers, so we as women need to realize that. I just say that in general, because even though there are female dentists, male dentists, I've noticed, in my career, female dentists tend to pick up on the drama, the dysfunction, and they tend to nip it in the bud. It's just like that. That's just my experience. I'm sure there are other scenarios out there.
Men cannot read our minds, and usually, can't read our body language or anything like that. I'm just saying that, in my experience. If you're going into your office, you probably have no idea that there is just cat fights going on. I'm going to give you some clues. If you're sitting in morning huddle, and everybody's really, really quiet, and no one's looking at each other, red flag. There's a problem going on. If one person's coming to complain to you about the other, and then the other's coming to complain, and you don't handle it, that's your own red flag. It's so hard to explain different scenarios, but if you'll go in with a cognizant mind of, "Okay, let me look at people's body languages" ... You've got arms crosses and looking down, and people are just kind of glaring their eyes up, red flag.
My advice would be to be comfortable in having open and honest conversations, and just tell everyone, "This is a safe environment, team meeting, what's the problem?" Dentists, you're going to have to not just put the problem on the wrong. Don't sweep it under the rug and act like it's not there, because again, what it ultimately hurts is your practice. I was in a practice last week, and I'll give you this scenario because it's a really good one. I was in a practice last week. They asked me to come in to talk to them about some marketing, and doing some fee for service things.
When I walked in, I am just 2 feet into the door, and I'm like, "Oh." I could feel just the negative vibes coming over me. I walked, I was asked to come on back, and I stood and kind of watched everybody go up and down the hall, and nobody's talking, nobody's looking, they're all looking down. The sweet dentist, hair a mess, rubbing the face, just frustrated, up and down the hall. I'm looking, and I'm like, let's say I'm a new patient, and I just happened to drop in because I want to schedule an appointment. I can feel the drama, without anybody saying anything at all. That was one thing that I said to this doctor. I said, and I was honest, I'm like, "What's going on today? Is today a tough day? Is today rough? Is there anything out of the ordinary going on?" "No, not really." "Okay, if this is normal, we need to flip it to abnormal. We need to have a different vibe."
As I pointed out things to the team, I pointed it out, and I asked, I'm like, "Can I be really honest? Because I'm sure that's what you want." I pointed to the cutting the eyes, the looking down, the body language, and no one, really, had picked up on it. This was a full female team, so this was not the norm. When I pointed it out, and I said, "Be honest. What's going on? Is there a problem between 2? Is there a problem altogether?" As people began to talk, and I told them, I'm like, "I'm the safe zone. You can say anything, because I'm here. We can mediate. We can talk about this," people began to talk. "So-and-so's doing this, so-and-so's doing that." This had been building for, like, years. I'm thinking, "My God."
By the time I was done, I gave them a little bit of positive, some tips, and said I would be back. They were all walking me out to my car. I thought at that moment I was going to be kidnapped and stuck up on a wall. They're like, "Can you come back tomorrow, just to cheer us up and down the hall?" I said, "My goal is for you guys to get out of this mode you're in, and cheer each other on, because you can do it." Be mindful of ... It's not anything anybody really wants to address. You don't want to go into work and think, "Ugh, I've got to have a talk with her, and it's so hard," or, "I've got to have a talk with him and it's so hard." Have that talk. No matter how hard it is, it's going to be harder 6 months from now.
If you have that assistant who's been with you, your patients love her, she makes these temporaries, or she can get this done, and you're like, "God, that's better than what I can do" ... If she's dragging your team down, you'd better have a talk with her. Set those expectations. Give her a time frame to step up, or she needs to step out. That's it.
Howard: You know, it's funny, because so many women dentists will say to me, they'll say, "I started working with this man, and he would give orders and they would just jump and do this and do that, and then after a year I bought the practice from him, and then I started saying those same things, they wouldn't do it. I would give them the order, and they'd say, 'Well, blah blah,'" and they would think that's a negative. They'd say, "How do I be able to do it like a man?" I said, "No. That negative is your best asset. They feel safe with you, so they're sharing their feelings with you," and I'll tell you, you know who the best staff leaders are I've seen? Women, just like you said, because they're intuitive, and the staff feels safe with them, so they talk, and gay dentists. Gay male dentists. I mean, they have some of the best karma office I've ever seen, because they're just, I think gay men are so much more intuitive to feelings and peoples and humans. It's just amazing. It's all the people stuff that matters.
How does this dentist develop staff leadership skills? What would you recommend?
Deana: I would recommend, first of all, finding some CE, finding some courses, going on Dentaltown. What can you connect with to help you? Because you're not going to just learn it on your own. You're just not. Get in touch with your feminine side. It sounds weird, but do it. You are in ... Most times, more times than not, you're in an office full of women all day long, and usually on the same hormone cycle all month long. I'm saying, what is it, fight or flight? You can't leave your own practice. You can't leave all of them there. It's your practice. Be in tune with what's going on, and you've got to be in touch with that personal, nurturing side. It's not going to be your favorite thing if it's not already, but you have to do it. Find a course. Read some books. You've got to figure out the psychology of what's going on with people.
It's not just a feminine thing. It's a people thing. If you need to, get a coach. Get a consultant, a coach, somebody in your office. If you're not comfortable with having those conversations, find someone who can come in and facilitate that with you, and help you with that. That would be huge. That would be a huge thing to do.
Howard: It's funny, and they'll go to all these institutes that teach implants and bone grafting and CAD/CAM. I mean, CAD/CAM is the perfect symbol for dentistry, because it's a robot. Deep down inside, the dentist wants to be a robot. He just wants to sit there and do math equations and program a CAD/CAM, and he thinks that's the key to success. It's all the soft stuff. It's all ... Another red flag, I would say, is when you're on Dentaltown, you can add up 203,000 dentists members, you can't get 5 of them to agree on anything.
Deana: No.
Howard: So when you're in your dental office, and you tell a team of 5, say you've got a hygienist, 2 assistants, et cetera, and every time you tell 5 women something, they all agree ... That's a huge red flag. If they felt safe, if they felt like you cared, like I feel like I can say this and you're not going to fire me or get mad or pout or be crazy and all that, if you told your office you're going to do something, it should be at least 3 to 2. Look at every Supreme Court decision. Even on something like civil rights, or some huge move, it's always like a 5 to 4 vote, and they're looking at the same constitution, they're the same age, they're all in law school. The Supreme Court can't even ... I can't even remember the last 9 to 0 decision they've ever had, but your staff is always unanimously voting with you? That's a red flag.
Deana: That's a flag.
Howard: They don't feel safe. I mean-
Deana: That's true.
Howard: I remember when I told Jan that we were going to buy a CEREC machine, she goes, "That's the dumbest," she goes, "That's the dumbest idea you've ever had, and that's saying something for you, because you've had a million dumb ideas." She feels safe. I'm like, "Jan, what's wrong?" She goes, "You're going to spend $150,000 on a machine, and this place is decorated like it's IKEA or Walmart. We need to remodel this thing. You built this thing in 1994, and when I go to a rocking hot cosmetic surgeon or a plastic surgeon or someone doing tummy tucks and boob jobs and face lifts, it doesn't look like IKEA like this place does." She wanted me ... I ended up buying the CAD/CAM anyway, because I wanted it, but I spent an additional $75,000 on a remodel.
I'm a man from Kansas. I literally was born in a barn. I am a hick. I can't call myself trailer trash, because I'm actually barn trash from Kansas. Our pedigree wasn't rich enough to have trailer, and so I never saw the office the way Jan did. When there was a remodel and everything, yeah, it looked like a nice home or something, but it didn't do anything for me, but it made her feel rocking hot and good and karma and all that stuff. They got to feel safe. They're not talking to you.
Deana: You got to get out of the mode of it's a dictatorship. It really needs to feel more like a democracy. Your team needs to feel as though they are practicing with you, and those great team members will say to you, I know everything that I do, I feel like my name is on the door. Everything I do is a reflection of the practice. Ask them questions. Ask them about the practice. Ask them if they have ideas about how to help the practice grow. What could we have done better with that patient? What could I have said better? When you really start involving them, they start stepping up even more, and becoming even more of a rock star team. It's really cool to see that dynamic go on and happen. Just remember, even though it's your practice and you are the owner, and you're the dentist, start treating it more like a democracy instead of a dictatorship.
That's a great red flag. If they are all agreeing, I'm sorry, you can't get 5 women to agree on the same thing, just like you can't get 5 dentists to. You'll have 5 dentists and 1 patient, and there's 5 different treatment plans. Women all have our own opinions, and rarely are they all exactly the same. Even though birds of a feather flock together, everyone will go, "That's a great idea, but what if we add this? Or what if we change that?" Keep in mind, and let everybody know, you have to say these words: "This is a safe environment. This is our safe zone." I always call my office, "This is a circle of trust, so come on in and let's say what we have to say." You'll find that they'll begin to trust and say more. It's better.
Howard: The dentist should know this, because I swear to God, if you go into the bar with 6 dentists, every single time, you just ask, and they all do root canals, you say, "Are you an [inaudible 00:40:31] barbarian? Do you like to get that root canal all the way to the end with a puff of sealer out the end? Or are you a pulp lover, and like to stop a half millimeter short to, you know, and be nice to that tissue, and all that?" It's always 50/50. Every person listening to this that does root canals, they can't even agree on where the damn root canal should stop. Why are all your staff agreeing with you?
It's the same thing, and I think the dentists should also do this, I think when a dentist goes to work, you should tell your staff, "Look, I may come off as a scientist, engineer, whatever, but I want dissenting opinion. This is like the Supreme Court. When they write up the opinion, and then they give the dissenters, one of them, and they say, 'Okay, you're going to write the dissent,' and they rip them a new one and why this is the worst judgement ever on the Supreme Court, and we want dissenting opinions, and I want you to feel safe." Then, doc, I want you to pick up that phone and call your lab man, and say, "Hey, I don't know what you, you're not inside my head, you may be reading me wrong, but seriously, dude, I want you to feel safe to tell me that I'm not good."
When I was doing that in '87, '88, I remember the first time I said that, he was an old German guy, his name was Wolfgang, and he said, "Well on that note, you need to come down here immediately." He walked me down all these incoming impressions with my impressioning, showing me how ... Basically, it was self-esteem building, because you could tell, like on a removable partial denture, 95% of the dentists just send an impression. They don't even make 1 [inaudible 00:42:05]. They don't even go in there and ... So 95% of them didn't even give a shit enough to pick up a hand piece and do anything to the tooth. They just write, "lower partial denture." They didn't, you know, and maybe a shade. No one's [inaudible 00:42:20].
But by him knowing that he was safe, and plus I was like 24 and he was like 64, and I learned so much, because I put out the message that I want to learn. I'm humble. You're safe. Tell me what it is, because those lab men will call the office and they'll talk to the receptionist, and then this is what they usually hear: "Well, the assistant's not going to tell him. I'm not going to tell him. Do you want to tell him?" And he's like, "No, I don't want to lose the account," and they're like, "All right, we'll do the best we can." That dentist thinks he's a good dentist.
Deana: I have to tell you, I'm kind of a virtual coach slash office manager for a great practice in Arizona, and just kind of helping them with systems. They have a great office manager. Kind of coaching her, and she's fantastic. What I love about the doctor is, before I got to talk to you today, I was facetimed in on their team meeting, and it's really fun. They call me the Floating Head, because I'm usually on an iPad, so my head floats around the office with them. What I love that this doctor said was, they're working on a few things, like the hand off, handing off the patient from the clinic to the front office. He said, "I am not perfect." What? He said, "I am not perfect. I need for you guys to help me. If I miss a step, or I fail to say what I would like to see the patient back for."
I said, "You are going to be an amazing dentist. Your career is going to be fantastic." Because he has asked his team ... First of all, he told them he's human. He's not 100% perfect and everything he says and does is absolutely the absolute. I love that he asked his team, "Help me be accountable. Can you help me be accountable?" Wow. Wow.
Howard: What if one of my listeners wants to facetime you? What she's talking about, if you have a Samsung ... You can only do it on iPhone, right?
Deana: iPhone, I think, but I have Skype too, of course.
Howard: Yeah, but I love iPhone, because when you go around the world, your calls are free from the internet. But what if a dentist listening to you wants to talk to you? I know what they're thinking. They always think ... Anyway, what's the economic barrier entry? How can someone contact you to see if you'll take them on as a client? How does that work?
Deana: Just call me. Phone calls or facetime or Skyping. The first time we talk, there's no cost. Just tell me what you need.
Howard: Tell them what numbers.
Deana: Tell them numbers? Hmmm. Let's see. Depends upon the need. I'm less than a million dollars, I can tell you that.
Howard: No, I mean contact numbers. Phone numbers or emails or Skype.
Deana: Just call me. I'll give you my number. It is 817-983-3819, or you can Skype me at deanazost, it's D-E-A-N-A-Z-O-S-T.
Howard: It's D-E-A-N-A, it's spelled Deanna, but it's pronounced Deana.
Deana: It's pronounced Deana.
Howard: After Dean Martin.
Deana: Yes. As a matter of fact, it was so funny, I heard your podcast with [inaudible 00:45:45]. He isn't old enough to be my dad, but he is old enough to be my cool older brother. I know you asked if I was his daughter, and he texted me, he said, "God, you either look really young or I look really old."
Howard: Who was that?
Deana: It was Jack Hadley with my social practice.
Howard: Oh, Jack Hadley. You're his favorite client.
Deana: I love him.
Howard: Every time he shows up, anything he's doing for an office, you're always the pitch woman.
Deana: I love it.
Howard: So they can call you at 817-893-3819-
Deana: 983.
Howard: Okay. 817-983-3819.
Deana: Yeah.
Howard: Not only am I short, fat, and bald, but my vision's going too. I should always just leave my readers on. What about email?
Deana: Email is deanazost@aol.com. Very easy.
Howard: That's D-E-A-N-A Zost, so again, it's spelled Deanna but pronounced Deana Zost, Z-O-S-T. By the way, what kind of name is Zost? What kind of name starts with a Z?
Deana: It's German by way of France.
Howard: Really? German by way of France?
Deana: Yeah. It was French, but the Zosts were kicked out of France by, I think the Huguenots, and driven into Germany.
Howard: God, I love name origin. When you've gone to 50 countries, what's neat about it is, like when the first time, America, Canada, and England are just this genetic free-for-all melting pot. If somebody in America tells you they're Italian, just roll your eyes and laugh, because they're probably just ... Everybody in America is pretty much a mutt.
Deana: Right. That's true.
Howard: In fact, you know what America, when they voted on the constitution in 1776, English beat out German by 1 vote.
Deana: Wow.
Howard: Imperial math beat out metric by 2 votes. We were 3 votes away from speaking German on metric. Every single American that's been here 100 years has got so much English and German blood ... We're just all mutts.
Deana: We're Heinz 57.
Howard: Yeah. Then you have the Irish diaspora, where 5 million people left Ireland and half of them went here. Then we have the Mexican diaspora, where 10% of Mexico came here. But when you go to most countries, like Japan, they're all Japanese. Korea, they're all Koreans. Vietnam, they're all Vietnamese. Poland, 98% Polish. Then, the first time I went to Poland, you would look at their ... I would look at them. First thing I did was I called one of my friends from high school and said, "Dude, is there any chance you're Polish? Because I see people over here that look like they're you." They go, "Oh my God, our whole family's Polish! We're from Chicago, there's a million Polish in Chicago." Every time I've gone to any country that's like 95% that country, you start realizing, oh my God, my friend is that. Then you come back and ask them, and they're like, "Oh yeah, well, I've heard that at the dinner table. I don't even know."
Anyway, they can contact you, and the economic barrier to entry for the first call is $0.
Deana: Yeah, $0.
Howard: Describe ... Now I want you to describe, they're driving to work, what type of ... Some consultants have screw drivers, some have hammers, some have jig saws. What do you like to solve? What problems? Describe the problems in the office that this dentist driving to work on a treadmill, that you like to solve.
Deana: I like to solve scheduling problems. I like to solve gathering new patients. I like to solve verbiage. There's so many ... Again, go back to my friend Lisa Bradley, who I just absolutely adore. She said, "You have such a way with words," and I'm like, "No, I think I'm just a really good bullshitter, because I'm from Texas. I don't know." There's a way to say everything, even the really hard things. If you can teach that ... Not really scripting, but give ideas, you can help teams talk to each other. You can help them talk to their patients. You can help them talk to their doctor, in a way that is a really positive way. My goal is, obviously, everything we do, have a positive vibe. If you're not having fun at what you're doing, you're doing the wrong thing.
Howard: Okay, I want to pin you down on a detail though, because everyone knows what they know. They don't know what they don't know. We talked earlier about they have staff problems and they're oblivious to them. I personally believe, in the bottom of my heart, that 80% of dentists don't even know what a scheduling problem is. They think, if you need an hour and a half, there's an hour and a half, there it is. It's not rocket science. What is a scheduling problem?
Deana: A scheduling problem, to me, is do you have patients on your schedule that are meeting your daily goal? Are you happy with the treatment that you're scheduling? Are you doing comprehensive dentistry? Are you the one tooth wonder? Is your team able to express the importance of why that patient needs to come back and see you? Are you expressing that to the patient? Let's get that taken care of, because I can tell you, it's still a business. They know ... You dentists know it's a business. If you're not scheduling to goal, or above, every day, and you're just kind of coasting along, soon you're going to run out of coast, and you're going to hit a wall. There's expressing that importance to the patient, the need, and how can you make them want it? They know they need it. Now let's get the patient to want that. There's a way to do it. There's a way.
Howard: They're only going to want it, according to the most overfunded university ever in America, was the University of Chicago, Rockefeller died with 1.8% of the GDP, and he built the University of Chicago. They have more Nobel prizes in economics there. You're more familiar with other billionaires, like Stanford and Hopkins. They put their names on it, but Rockefeller didn't. They have the most Nobel prizes in economics. They say nobody will give you a dollar unless they have to, or because you made them happy by measurably secreting dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin. You have to make them enthusiastic ... Look at the hot real estate sales people. They pull up in a BMW and they get out and they're dressed all fancy, and they're like, "How you doing?" They're all walking you through the house-
Deana: They're happy.
Howard: They're just happy, and they get Mom all excited about the kitchen, and then they get Dad all excited about, "We'll get this financed, we'll figure out the date and the terms and everything," and they get the house moved. They know when they put a house on the market, if the kitchen is a deal breaker, stop now, remodel the kitchen, fix the kitchen, because I'm going to take her right in there, and just make her imagine she's cooking dinner for a party of 4, or 6, or 8, or throwing a dinner party, or whatever. There's just got to be that enthusiasm. I want to also ask you another thing. You said that the daily goal ... We talked about dentists who are successful doing 100 to 300 hours CE. They're addicted to consultants. They also have morning huddles. Every dentist I know that's miserable doesn't have a morning huddle. How can you have a daily goal if you don't have a morning huddle?
Deana: You can't have a day without a morning huddle. You want to be a proactive practice, not a reactive practice. What a daily huddle will do is make you proactive about your day. You're looking for opportunities. You're looking to say, "Oh, Mrs. Smith, her grandson just graduated from college. Remind me to congratulate her." You're looking for those opportunities to connect. You're looking for the opportunity to ask that patient, "You know what? You're such a joy to work on. Could you please send me 5 people that are cloned, that are just like you, because if I could work on people like you all day long, it would be my best day ever." You're looking for referrals. Your best patients come from your best patients. You are looking. It is like, your huddle is like your treasure chest. It's like your treasure hunt. You're finding good stuff.
I'm getting all fired up. You're finding good things about the day. If you want to spend all of your energy reacting to the hum drum, to the bad, to the oh my God, they canceled again ... Go for it. If that makes you happy, but I bet it doesn't. I bet it doesn't. Have those huddles. They can be short, they can be sweet. Everyone can bring their own thing to that huddle. They can have their own rock star moment in that huddle. That huddle will make your day.
Howard: Be specific to these dentists. How long does a huddle last? When is it scheduled, if you open at a clock, how long is a huddle? What are your goals in a huddle?
Deana: First of all, let's say you open at 8:00. Start your huddle at 7:40. Make it 10, 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be long. It does not have to be ... It could be 5 minutes. It's whatever you want. What you want to do, is you want to look at opportunities for that day. Look at your patients. Have the hygienist, the hygienist is going to have gone over her schedule or his schedule. Your assistants have gone over your schedule. They're like your coach. They are preparing you for what's about to happen. They have let you know, lab cases are here. They're going to let you know about personal things. So-and-so just graduated from college. Hey, so-and-so just had a baby. Congratulate them. Who are we going to ask for referrals from today? Who are we going to take that patient of the day picture and slap it on our Facebook, and let that thing go viral? You are making your plan. Who has treatment? Do we have some time? Can we slide them on over from hygiene and get that done?
Be proactive, because that 10 or 15 minutes, or 5, however long you want to do it, will give you more time in the long run. It is a great math. If you're not doing huddle, you better start. That's going to be ... That's number one. Plan your day. Give your team a task. Everyone has something to do. Check the schedule, check this, check that. The last thing you want to do is seat a patient, their lab case isn't here, oh, we forgot to do this, oh, we should have called them on it. Proactive means everything. It means everything.
Howard: I want to ask you another specific. If I had to ask, if someone asked me, who is the most networked office manager on earth, I'd have to say it's you. I don't think I've ever met an office manager who didn't know you. Facebook, you're everywhere. Here's the big question I want to ask you, if in all the offices you've seen, you think it's true, some offices, after the staff meeting, they all hook up with interoffice walkie-talkies. They swear by them. Other offices don't. Do you think the offices ... Do you think that's a good technique? A bad technique? What percent of offices do you say do that? Do you recommend that? What are your thoughts on ... You know what I'm talking about? The Motorola walkie-talkies?
Deana: Yeah. I've seen it work in great places. Dr. Nikki Green is a fabulous dentist here in Ft. Worth. Her office uses them, and it's fantastic. It's not intrusive. That's the key. If you have it on, and it is constantly intruding on a patient that's in front of you, or becomes too intrusive upon your day, that's a problem. Dr. Nikki Green does it beautifully. She does it beautifully. It's really funny, because she has, she's just put a lab in her office. I giggle with her girls, I'm like, "You're having to use these to find her, because she's back in the lab with the lab guy, because she's all excited about her cases." They can be used in a fantastic way, but you have to remember that human connection. When there's a person in front of you, that's your priority. I've seen maybe 50% of offices I've been in have used them. I really think that it's a great tool to use, but you have to limit your use of it. Does that make sense? You really have to ... You have to not forget that human connection, that person in front of you.
Howard: It's amazing, and the flip side of that being a dentist, is you know how annoying it is for me to be talking to a patient while they're reading their Facebook or texting or whatever? If it's a kid, I just put my hand over the screen and say, "Sorry, I don't want to bother you or anything, but you're in my dental chair. Can your Facebook hold?" But yeah ... Once we had one of those, we swear by ... It's funny, because 20 years ago, when you walked into IKEA or Walmart or Disneyland or a big deal, people were always running around, running around, running around, and now it seems like everywhere you go, whether it's Disneyworld, Disneyland, IKEA, you ask the store clerk a question, and they just PTT, push to talk, and they ask someone who's already in the warehouse, and they just ... "Man, I got it." Just seems like everything goes better.
I actually went paperless in 1999. I told my staff, the year 2000 we would be paperless. I didn't do it because of my love for computers or any of the technology. I did it because it seemed like every time I walked out of a room, someone was looking for a chart. I said, "You know, the only thing I'm going to find all the charts is to get rid of all of them." There's always a lost chart. We went paperless just to get rid of the lost chart. I did the walkie-talkie just so that someone wouldn't have to run around 8 different operatories asking the same question.
Deana: Being paperless is ... I can't imagine having a chart. Just from a time, I don't want to say time management, I think time management is a joke, and in my opinion, time management does not exist. You can't manage time. We all get the same 24 hours in a day. It marches along the same. You can only manage yourself within that time, so I think it's more people management. Anyway, that's my definition.
Howard: I don't want to get ... We're out of time. It's 1 hour. I'm done, but I want to ask one personal question that you don't even have to answer, but I believe ... Because I know you, I feel I know you very well. It is, I believe a lot of dentists can't go in there and give 110%, because their physical unit isn't 110%. They're tired. They don't exercise. They eat wrong, whatever. You're a rock star yoga master, runner, jogger, whatever. How important, how much of a part of you showing up for work and being able to crush it, is because you take care of yourself with yoga and running? How important do you think that is in your success?
Deana: It's everything. I am a better mother. I am a better woman. I am a better office manager. I'm a better friend. I'm a better boss. I'm a better everything, because I take that time for myself. I take care of myself. You know what? When you expend more energy, you create more energy. It just happens. I've had people say, "Are you really this happy all the time?" No, I have my moments. We all do. But I have less of those moments, because I know that I'm at my best and I'm at my optimum performance, when I take care of me. Your body's a machine. You got to do it.
Howard: Specifics. What do you do? I know you do yoga. In a 7 day period, what is your workout routine?
Deana: I usually do 3-6 miles of running. I'll do cycling twice a week, and then try to do yoga 2-3 times a week. I'll take one off day, and I'll do hand weights, arm weights, work on things like that, but I need to do something every day. If I don't, I just feel blegh.
Howard: I had really bad neck issues from holding my head over. You know, your head's a 10 pound bowling ball, and I did that direct vision thing. I started doing Bikram yoga, and it was like, gone after the first class. I know a dentist who, before he got double carpal tunnel syndrome surgery, realized he hadn't done a push up in 10 years. What would happen if he just put his hand against the floor and started doing some push ups? He went from like 3 push ups, and in 100 days he was up to like 50 push ups. He never had to get the carpal tunnel syndrome, or any of that stuff. So much of your back pain, neck pain, low energy, not having karma, is because they show up to work with a Starbucks coffee, and they're tired and they're not refreshed. It seems like all the dentists who just show up ready to like, Godzilla, are people like you who got up, ran, bike, swim, yoga, spin class, something, and you show up to work ready to go.
Deana: You're ready to go. Your blood is flowing. You are pumped. You're ready. By 9:00 at night, I'm toast, but I've given ... I get up early, and I get that done, because I know what I feel like if I don't get up early and do it. I would much rather be me.
Howard: What time do you get up, and what time does your dental office see patients, what time do you get there, what time do you get up?
Deana: I get up at 4:15 in the morning, and work by 7:30, and home usually by 5, 5:30.
Howard: How long's your workout then? 30 minutes, 40, an hour?
Deana: It's usually an hour, hour and 20 minutes. Depending upon if I'm mixing some things up, yeah.
Howard: Hey, every time I will ever think of Dean Martin again, I'll think of you-
Deana: Think of me!
Howard: And instead of a martini, I'll think of you and a hot Bikram yoga class. Deana, seriously, thank you so much for all that you do for dentistry, all that you do for Dentaltown, all that ... In fact, some day I hope that you put up an online CE course on Dentaltown.
Deana: I would love to. I'm going to work on that.
Howard: I think you should create an hour course, and I'll just end on one word, is everybody that needs a consultant will never get one, and everybody who's taking home $3, $400,000 a year and loves going to work and loves their team, they're addicted to consultants, they're addicted to CE, they always have a morning huddle. I mean, success can be copied.
Deana: Yes, it can. Yes, it can. It's there. It's there.
Howard: On that note, Deana, thank you again for spending an hour with me.
Deana: Thank you!
Howard: All right, bye-bye.
Deana: I loved it. Bye!
Howard: Bye, have a great day.